DonDegow Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Well marmot, that's what Humans do, every generation success another one. Population growth will stop at some point (on a given planet at least). The only difference is that we slowly age to death while dupes (can) slowly starve to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risu Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Well. There is actually a very severe bug with the element converters, and it's hilarious. Take the g/s of the conversion, and multiply it by the duration it takes. That's the actual amount changed. Note that the UI amounts are wrong as well. So the algae distillery is converting 30kg of slime to 1 tonne of algae and 1 tonne of polluted water every 100 seconds. The fertilizer maker is converting 1.2 tonnes of polluted water to 20kg of fertilizer every 30 seconds. The water purifier is converting 40g of filter and 200g of polluted water to 200g of water every 0.2 seconds. The compost bin is converting 10kg of poop to 10kg of fertilizer every 100 seconds. It just keeps getting worse. The shower actually isn't effected by the bug at all because everything is 1 in the conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathomical Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 One thing that I haven't seen brought up so far is how the (apparent) increase in the Hatch population opens up some very sustainable new power options. If you're getting enough Hatch coal to run two or three coal generators all the time, the calculations involving how much power you have as a baseline for "sustainable" levels of power go way, way up. This allows us to do things that were too power-intensive to sustain previously, which might open up some interesting possibilities for things like thermal manipulation. As an interesting side-effect, coal generators also generate a lot of CO2, and CO2 is a key input to the Air Scrubber which produces polluted water. I haven't run numbers, but I wonder how much additional input that could provide for a Fertilizer Maker if you're going to try to keep a farm running. It also raises some interesting heat management questions, as I have no idea how much additional heat you'd have to find a way to deal with from running a bunch of coal generators, but that's part of the fun: always finding the next thing that's going to break sustainability for your base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methusalem Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Creating power doesn't seem to be a major problem anymore. Four Hatches produce enough coal to run 5 Coal Generators non-stop and the Hydrogen Generator also seems to work reliably now. The challenge will be to keep them from overheating. A major issue seems to be really to keep the Dupes supplied with food so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risu Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Patched the bug and now I'm sad. The algae distillery putting out the correct 10kg just isn't as fun as 1 tonne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Hatch or no hatch. Coal generators are not a sustainable energy source. Eventually you'll run out of things to feed the hatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilda Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 22 minutes ago, Saturnus said: Hatch or no hatch. Coal generators are not a sustainable energy source. Eventually you'll run out of things to feed the hatch. If only you could still feed him dupes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulze Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 4 hours ago, Methusalem said: Creating power doesn't seem to be a major problem anymore. Four Hatches produce enough coal to run 5 Coal Generators non-stop and the Hydrogen Generator also seems to work reliably now. The challenge will be to keep them from overheating. A major issue seems to be really to keep the Dupes supplied with food so far. Actually, overheating is absolutely NO issue, since the gas pumps are working reliably now. Simply set it up like this: 10 batterys in a row, exactly the amount a wire can sustain, 20 for heavy duty. Wall them and build them as close as possible. Build a pump at the side and pump a vacuum (vacuum is 'nothing' therefore no thermal conductivity. (Also good to insulate your base perfectly) No overheating. Do the same hydrogen, or anything needing no manpower. Overheating solved. Since the slime to algae conversion is so massively broken and pufts don't die from air locks anymore they are a sustainable source of slime. For coal cooling do the same, just with a second room getting vacuumed and the access to the coal generators having a manual airlock to let as little gasses in as possible. Pump out the carbon dioxide immediately, overheating solved. 3 hours ago, Saturnus said: Hatch or no hatch. Coal generators are not a sustainable energy source. Eventually you'll run out of things to feed the hatch. Feeding the hatches is fairly easy. Since Oxygen is absolutely no issue anymore, actually overproduction of it is more of an issue, you get an ABUNDANCE of Algae, feed those to the hatches, endless supply of coal. So, the optimal usages are easy therefore: Hydrogen produces more power then it uses, permanent system are possible to set up like this, you just need time. With all the options we have right now this would look like this: Plant as many seeds as possible in man-made sand tiles over time. Set up a slime conversion and polluted water reservoir. Use the carbon dioxide to fill your food storage rooms with it, keeping it from rotting. Build up a steam conversion for a permanent intake of new fresh water. Air scrub the carbon dioxide to produce extra polluted water. (Every bit counts) Set up a permanent cooling system with the thermo switch (pumping out or pumping in heated or cooled air.) Set up all the fertilizing making options one by one. Power the base by hydrogen. Cool off the excess oxygen to liquid, storing it this way. Same for excess hydrogen to keep a buffer, the liquid tepidizer to heat it back up and pressurize the room immensely (liquid vents should still work under pressure after all) For extra cooling use the available wheezewort seeds and set them up at the needed places, saving power. If it's still not enough, use the liquid hydrogen to cool things down. it can heat up anyway, which it should do, save the liquid teperdizers this way if the build is too massive. You can definitely produce ~ 20 tons of polluted water a day this way, using pufts, showers, bio distillers (main source) compost and fertilizer maker for maximum fertilizer production. Storage for gas is no problem, with the reheating method it will just integer overflow worst case, no storage space needed. This way you won't use any exploits besides the integer overflow, it should actually be doable to sustain 5-6 dupes this way permanently. For maximum efficiency switch your dupes out against mouth breathers (more carbon dioxide) to produce more polluted water. Surely several more ways to do it, but those are the ones coming to mind right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulze Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Update: Screw all this, it's now easy as can be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 13 minutes ago, Kulze said: Since the slime to algae conversion is so massively broken and pufts don't die from air locks anymore they are a sustainable source of slime. They already fixed it. No free rides I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clamjam Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 After reading the patch notes, it sounds like there is no need to continue the wild blossom project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilda Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Yeah, now I just have to ask - what will I do with the ton of seeds that will only get bigger with each lunch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulze Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Just now, Vilda said: Yeah, now I just have to ask - what will I do with the ton of seeds that will only get bigger with each lunch? Feed em to the hatches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Kulze said: Feed em to the hatches Hatches do not eat seeds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 With patch 210320's update on bristle blossom. I think pretty much everyone can make a sustainable build without too much trouble. And even one with clean O2, showers and all the luxuries that you can think of. In fact, there's hardly a point in playing anymore as it's not really a challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clamjam Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Yeah, I burnt myself out spending all that time on the wild blossoms, only to find that they now support your colony better than raw lice did before TU. Still looking forward to future updates though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beowulfe Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, clamjam said: Yeah, I burnt myself out spending all that time on the wild blossoms, only to find that they now support your colony better than raw lice did before TU. Still looking forward to future updates though Half the fun of the game is trying to find survival strategies, though! I'm sure you enjoyed testing the wild blossom theory out. I know I like messing around with theories like that, at least. I guarantee the blossoms will change at some point, so if you want a challenge, find a sustainable way to play without using them! Then you'll have a leg up when they do get changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clamjam Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Definitely! I'm sure I'll be back at it soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 I think I might have been changed as a stop gap measure that will be changed once they're ready to release the Puca fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoMuffins Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Clearly the flower change is just a stop gap to allow us to play until they add more food production options. It is time to move away from torturing dupes and actually build a clean colony with sustainability in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risu Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 39 minutes ago, Saturnus said: They already fixed it. No free rides I'm afraid. 20kg for 30kg slime isn't really THAT bad now. Sure isn't as broken as 1 tonne was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, Fatmice said: It is time to move away from torturing dupes... Nuts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecu Posted March 16, 2017 Author Share Posted March 16, 2017 So it seems the changes that happened today while I was asleep made survival trivial? That's a bit unfortunate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chestnutcute Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 No idea what just happened , where is the patch? Is it time for endless survival instead mm Just realized it is 210320 , Where can i read the patch notes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecu Posted March 16, 2017 Author Share Posted March 16, 2017 30 minutes ago, chestnutcute said: No idea what just happened , where is the patch? Is it time for endless survival instead mm Just realized it is 210320 , Where can i read the patch notes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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