The Willow Debate

[T4T3RGR3NAD3R]

I recently had a look at the new Willow. I found her to be terrible, and it seems I am not the only one. It is a good solution for griefers, but it ruins the character for those who actually play normally. I feel as though I have found a middle ground between stomping out griefers and keeping people happy. Willow should retain her fire immunity. It makes a marginal difference to griefers, and it is a major part of the character. Willow should start out with "Willow's Damaged Lighter" which has low durability. Upon running out of durability, it would become "Willow's Broken Lighter", which would be equipable, but would produce no light. This is because otherwise it might just disappear when it runs out of durability. I'm not entirely sure how that works. Anyway, to repair the broken lighter, you would need to craft "Willows Lighter" (The normal one) out of the broken lighter and some other materials at a science machine or alchemy engine (Whatever seems more fair). Since all characters can get the lighter anyway, all players would have this recipe. This solution makes it so that the character is kept intact, but taking full advantage of the lighter takes some time investment, which may sway off griefers who just join, burn, and leave. It's no perfect solution, but I feel it is better than the current one. As for insanity fire, I'm not too sure about that. That's why his is "The Willow Debate" Join hands, everybody! Pray to SethR! Pray for him to bring our Willow back!

 

(Scroll down for more ideas)

[Asparagus]

Personally, I think if the following changes were made, she would be a decent character again: Lighter works like the lantern; it can be crafted, but also refueled, and doesn't disappear when spent. Maybe it has to be fueled with something interesting, maybe a fuel that you also have to craft. Based on Seth's chat, they wanted to make it something that Willow could share, but not something that she could just share and then leave, which is why it's craftable, but finite. Refueling with a fuel that only Willow could craft would be a good medium between those (and give room for making a more lore-sensible expensive recipe, maybe involving steel wool!). Maybe... charcoal + spider glands = lighter fluid? Or... maybe durians could be part of the recipe. I'm not sure why that appeals to me, but it does. Restore the fire immunity. I get that it has the effect they were aiming for in that particular scenario (Willow lighting the forest on fire and laughing as everyone else burns), but that's really not the main threat of griefing, and you can still burn a whole forest just fine... from the edge. Without fire immunity, Willow loses the stuff that really made her interesting, strategically, like fire traps.

Edit: Willow

...

 

You're on the right track about it though... the nerfing is kinda good and bad at the same time...

[Pyromailmann]

Tater, you're a really crazy person.

Honestly, Seth said that this is a stopgap for Willow's Balancing.

I mean, honestly, DST would be a mess if they didn't balance Willow.

No, but seriously, I'd prefer Willow with these stats:

-A bit more resistant to fire than other characters (75% more than other characters, I guess?)

-Has a sweet lighter, which can be crafted, refuled and used, but needs lots of fuel because of fast, burning.

-Is crazy (I guess has less sanity)

 

Personally, I would've liked an option that when the host starts a server, the host can choose what certain permissions non-hosts get (like making certain players admins, making admins/mods only allowed to do things like start fires or use hammers).

[MrNiac]

I recently had a look at the new Willow. I found her to be terrible, and it seems I am not the only one. It is a good solution for griefers, but it ruins the character for those who actually play normally. I feel as though I have found a middle ground between stomping out griefers and keeping people happy. Willow should retain her fire immunity. It makes a marginal difference to griefers, and it is a major part of the character. Willow should start out with "Willow's Damaged Lighter" which has low durability. Upon running out of durability, it would become "Willow's Broken Lighter", which would be equipable, but would produce no light. This is because otherwise it might just disappear when it runs out of durability. I'm not entirely sure how that works. Anyway, to repair the broken lighter, you would need to craft "Willows Lighter" (The normal one) out of the broken lighter and some other materials at a science machine or alchemy engine (Whatever seems more fair). Since all characters can get the lighter anyway, all players would have this recipe. This solution makes it so that the character is kept intact, but taking full advantage of the lighter takes some time investment, which may sway off griefers who just join, burn, and leave. It's no perfect solution, but I feel it is better than the current one. As for insanity fire, I'm not too sure about that. That's why his is "The Willow Debate" Join hands, everybody! Pray to SethR! Pray for him to bring our Willow back!

 

I have been a player of willow on RoG (~~100 days, dead by bunnymans :/), sad for her.

 

Nevertheless, something had to be done coz, there is a real issue with griefers/beginners.

I agree with you, it is part of Willow's identity to keep her fire insanity.

But it might be a very good option to let her start with a broken lighter which

-has a low durability (wont be destroyed at 0%)

-no warm boost

-very very low light

 

Could be repaired only with scientist machine :

- still have a durability

- need the broken lighter (otherwise, she would be able to craft it to everyone, kinda OP)

 

i guess i would not play her again with this configuration.

[Michi01]

Wait, how many threads for Willow discussion do we now have?
4?

[T4T3RGR3NAD3R]

Wait, how many threads for Willow discussion do we now have?

4?

 

That's because it's a big issue

[Ringoringa]

I stop playing for a few days to take care of RL stuff, and when I come back, the character I play as most gets all the things I loved about her nerfed?  Just my luck, I suppose.  And no, I'm not a griefer, I just liked being able to travel indefinitely throughout the night.  Her lighter is great in combination with a berry bush hat when the hounds attack after all the pigs have gone inside or while the beefalo are asleep.  At least in single-player; haven't actually tried that in multi yet, for some reason.  For all I know, it may not work.  (I suck at kiting, so my entire play-style tends to revolve around doing everything in my power to not take things on directly.  Hooray for cowardice!)

 

Oh well.  Guess I'll just have to play someone else online now that griefers have ruined things for the rest of us.  Couldn't we have just made it so the lighter is still an infinite light source, and you just can't set things on fire with it?  I'd have been fine crafting torches for charcoal!  Or maybe someone has suggested this already, and the problems already pointed out... I'm admittedly a bit tardy to the party on this discussion, having just found out a half an hour ago.  I mostly just want my infinite light back.  It'd also be nice if they restored fire immunity (why was that cut, again?) but I'll take what I can get.  To be honest, though, I don't mind the insanity fire getting cut from multiplayer.  I always feel bad when my sanity dips too far without me realizing it, causing me to accidentally set something important aflame.  Granted, it's actually saved me on at least one occasion when night was approaching, and I set a tree on fire long enough to grab the last item I needed for a torch nearby (someone had stolen my lighter following my untimely demise at the hands of a treeguard), but that's such a ridiculously rare and specific stroke of luck that you'd be mad to actually count on it.  That, and it's not supposed to be a beneficial feature so much as an aggravating one, I'm pretty sure.

[The Letter W]

 

Personally, I would've liked an option that when the host starts a server, the host can choose what certain permissions non-hosts get (like making certain players admins, making admins/mods only allowed to do things like start fires or use hammers).

 

I agree with this. The only issue is balancing the campfire in that regard, since you could still set an entire area aflame just by dropping some stuff near one.

The Simple Protection Mod was a good start in my opinion, but it wasn't quite what I was looking for.

[T4T3RGR3NAD3R]

I've got it! She should start out with Willow's Lighter, like normal. She should be able to craft generic lighters for other people. These would work like the current craftable ones. When she is insane, an item from her inventory will randomly disappear, and she will say "Oops! I shouldn't have burned that!" With these measures in place, people will be more friendly towards Willows, and the sanity issue will be a punishment to just the Willow. In exchange for the more drastic sanity punishment, her maximum sanity would become 150.

[Pyromailmann]

I've got it! She should start out with Willow's Lighter, like normal. She should be able to craft generic lighters for other people. These would work like the current craftable ones. When she is insane, an item from her inventory will randomly disappear, and she will say "Oops! I shouldn't have burned that!" With these measures in place, people will be more friendly towards Willows, and the sanity issue will be a punishment to just the Willow. In exchange for the more drastic sanity punishment, her maximum sanity would become 150.

Tater, honestly, just let Klei do their Retweak on Willow and then we can let this thread sink.

But the burning an item seems dumb, you could have a low sanity Willow carry home 40 logs, but come back with 20 because she burned all the logs on the way.

[Asparagus]

Tater, honestly, just let Klei do their Retweak on Willow and then we can let this thread sink. But the burning an item seems dumb, you could have a low sanity Willow carry home 40 logs, but come back with 20 because she burned all the logs on the way.

I have a question:

Who would win (speed-wise) in a tree chopping contest?

 

Willow with her torch trick and regular axe

or

Woodie and Lucy?

 

Assuming the trees are of the highest tier and 50 trees in total?

 

EDIT: Trees are closely packed...

 

Charcoal is forbidden, they have to be logs... so no burning it in one fell swoop O__O

[Pyromailmann]

I have a question:

Who would win (speed-wise) in a tree chopping contest?

 

Willow with her torch trick and regular axe

or

Woodie and Lucy?

 

Assuming the trees are of the highest tier and 50 trees in total?

 

EDIT: Trees are closely packed...

 

Charcoal is forbidden, they have to be logs... so no burning it in one fell swoop O__O

Woodie because he swings actually really fast.

[Asparagus]

Woodie because he swings actually really fast.

Bu-bu-bu-bu-but the torch trick O__O

[T4T3RGR3NAD3R]

Tater, honestly, just let Klei do their Retweak on Willow and then we can let this thread sink.

 

Yes, Seth said the changes are temporary, but he didn't say anything about how or when they will be fixed. I feel that maybe if I come up with or somebody else comes up with an idea that a lot of people like, it could speed up the process.

[oxym0r0n13]

I'm very sad that they nerfed Willow, she was my favorite character and I really enjoyed the necessary balance for playing her.  I would just make myself and "insanity fire pit" which was a decent distance away from camp, for any night where Willow had the chance of lighting things on fire accidentally. 

 

If griefers and PvP are the reason they did this, then why don't they just make it so that server admins can limit character selection? No doubt what they will find is that griefers are going to wreck havoc no matter what, and ultimately they are going to have to give server admins more abilities to limit them. Unfortunately all this Willow nerf did for me is make my 80+ day character completely useless. 

[Ghostmin]

I can't understand which mode are you guys talking about. co-op? or PvP?

 

In co-op mode, Willow was not good from the start. In PvP mode, Willow was not strongest character since fire damage was nerfed(that is not mean her fire immune)

 

Anyways, Klei nerfed her only for griefer. and they are still in everywhere. their mission was failed.

They MUST notice griefing is not Willow's fault.

[Clwnbaby]

 

Anyways, Klei nerfed her only for griefer. and they are still in everywhere. their mission was failed. They MUST notice griefing is not Willow's fault.

 

Its not the griefing is Willow's fault is that everyone associated griefing with Willow.  Her temporary rebalance was an effort to change this stigma so that players who want to play as Willow can without being discriminated against.  If you're seeing Willow everywhere than their mission was a success because now the players who want to play as her can.

[T4T3RGR3NAD3R]

If you're seeing Willow everywhere than their mission was a success because now the players who want to play as her can.

 

As far as I have observed, barely anybody plays as Willow anymore. At least on the community servers.

[CaptainFun]

To preface this, I'm going to say I don't even play Willow. Never played her in Together and played as her a total of 2 times in regular DS. And yes, I'm aware that this is a stopgap and thus this isn't permanent. 

 

I think it really sucks that Klei felt the need to nerf a character because of griefers. Yes, there are horror stories of Willows joining servers and burning them to the ground, but that's not something that just Willow can do. I could join a server as Wilson, make a couple of torches and burn everything they cared about. To a griefer it doesn't matter if they die on day 2 or 3 or 5 as long as they ruined something. It sucks, and it just makes the game less fun for the people who actually want to work together. 

 

I don't think the lighter needs a limit. It's her trademark, and if fire was such a problem in PVP (which sucks to begin with), why not make it so the lighter and torches can't light players on fire instead? Willow's only real advantages were the lighter and the sanity gain from fire, the latter of which is necessary because of her low sanity and destructive nature when insane.  

[Zinglon]

To preface this, I'm going to say I don't even play Willow. Never played her in Together and played as her a total of 2 times in regular DS. And yes, I'm aware that this is a stopgap and thus this isn't permanent. 

 

I think it really sucks that Klei felt the need to nerf a character because of griefers. Yes, there are horror stories of Willows joining servers and burning them to the ground, but that's not something that just Willow can do. I could join a server as Wilson, make a couple of torches and burn everything they cared about. To a griefer it doesn't matter if they die on day 2 or 3 or 5 as long as they ruined something. It sucks, and it just makes the game less fun for the people who actually want to work together. 

 

I don't think the lighter needs a limit. It's her trademark, and if fire was such a problem in PVP (which sucks to begin with), why not make it so the lighter and torches can't light players on fire instead? Willow's only real advantages were the lighter and the sanity gain from fire, the latter of which is necessary because of her low sanity and destructive nature when insane.  

 

Because nerfing one character is easier than editing game mechanics related to interactions with fire. I agree with your idea about burning someone with touch/lighter would have been tweaked, but also respect Klei's response too.

 

There are more griefers who utilize Wickybottom for tentacle summoning too, but the most accessible and simple way to griefing was just picking Willow at start and burn down whole things without any fire-damaging risk she suffers. They removed at least one easiest possibility/accessibility of griefing, and I think it's anyway a good gesture for other players who wants to play DST without firestarting culprit.

 

Anyway, now griefers picks up other characters like WX-78(swiping whole gears in server) or Wickybottom(tentacles!) though lol. They also gonna be rebalanced, as Klei's announcement.

[Zinglon]

As far as I have observed, barely anybody plays as Willow anymore. At least on the community servers.

 

I saw at least 2 Willow-s in dedicated server I played last night. Why you guys don't playing with her by yourself?

[XirmiX]

My opinion in a few words:

Fire immunity - yes

The broken lighter thing idea - no

 

I'd suggest that if the lighter runs out of fuel, you could refuel it with grass or something and instead of crafting a new one, you could just repair the one that is out of fuel; a lot like lanterns and miner hats do! Seems a lot more realistic, ei?

[AlternateMew]

I'd suggest that if the lighter runs out of fuel, you could refuel it with grass or something and instead of crafting a new one, you could just repair the one that is out of fuel; a lot like lanterns and miner hats do! Seems a lot more realistic, ei?

 

That's how I think it should be, personally. You could still need to craft it, but it wouldn't be completely useless due to regaining status a permanent item.

[enragedcamel]

My opinion in a few words:

Fire immunity - yes

The broken lighter thing idea - no

 

I'd suggest that if the lighter runs out of fuel, you could refuel it with grass or something and instead of crafting a new one, you could just repair the one that is out of fuel; a lot like lanterns and miner hats do! Seems a lot more realistic, ei?

 

I think coal would make more sense. 

[XirmiX]

I think coal would make more sense. 

No need for a new item... May be CHARcoal