Do not nerf the Aporkalypse!

[Cline]

Seeing the overwhelm of the Aporkalypse, I already see people crying about the difficulty, now, last year there was an update for SW called "home sea home" that completely nerfed the effect of poison which destroyed the fun of it because of people saying its too hard, please don't make the same thing with the new event.

However, the Aporkalypse is meant to be an event for people that are either prepared enough or dumb enough to try it (I do hope there'll be a reward for those people) as there is possible to switch it on or off (similar to the volcano eruptions in Shipwrecked).

All I am saying is that Don't Starve is (or at least was back in 2013) supposed to be an "uncompromising survival game" that laughs in your face after it burned your base down and hyping the Aporkalipse so much, making it so difficult and overwhelming compared to even other events that DS has, just to nerf it, for people that think its too hard is a complete letdown and waste of time.

With that being said, im really looking forward for other updates this game will bring.

EDIT : So I've been playing in a world 10 days right before the aporkalypse, and I just started searching for the calendar, keep in mind that why it took me so long is that I specifically wanted to use gunpowder to destroy the cracked wall segments, which in my opinion that should be the only way, anyway, if the axe destroying cracks is confirmed to be an early access only feature (for debug reasons i image), then you wont be able to find the Calendar before the event while also making sure you have a sustainable base. The only thing that I can see Klei could change, is to place the Calendar in one of the normal chambers and change the map generation on the last island, as it can spawn landmasses that are not accessible on foot

[metallichydra]

right now people are complaining about ancient herald spawning as soon as its killed, which sounds a little too hard.

[orian34]

On 08/12/2018 at 6:36 PM, Cline said:

However, the Aporkalypse is meant to be an event for people that are either prepared enough or dumb enough to try it (I do hope there'll be a reward for those people) as there is possible to switch it on or off (similar to the volcano eruptions in Shipwrecked).

A switch that is hidden in a ruin located in the poisonous jungle, without a single hint about anything to do about the event when it happens.

Oh, and the fun part is that it never ends until you go there. 

You're right, screw all these dumb players who don't know about that. Better learn to live with endless enemy waves.

[Charsis]

5 hours ago, metallichydra said:

right now people are complaining about ancient herald spawning as soon as its killed, which sounds a little too hard.

I have a new harald spawn every few minute, even if one is already on screen, not sure if game broken just for me or people kill it just when new spawns. Also it won't despawn for me

So I have couple herald all over.

[metallichydra]

On ‎08‎-‎12‎-‎2018 at 6:36 PM, Cline said:

All I am saying is that Don't Starve is (or at least was back in 2013) supposed to be an "uncompromising survival game" that laughs in your face after it burned your base down and hyping the Aporkalipse so much, making it so difficult and overwhelming compared to even other events that DS has, just to nerf it, for people that think its too hard is a complete letdown and waste of time.

while i agree that dont starve should be the "uncompromising survival game", it shouldnt be like this.
im not good at dont starve, i usually die, its not that fun all the time, but what i hate most is those sudden deaths you just cant prevent, or its way too hard to prevent, unless you've read it on the forums or on the wiki.

kind of like roc, players who havent seen it probably tries to flee, because they dont know wether or not its going to attack you, unless of course, you've read it on the forums or the wiki, or somebody told you, and usually they're going to be killed by the roc's feet/legs. after some time you probably figure out that its going to take you to its nest. still, its gonna take some time, depending on how lucky you are.

but with aporkalypse, you're probably never going to find out, or atleast its gonna take a LONG time, because:

• not many quotes and such telling you anything about aporkalypse. what i would like here is they add quotes that help you, or can help you, like the character's quotes about monstermeat: they say they Arent gonna eat it, but wilba (who can eat it) say's she eats anything.
• its late-game, meaning that you're gonna play for a long time to reach aporkalypse, and people might even
• once it starts, its hard to stop it: there's ghosts in ruins, so why go down there? there's daily bat attacks, and guards stay indoor, ancient herald spawns: you're doomed.

sorry for this being "messy"

[PunkShark]

7 hours ago, metallichydra said:

while i agree that dont starve should be the "uncompromising survival game", it shouldnt be like this.
im not good at dont starve, i usually die, its not that fun all the time, but what i hate most is those sudden deaths you just cant prevent, or its way too hard to prevent, unless you've read it on the forums or on the wiki.

kind of like roc, players who havent seen it probably tries to flee, because they dont know wether or not its going to attack you, unless of course, you've read it on the forums or the wiki, or somebody told you, and usually they're going to be killed by the roc's feet/legs. after some time you probably figure out that its going to take you to its nest. still, its gonna take some time, depending on how lucky you are.

but with aporkalypse, you're probably never going to find out, or atleast its gonna take a LONG time, because:

• not many quotes and such telling you anything about aporkalypse. what i would like here is they add quotes that help you, or can help you, like the character's quotes about monstermeat: they say they Arent gonna eat it, but wilba (who can eat it) say's she eats anything.
• its late-game, meaning that you're gonna play for a long time to reach aporkalypse, and people might even
• once it starts, its hard to stop it: there's ghosts in ruins, so why go down there? there's daily bat attacks, and guards stay indoor, ancient herald spawns: you're doomed.

sorry for this being "messy"

You do realise that a lot of the deaths are from this right?

Ever since don't starve has existed it has always had these "sudden deaths" that you didn't expect.

Deerclops. no one thought what that was when it came out, heck you didn't even know if it existed in winter Unless you read the wiki.

EVEN WINTER, for the first time in don't starve you would not know if winter was a thing, you would die by freezing because you didn't expect it. Unless you watched youtube or read the wiki. but i bet no one saw it coming if it was their was time playing the game.

You can't just progress through don't starve without dying once. The same with hamlet. You'll learn more and more the more you play and die. That's the experience. It's the complete same deal with hamlet. 

You ain't gonna do the whole game in your first go.

 

 

 

 

[Xadhoom]

6 minutes ago, bugsmand said:

You do realise that a lot of the deaths are from this right?

Ever since don't starve has existed it has always had these "sudden deaths" that you didn't expect.

Deerclops. no one thought what that was when it came out, heck you didn't even know if it existed in winter Unless you read the wiki.

EVEN WINTER, for the first time in don't starve you would not know if winter was a thing, you would die by freezing because you didn't expect it. Unless you watched youtube or read the wiki. but i bet no one saw it coming if it was their was time playing the game.

You can't just progress through don't starve without dying once. The same with hamlet. You'll learn more and more the more you play and die. That's the experience. It's the complete same deal with hamlet. 

You ain't gonna do the whole game in your first go.

the main issiue as i see it, is that the dangers you point out can fairly easy be managed once you know its a game mechanic. Aporkalypse is also easy once you know where you look. but the main problem is that the "season" is late, 6h+ into a play trough and is rather sudden. also you can be faced with wave after wave of monsters, try getting 8+ shadow monsters after you, even with WX fully charged, with coffee and max geared it was a though fight. often your only choice when facing the herald is to run, stopping to fight is often a death sentence.

in the other seasons you are usually eased into them by gradual change, so winter you might notice freezing in time even on your first play, but might take you some time to realize that certain clothing provide insulation or how you can use thermal stone. i recall my first winter i was in my camp with a fire ALL the time, desperate to find close trees to chop to keep feeding my fire. but once i knew that cold was a thing i started to look for ways to keep warm before next time i got into winter. 

[Wennedy]

Havent reached the aporkalypse yet but as i read it is not something to deal with. It just adds a mission to the game, which is to get to the calender before the aporkalypse starts. But after the first aporkalypse, i think it will be boring to go back to the same place everytime. So maybe if location of the calender were to be changed after every aporkalypse(after you end it) it would add more challenge. How to avoid aporkalypse without reading the wiki? Well you should explore everything on the game. If someone reaches to the calender without knowing the aporkalypse he would remember the calender when aporkalpyse starts or he may start it by the calender. An experienced player would know everything can be prevented on dont starve if you know the proper way.

[Atsumame]

38 minutes ago, bugsmand said:

Deerclops. no one thought what that was when it came out, heck you didn't even know if it existed in winter Unless you read the wiki.

While I agree with your argument, this part is false.

Back when don't starve was in beta, deerclops was hinted at several times months before the "a winter's tale" update. And when the trailer for said update hit people knew deerclops was a winter boss since you could hear his cries near the end of the trailer. 

[Xadhoom]

13 minutes ago, Wennedy said:

Havent reached the aporkalypse yet but as i read it is not something to deal with. It just adds a mission to the game, which is to get to the calender before the aporkalypse starts. But after the first aporkalypse, i think it will be boring to go back to the same place everytime. 

a decent way to do that, if you don't want to generate a new ruin each aporkalypse, or have it work in the same way the mant caves work.

[mrdl2010]

I dont care if it is hard. Nothing in dont starve is hard. The problem lies on the purpose or nonexistence of. There is literally no reason to turn on the calendar since you get nothing. 

For the guy who compare with deerclopz, do you understand it drops one of the best if not the best item in the rog?

Game is full of bugs now, which is understandable since it is early access, but the release of this aporkalypse is goddamn stupid.

 

[Szczuku]

This entire thread (and threads like this one) is just a bunch of people who spoiled themselves every past dlc and dst now realise what "uncompromosing" means

[fpx007]

However difficult the aporkalypse is, I don't mind. But the ONLY thing is that this event is almost MEANINGLESS. Suppose that you tried hard to survive the event, killed many heralds, only to find that the boss dropped nothing, NOTHING! Not even a single nightmare fuel! 

Considering all the tackles we met before, we faced seasonal giants, faced the flood and meteor shower, but we also get a lot of reward. For example, the deerclops gives us the eyeball, the flood season (monsoon season) gives us the loot from tiger sharks, the meteor shower gives us a great chance to gather obsidian and dragoon heart. All the things above can be used to craft power items.

And now we go back to the aporkalypse, it gives us almost nothing. The ONLY thing I can figure out is a good chance to befriend with mandrake men. But comparing to all the hazard, is that WORTH? Of course NOT. So the only meaning of its existence is to force player go to that little hidden room to roll the wheel to cancel it. The meaning of the event is SOLELY to CANCEL itself, they create it to let people not to experience it. It is completely ABSURD!

Finally, let's talk about the "uncompromising survival game" thing. The game should be uncompromising, of course. But the player may not compromise, too. They may just go to the room once per 50 days, then just roll the wheel to skip it. As the reward is not so appealing (actually nothing at all), why bother players experiencing it? So finally everything just go as normal, as if the event were not exist. So since the event don't exist in player's heart, why do the developers develop such thing with great effort? In this case, it is not about whether to compromise, it is about its meaning. I know that because the game balance can't be completely perfect, there are always something useful and something useless, and the most useless things may not be used even once. But the developers spent a lot of time (and players waited for a long time, too) only to get a so useless event that everyone wants to skip, the game balance is completely broken. (I don't believe that anyone will want to live in the season forever for no reward.)

So in my opinion, they should do some balance change around it. But instead of nerfing its difficulty, it should add some kind of rewards which worths the effort we pay. So the existence of the event will not be absurd. Remember, it is not about a compromise, it is about the meaning of an update, about the game balance and experience.

[Cline]

On 12/10/2018 at 1:23 PM, orian34 said:

A switch that is hidden in a ruin located in the poisonous jungle, without a single hint about anything to do about the event when it happens.

Oh, and the fun part is that it never ends until you go there. 

You're right, screw all these dumb players who don't know about that. Better learn to live with endless enemy waves.

that is true, the key is well hidden, but if you've played the game long enough (since the 2013 days or so) you would remember that nothing would have told you to prepare for winter, which at the time, it was a hard challange to beat, with deerclops and all. I believe Klei wants to recreate those feeling of panic that painted Don't Starve. I do hope that I have answered your question and not just repeated what i said in the thread ( i kinda forgot my points there since I wrote it xD).

And as an aside : It does end after around 10 days (as how i understand it, the wikia backs me up on that one) however, when i tried it to skip those days with a mod menu, it doesnt work.

Also, i cant exactly tell if thats sarcasm or anger ( damn you text! ), so I hope you didnt have a bad day the day you wrote this or I didnt offended you with anything. thanks for the reply tho ^-^

On 12/10/2018 at 3:09 PM, metallichydra said:

but with aporkalypse, you're probably never going to find out, or atleast its gonna take a LONG time, because:

• not many quotes and such telling you anything about aporkalypse. what i would like here is they add quotes that help you, or can help you, like the character's quotes about monstermeat: they say they Arent gonna eat it, but wilba (who can eat it) say's she eats anything.
• its late-game, meaning that you're gonna play for a long time to reach aporkalypse, and people might even
• once it starts, its hard to stop it: there's ghosts in ruins, so why go down there? there's daily bat attacks, and guards stay indoor, ancient herald spawns: you're doomed.

* first of all, I would love to see signs around the city or prophecies on stone tablets in the ruins that talk about the lore of the event, as it would make the world much more richer. I totally agree with you on that one, but not quite change already existing quotes for basic items as I understand your suggestion

* the sentence is cut off so what im getting at is : "it takes a lot of time to get back on day 60" , that is true, but if they go with the stone tablets idea then that would work as justification in my opinion, however they don't have any way at the moment to counter that so, point for you!

*it is hard to stop (similar to not being prepared for winter and trying to in the season) but at least it takes 10 (as i get it) for the aporkalypse to end.

as for the herald, im not to aquainted to him so ill not comment.

11 hours ago, fpx007 said:

However difficult the aporkalypse is, I don't mind. But the ONLY thing is that this event is almost MEANINGLESS. Suppose that you tried hard to survive the event, killed many heralds, only to find that the boss dropped nothing, NOTHING! Not even a single nightmare fuel! 

alright, your whole comment (I quoted just a part because its very long and so you know its your comment) its very simmilar to my thread, however you touch on the subject of thropies and loot, which of course is going to change, because currently the aporkalypse is not finished as an update, and neither the DLCs, as its in early access

I do also feel that i should summarise what i said so its more comprehensible (even tough im not good at that kind of stuff xD but ill try anyway)

*the aporcalypse shouldnt be nerfed ( as i can already see it) similar to how poison was nerfed, it used to last forever until cured, it was a nessecity to cure it, but now that it only lasts 3 days, there is no reason to get out of your way to get antivenom*

[Cline]

Sorry for being late to respond to all the questions >.< the notification system is very janky

[Yokoblue]

In my opinion if the aporkcalipse end in 10 days, its well balanced, (beside more rewards for it) if it doesn't than you have a problem.

Poisonous jungle is meant to be end game and it should be treated as such. Not as a "rush to it before the first year". If we summarize what a "good" player should be doing first year and a rough estimate of time:
 

• Explore map to locate all 5 ruins and establish a small base (7-10 days)
• Rush to second city with money to get gears and tam o shanter (or get transported there by Roc) (This can take between 3 to 5 days depending on luck of ruins)
• Rush to poisonous jungle and find the calendar (1 Day just to walk back to first island and 2-3 days for the rest)
• Find the calendar in said ruins and reset it

Playing OPTIMALLY and being lucky you could be done around 20 days which is not that great considering it start day 33.

I'm a really good don't starve player and in my current experience with Hamlet, I usually reach the 2nd island by day 10-15 with the amount of cash necessary. I have a small base at that point and fully explored the first island. Going back to 1st island while resisting the effect of humid season on top of rushing to calendar seem like too much to ask for players without knowledge. Lets be honest: Even WITH knowledge of all the game, it won't be easy to execute. Don't starve is mostly about knowledge and planning, but you don't want 1% of the playerbase to be able to survive first year. I want the game to be harder (see other thread i debate a lot) but this isn't the kind of "hard" thats fun.

 

I think the main problem is that aporkalipse doesnt end (as far as i know) and surprise death (which are very common in dont starve like FPX07 pointed out).

 

Solutions:

• Add the standard 2 touchstone, 1 on 1st island, another one anywhere really, this will help player die without as much consequences and push them to try and be more bold about taking risk to solve things. (I know about the magic flower, but good luck rushing to it on top of everything else)
• Make it end after a number of days (like a regular season would be the best)
• Give more reward for killing the boss etc...

 

The biggest problem I see with Aporkalipse right now is like some others pointed out:

Good players will never feel the aporkalipse nor its consequences and bad players will die to it non stop.

[orian34]

Technically you can kill pugalisk in 2 days, and probably never have any issues with the aporkalypse. But we all know WX is broken and you should not use it

[Yokoblue]

1 hour ago, orian34 said:

Technically you can kill pugalisk in 2 days, and probably never have any issues with the aporkalypse. But we all know WX is broken and you should not use it

Technically you can solo all the boss within like 10-15 days (most speedrunner can) but it still doesn't have anything to do with how the game should be... Its not because the best of the very best players can do something that you should change something about it.

 

Also, I did a test to get to the 5th ruin while still building base etc... and Getting to the calendar:

It took me 22 days, i got a bit unlucky ruin wise (had to fully explored to find the ruin exit). Thats by playing very fast and knowing almost 100% of the game.

 

Of course if you rush for it, I could probably make it by day 5-6 on average but with a "im still playing the game normally" mindset, thats how long it took.

[Lepeightl]

On 12/10/2018 at 8:43 AM, metallichydra said:

right now people are complaining about ancient herald spawning as soon as its killed, which sounds a little too hard.

I don't know whether 'too hard' is the right word here. It just feels... meh.

Defeating the Herald is currently like winning a pie-eating contest, with the reward being even more pie. Giving us a reward for defeating him and/or making him disappear for a while would change this.

[metallichydra]

so the aporkalypse ends after 10 days?

well, then it's not that bad, except the herald.

[Cline]

20 hours ago, Yokoblue said:

In my opinion if the aporkcalipse end in 10 days, its well balanced, (beside more rewards for it) if it doesn't than you have a problem.

Poisonous jungle is meant to be end game and it should be treated as such. Not as a "rush to it before the first year". If we summarize what a "good" player should be doing first year and a rough estimate of time:
 

• Explore map to locate all 5 ruins and establish a small base (7-10 days)
• Rush to second city with money to get gears and tam o shanter (or get transported there by Roc) (This can take between 3 to 5 days depending on luck of ruins)
• Rush to poisonous jungle and find the calendar (1 Day just to walk back to first island and 2-3 days for the rest)
• Find the calendar in said ruins and reset it

Playing OPTIMALLY and being lucky you could be done around 20 days which is not that great considering it start day 33.

I'm a really good don't starve player and in my current experience with Hamlet, I usually reach the 2nd island by day 10-15 with the amount of cash necessary. I have a small base at that point and fully explored the first island. Going back to 1st island while resisting the effect of humid season on top of rushing to calendar seem like too much to ask for players without knowledge. Lets be honest: Even WITH knowledge of all the game, it won't be easy to execute. Don't starve is mostly about knowledge and planning, but you don't want 1% of the playerbase to be able to survive first year. I want the game to be harder (see other thread i debate a lot) but this isn't the kind of "hard" thats fun.

 

I think the main problem is that aporkalipse doesnt end (as far as i know) and surprise death (which are very common in dont starve like FPX07 pointed out).

 

Solutions:

• Add the standard 2 touchstone, 1 on 1st island, another one anywhere really, this will help player die without as much consequences and push them to try and be more bold about taking risk to solve things. (I know about the magic flower, but good luck rushing to it on top of everything else)
• Make it end after a number of days (like a regular season would be the best)
• Give more reward for killing the boss etc...

 

The biggest problem I see with Aporkalipse right now is like some others pointed out:

Good players will never feel the aporkalipse nor its consequences and bad players will die to it non stop.

I really appreciate your comment on the post! so thanks a lot ^-^, however you've got some facts wrong, which is what your whole point is based on : the aporkalypse starts on day 60 (not on 33) it is not a season and more of an event, furthermore, it does end after 10 days (not with console commands) and the final point is: the Herald will most likely drop something after you kill him, most likely that drop is not in the game as the game itself is not finished (that means the first update),

however it would be nice of them to add the standard 2 touchstones, i dindnt realise they were even missing

[orian34]

If it ends with time, I guess it's running season. I don't have much more complaints now, except that it should be more apocaliptic(meteors, earthquakes, fires) and maybe some clues as well.

[chiconuclear]

On 12/12/2018 at 12:23 PM, Cline said:

I really appreciate your comment on the post! so thanks a lot ^-^, however you've got some facts wrong, which is what your whole point is based on : the aporkalypse starts on day 60 (not on 33) it is not a season and more of an event, furthermore, it does end after 10 days (not with console commands) and the final point is: the Herald will most likely drop something after you kill him, most likely that drop is not in the game as the game itself is not finished (that means the first update),

however it would be nice of them to add the standard 2 touchstones, i dindnt realise they were even missing

The touchstone idea is pretty neat indeed.
I agree with you, Aporkalypse does not needs a nerf, it needs what many guys posted here: A purpose.
Hamlet does not follow the same seasonal logic as does RoG and I think that's the coolest part about Hamlet, don't ask Hamlet to not be creative.
For everyone complaining about the Calendar being just too hard to come by (information-wise that is) just remember that whenever you start a new Hamlet game you are warned that it'll be harder than your usual DS experience... What do you think it means? Two deerclops by the end of Winter?... Yeah yeah, the game can have more hints about the calendar and that wouldn't hurt anybody.
While I agree that it's BS that the Ancient Herald doesn't have any drops and that there's really no reason to toggle in the Aporkalypse don't complain as if it is the finished product, don't forget it's still early access.
As Cline said don't ask the Aporkalypse to have the same fate Poison had, I'm begging you. Let Klei think what they want of it and finish it... Then complain about it being unfair and BS.
Whatever the Aporkalypse may bring us in the future I still think it shouldn't end without player interaction.

[hyiltiz]

On 12/10/2018 at 7:23 AM, orian34 said:

A switch that is hidden in a ruin located in the poisonous jungle, without a single hint about anything to do about the event when it happens.

Oh, and the fun part is that it never ends until you go there. 

You're right, screw all these dumb players who don't know about that. Better learn to live with endless enemy waves.

Yeah, I had to read the wikia to learn that it doesn't end until you switch it off, and for some reason it wasn't full moon so I needed light source all the time, while coughing like crazy and chased by ghosts.

The game should definitely give hints as to how to deal with what is coming. None of the seasons are hinted either. Relying on the wikia, youtube/twitch game play videos, forum etc. 3rd party info to play the game is a HUGE ... pick your adj there.

On 12/11/2018 at 12:37 PM, Cline said:

that is true, the key is well hidden, but if you've played the game long enough (since the 2013 days or so) you would remember that nothing would have told you to prepare for winter, which at the time, it was a hard challange to beat, with deerclops and all.

2

Anyone who is dumb enough to have nothing better to do with their lives than play a game that has trees, rain and all would definitely expect that *WINTER IS COMING.*

[Cline]

Apparently this is the way they tell you about the Aporkalypse, keep in mind this is 5 days before