Damage, Armor, and Gold rebalance!

[J192]

Here we go again...

 

1. Remove the durability nerf of gold tools.

2. Remove the absorption nerf of armor.

3. Rework the damage nerf to rezecib's genius solution (can be downloaded as a mod):

 

[...]
 
The way damage works in the mod is a mob keeps track of the last time it was hit by a player. If it gets hit by a player again, it checks the last time it was hit by a player, and if that time was less than 90% of a player's attack period ago, it reduces the damage to 60%. The idea of this is that if you're fighting something alone, it's just like single player, but if you're fighting together, it's pretty similar to the damage we have currently.

 

[...]

 

Reasoning:

 

Gold

More players means more resource consumption. Since gold is a finite resource in DST, it would be very unwise to nerf it. This just makes gold tools inferior to flint tools resource-wise for no valid reason.

 

Armor & Damage

More players means hella' torment for lone mobs because players can easily gang up on them, but this isn't the case for groups of mobs. Because players are now frailer and weaker, groups of mobs can now easily tear several players into shreds when attacking en masse. It comes to the point that two players in DST who are fighting 6-8 spiders are more likely to flee or be defeated while a single player in DS who is fighting 6-8 spiders is more likely to have a nice top hat or a monster lasagna later on. Not only does it makes combat a bit grindy, it also makes it infuriating and annoying.

[F1sh]

Remove, remove, remove.

Don't like any of them.

At least make them optional.

[CREU]

Remove, remove, remove.

Don't like any of them.

At least make them optional.

YEP totaly agree what if all the 4 player are triying to kill each other?

[Winterbird]

Remove, remove, remove.

Don't like any of them.

At least make them optional.

Same.

[Thieverpedia]

Rework, Rework, Remove

Reasoning

1. Should be reworked. Perhaps have damage reduction be dependant on players currently in combat in the vicinity?

2. Same as above.

3. Gold may be renewable via the Pig King, but a nerf hardly seems fair. It's a good endgame material, unless you feel like going into the Ruins.

When in doubt, remove them all. I honestly enjoy a friendly competition, and nerfs just wouldn't help that.

[J192]

DMG reduction.

Great job replying to his statement.

[J192]

Perhaps have damage reduction be dependant on players currently in combat in the vicinity?

That would still make fighting groups of mobs very annoying. I'd still go for rezecib's solution.

[J192]

I really want to know what you guys think instead of staring at the poll results.

[Yoyoto]

Because of how quickly we find ourselves over run... me and my buddy have made it a #1 priority to be near beefalo in case of an emergency.... This strategy got taken to a new level last night... Playing as wickerbottom I insisted we set up next to a swamp for reeds... We then found out what it feels like to be in a hentai, since literally all we did was run every enemy into the tentacles. It was a lot of fun but after killing the deerclops, all our hounds, a spider queen, and a metric fuckton of spiders I just kinda thought to my self... If our damage is so nerfed and enemies are tearing us down so quickly... Why bother attacking ourselves when we can just laugh at the hentai monsters?

 

So yeah.. because of the nerf I don't see a reason to even bother fighting unless it's 2-3 spiders or something.

[rezecib]

@Yoyoto I think Toros put what you're saying in a good way-- the game always had options for you to fight things yourself or for you to get things to fight each other, and all the damage nerf does it draw out fights if you're fighting, and thus increase the relative value of getting things to fight each other instead.

[CuteCatFace]

It think everything should be like it is in the original game.

[J192]

It think everything should be like it is in the original game.

Everything? Does that mean we aren't getting multiple players in the same world?

:c

[DevilsSlide]

As for the damage modifier.  I can understand there being some nerf to it, but I think a tiered system for it would be best.  A sever with 4-6 full damage players would be able to kill anything too quickly.  But if there's a tiered system to it it would make more sense.  Even more so if that damage varies on who is around you at the time. 

 

i.e. -  I'm off fighting something alone, my damage would be something close to the normal damage.  Maybe 90% of the normal damage to encourage you to work together somewhat, but not be a huge hindrance as to prohibit you from exploring by yourself.

 

Now let's say I'm exploring with a friend (who is in the vicinity) and come across something that needs to be killed.  Now that they are in the "area" damage will be modified to something like 75%

 

Then if there are three people in the area, maybe damage would be modified to something like 65%.

 

The idea being, you'll still do more damage working together, but you won't be punished for working alone either.  Obviously the modifier would need a little tweaking but I figured I'd throw out the idea at least.

[The Letter W]

I voted for Rework on all three. I can see why it was put into place, the mobs at vanilla health wouldn't stand a chance in six player servers. Unfortunately, I don't have any suggestions on how to rework it myself, but Rezecib seems to have a good idea going on!

[XirmiX]

Hmm, it looks like most people are like me: they want the nerf off, so they can actually kill some mobs. Like, I tried to kill a Tentacle spike with someone and because I was lagging, we both lost almost all of our health, armour and all we got was one tentacle spike after killing 4 tentacles. What a bunch of bull. If people are gonna have lag (which they WILL and ALWAYS) then at least give the host full power. But then it will be boring for clients and it'll be single player all over again. So yeah, @SethR that nerf really didn't make anyone co-operate more but rather die and not play more, which is not really what Klei is aiming for, if I'm not mistaken.

[Toros]

Hmm, it looks like most people are like me: they want the nerf off, so they can actually kill some mobs. Like, I tried to kill a Tentacle spike with someone and because I was lagging, we both lost almost all of our health, armour and all we got was one tentacle spike after killing 4 tentacles. What a bunch of bull. If people are gonna have lag (which they WILL and ALWAYS) then at least give the host full power. But then it will be boring for clients and it'll be single player all over again. So yeah, @SethR that nerf really didn't make anyone co-operate more but rather die and not play more, which is not really what Klei is aiming for, if I'm not mistaken.

I'm picturing the benny hill theme playing as you and your friend mistime your dodges around a tentacle.

Kiting is a little trickier now, but it's still pretty easy.

[The Letter W]

I'm picturing the benny hill theme playing as you and your friend mistime your dodges around a tentacle.

Kiting is a little trickier now, but it's still pretty easy.

 

I find as a client if you reduce the number by half you're usually pretty good. Unless it's just that laggy.

[J192]

I'm picturing the benny hill theme playing as you and your friend mistime your dodges around a tentacle.

Kiting is a little trickier now, but it's still pretty easy.

Honestly, I see the nerfs as:

"hey ganging up on mobs is op"

"so lets make ganging up on mobs the only viable choice in combat"

"genuis"

 

The nerfs are very counterproductive. Sure, ganging up on mobs got nerfed, but that makes fighting off multiple ones nearly impossible unless the player to monster ratio is 2:1.

 

So, we either have to suffer the unnecessarily grindy combat or we waste time herding mobs around whilst teleporting back into their attack range just to avoid combat.

[Toros]

Honestly, I see the nerfs as:

"hey ganging up on mobs is op"

"so lets make ganging up on mobs the only viable choice in combat"

"genuis"

The nerfs are very counterproductive. Sure, ganging up on mobs got nerfed, but that makes fighting off multiple ones nearly impossible unless the player to monster ratio is 2:1.

So, we either have to suffer the unnecessarily grindy combat or we waste time herding mobs around whilst teleporting back into their attack range just to avoid combat.

Turning off action prediction helps a ton, but I've honestly had zero issues with multiple attackers.

Spiders are beaten with traps and stunlock. Hounds can be distracted with monster meat.

Treeguards are better pacified, and can heavily damage deerclops even if you don't stunlock him with an ice staff.

Tentacles only hit one target at a time, and they have a long delay between attacks.

Koalafant/beefalo have an incredibly long delay between attacks.

I agree combat can be grindy, but it really isn't difficult to adjust your tactics to take down anything in the game.

[XirmiX]

I still want melee attacks to be primary. Cause that's just what people want. Don't make this turn into a too-much-of-a-strategy-game, Klei!

[J192]

I really hope bumping threads is allowed.

 

-----

 

Anyway, look at this PvE grindfest: 

They barely survived an attack from A BUNCH OF BEES. In single-player, you could have dispatched around 4-5 bees only using an axe via the kiting technique that they did in the video. The only possible way to rid of those bees as fast as in single-player, is if they all focus fire on one bee at a time, meaning they had to gang up on single targets, the actual thing Klei is trying to discourage.

[Halved]

Seeing how no devs are replying to this makes me sad

[rezecib]

Seeing how no devs are replying to this makes me sad

 I keep meaning to bring it up on dev streams. Hopefully I'll remember next Thursday.

[J192]

Seeing how no devs are replying to this makes me sad

They usually reply to threads like this. No idea why they aren't responding to this one. :c

[XirmiX]

They usually reply to threads like this. No idea why they aren't responding to this one. :c

Try summoning them! SethR doesn't care what so ever (:@) so let's see what JoeW has to say about this.