Allow us to boil water with tapidizer

[Sasza22]

4 hours ago, Nightinggale said:

The problem with unlocking the tepidizer is that it delivers enough heat to make steam turbines produce 3977 W while it only consumes 960 W. This means it is possible to build a powerplant, which produces electricity without any fuel.

It could just become much less effective when reaching 100^oC. So that you can get close to boiling easy but getting steam won`t be effective enough to power a turbine.

[Nightinggale]

3 minutes ago, Sasza22 said:

It could just become much less effective when reaching 100^oC. So that you can get close to boiling easy but getting steam won`t be effective enough to power a turbine.

I thought of that. However the code in this regard is fairly simple using only standard code. It has power usage and heat buildup as fixed values. To make it deliver different amount of heat energy depending on the current temperature would require custom code. Sure it's doable, but it would require a lot more coding time and is far less trivial.

[KittenIsAGeek]

On 2/21/2019 at 11:45 PM, Technoincubus said:

What is the reason to forbid water boiling by tapidizer? Why force players to invent huge installations for such a simple task as water boiling?

I agree that the tepidizer ought to be able to boil water -- from a physics standpoint.  However, from a game standpoint, I can see some of the problem.  First, it would completely change the dynamics of the steam generator.  The tepidizer is extremely efficient at producing heat, and if it could boil water, the steam generator would easily be the only source of power anyone would ever use.  Second, there's the problem that if the tepidizer boils water, what's to stop it from boiling crude into petrol? Or petrol into sour gas?  Even using the "huge installation" examples you gave, crude to sour gas produces more power and resources than it consumes.  If you allow a tepidizer to boil crude, you make the system even MORE efficient, which makes the oil refinery building rather silly.  Currently, your option is 'use the refinery, which is a little lossy, or build a big complex system that is much more efficient.'  The tepidizer would reduce the complexity considerably, in addition to improving the efficiency, thus eliminating the reasons to use the refinery. 

[pacovf]

You would need a thermium tepidizer to boil crude, and you would probably want to use an aquatuner anyway, since the extra cooling is so important. The refinery removes the need for thermium, so it’s hardly a useless building.

As for the balance with the steam turbine, the tepidizer heat output would have to be reduced by a factor of four if it’s not limited to 80C. That’s fine, it’s stil l usable then. I made all the relevant calculations in this thread, if you are curious.

[KittenIsAGeek]

19 minutes ago, pacovf said:

probably want to use an aquatuner anyway, since the extra cooling is so important.

Want to do large-scale cooling?  Steam turbine.  The aquatuner moves heat, the turbine removes it.  You can set up a temperature-controlled door gate to transfer heat incredibly quickly from your hot petroleum (or sour gas) to a turbine without the need for a thermium aquatuner.

[natanstarke]

On 23/02/2019 at 10:34 PM, JohnFrancis said:

Once you don't need the ice biomes anymore it's a very efficient way to melt entire ice biomes for water. Tried doing it with 75 watt heaters, 40 tons of 400+ degree igneous rock, was taking way to long. Tepidizer a chunk of the ice biome for a cycle and boom problem solved.

Remember me something a little while that i build it. The tepdizer needs to be full submerged to melt ice biome?

 

[Gurgel]

6 hours ago, natanstarke said:

Remember me something a little while that i build it. The tepdizer needs to be full submerged to melt ice biome?

As I am going for naturally grown Sleet Wheat, I very much _do_ need ice biomes...

[JohnFrancis]

20 hours ago, natanstarke said:

Remember me something a little while that i build it. The tepdizer needs to be full submerged to melt ice biome?

I small layer of water is enough to start, I had already melted a little of the polluted water, so I chucked in a tepdizer and temp sensor set to 20C and walked away. It's usually a good idea to keep the ice biomes for the wild food but sometimes they get in the way of something. You dig them up you lose half the mass. This is still a very niche use, but if you ever need to melt an ice biome fast there is nothing better.

[natanstarke]

13 hours ago, JohnFrancis said:

I small layer of water is enough to start, I had already melted a little of the polluted water, so I chucked in a tepdizer and temp sensor set to 20C and walked away. It's usually a good idea to keep the ice biomes for the wild food but sometimes they get in the way of something. You dig them up you lose half the mass. This is still a very niche use, but if you ever need to melt an ice biome fast there is nothing better.

Yeap i do it too but normally i take ages to melt it, will try this way now :).

 

On 26/05/2019 at 7:26 AM, Gurgel said:

As I am going for naturally grown Sleet Wheat, I very much _do_ need ice biomes...

I normally use 16 dupes i save like 1 ice biome and melt the rest.

[Gurgel]

3 hours ago, natanstarke said:

I normally use 16 dupes i save like 1 ice biome and melt the rest.

There is nothing wrong with that. There are just other approaches as well. I do mostly mine out the ice-biomes and I cut off parts that have no Sleet Wheat in them as well. Still, I fight for every wild Sleet Wheat and as a result I get enough Pepper Bread for 12 dupes (usually 14-16, actually) for just some dupe labor. 

[Nightinggale]

1 hour ago, Gurgel said:

There is nothing wrong with that.

This is one of the things I love about ONI. We have so many options available and there is no right or wrong way to do things. Sure there are stupid things to do like connect toilet outputs to the drinking water or fill your farm with chlorine, but in the concept of what you do in games where your dupes survive for hundreds of cycles, the concept of right and wrong isn't really there. They are just different strategies and they all work if the dupes survive. This means it's not about figuring out what the game designer had in mind for the situation you are in, it's about figuring what you want to do with the situation.

[Xuhybrid]

On 5/25/2019 at 7:25 PM, KittenIsAGeek said:

I agree that the tepidizer ought to be able to boil water -- from a physics standpoint.  However, from a game standpoint, I can see some of the problem.  First, it would completely change the dynamics of the steam generator.  The tepidizer is extremely efficient at producing heat, and if it could boil water, the steam generator would easily be the only source of power anyone would ever use.  Second, there's the problem that if the tepidizer boils water, what's to stop it from boiling crude into petrol? Or petrol into sour gas?  Even using the "huge installation" examples you gave, crude to sour gas produces more power and resources than it consumes.  If you allow a tepidizer to boil crude, you make the system even MORE efficient, which makes the oil refinery building rather silly.  Currently, your option is 'use the refinery, which is a little lossy, or build a big complex system that is much more efficient.'  The tepidizer would reduce the complexity considerably, in addition to improving the efficiency, thus eliminating the reasons to use the refinery. 

Steam turbine requires 125C minimum. Tepidizer should be able to heat to 110C just like the steam geyser. Problems` solved.