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Single Stage Liquid Hydrogen Plant Idea


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So I think there are 2 main ideas for liquid hydrogen.

The first is a 2 stage cooling system, where you pre-cool the hydrogen, and pre-cool a pool of supercoolant to -422.1 F.  (~ -251.1C)

You then run that pre-cooled coolant through an aquatuner which drops the temp by around 25 deg F, which then goes through the pre-cooled hydrogen (cooled near it's condensation point) for a single flush cycle of liquid hydrogen.

This method seems tedious to me, and there are alot of other questions that need answering...Like, how do you get your supercoolant back up to that -422.1....etc... Surely solveable, but tedious.

So that leads me to the 2nd idea...A single stage cooling system that self regulates, so that the liquid passing through the aquatuner never goes above -422.1, but liquid that comes out of the radiator at temperatures lower than -422.1 can still be used without too much hassle.

Here's my attempt at a single stage, liquid hydrogen system...

I like to keep things both cheap, simple, and doable in a live playthrough...so that's what I've tried to do.

This was a pretty fun build, and the only space material it uses is supercoolant, and I only used about 2000kg of it. All of the insulated material is ceramic, and the components that might overheat / melt, are made out of steel.

The key to this method is using 2 liquid shutoffs, one is set to [Above] -422.1 and the other is set to [Below] -422.1.

If the liquid is warmer than -422.1, it's sent to the aquatuner to be pumped again. If it is colder than -422.1, it's sent to a normal pump to be cycled back into the radiator.

You'll also note that my first liquid hydrogen resevoir has a small radiator in it, this is to try and suck out as much heat as possible from the liquid before it's stored...Since our temperature ranges are so slim. (You can see the storage room full of hydrogen from breakage, this happened before I added the small radiator, you 100% want your storage room to be in a vacuum, so up in space somewhere is probably a good place to store it)

Leme know watcha think and thanks for checking out my single stage Lh2 design!

[Overall view]

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[automation view]

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[plumbing view]

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Nice setup.  I did something similar with mine, except I divert super coolant into my silo to warm it slightly to try to keep the temp right above -420F when it goes into the aquatuner.  It isn't perfect, and eventually my silo walls get cold enough that it doesn't keep the temp high enough.  But it's been enough to keep my LH2 at about -425F which keeps it from breaking pipes during fueling.

I use automation to pulse the valve 3/10 to somewhat limit the amount of heat coming from the silo loop.  I also have the supply reservoir (inner left) almost full to smooth out the temps which helped a lot, but required quite a lot of coolant.

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Quite elaborate. Well done. I haven't actually played that far in-game, as I'm still fiddling with the mechanics and figuring out what systems I'm gonna go with...Usually get my designs worked out first, so I can save on derplicants making it 100% more frustrating.

Is super coolant pretty easy to get normally?

I had another neat 2-stage system design that gets the hydrogen about as cold as possible for storage, but it uses a boatload of supercoolant...

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6 minutes ago, Sigma Cypher said:

This seems wonderful.  And your base is a thing of beauty Nitro.  Would either of you consider adding a save file? I don't quite understand it and would love to play around with it.

I'd be more than happy to, I'm working on one more neat little tutorial for this save file and then I'll be starting up a real game.

I found a REAAAALY neat way to create entire vacuum rooms, that's both quick, and easy. Also quite power efficient. I'll be posting a step by step on that very soon.

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13 minutes ago, ruhrohraggy said:

Quite elaborate. Well done. I haven't actually played that far in-game, as I'm still fiddling with the mechanics and figuring out what systems I'm gonna go with...Usually get my designs worked out first, so I can save on derplicants making it 100% more frustrating.

Is super coolant pretty easy to get normally?

I had another neat 2-stage system design that gets the hydrogen about as cold as possible for storage, but it uses a boatload of supercoolant...

Yeah this wasn't my first rodeo with the silo setup, and I built it all in debug initially to test (screenshots are survival game though).  I had about 7 tons of super coolant prior to re-doing my silos.  I also had jet-pack access to everything, which makes building it quite easy.  I will say that the hydrogen engines take a LOT of hydrogen.  I had a considerable amount saved, and launching just the two rockets had already made a noticable dent in my storage.  I have considered making petro rockets for the other two spots, but I need to farm more steel anyways and honestly I've kinda lost interest as there's not much left to do at this point.  I did play around with running coolant pipes through the heatsink at the bottom, which does a much better job of pulling out the heat.  I do like the central design though, as once it's running the whole system pretty much powers itself and keeps my silos ice cold.

Here's the save if you want to check it out:

 

Nitroturtle-Planet3.sav

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ruhro your save file is from cycle 0.  Looks good so far though! :p

Nitro's save file is like an ONI masterclass for me.  The polluted water cooling loop with sieve on the steam vents is brilliant!  I like how you mixed polluted oxygen and oxygen in a 1-1 ratio to be distilled.  Makes me wonder if you can't use all polluted oxygen?  I have other questions about the base not related to this topic - I will try PM.  Thank you very much for this.

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Here is my implementation -- "proof of concept" build only.  I didn't let it go too long but the H2 seems to be hovering around -260.5 C.  If I stop injecting more gas the temps should approach but not reach -266.2 C.  

The Thermo sensor is set to -252.2C.  - the thermium patch below the aquatuner takes the place of the steam engine heat sink.  In place of the Wolframite blob at the top, I would run one tile of radiant piping through the bottom walls of my silo, which seem to hover around 200C.

The idea is to throttle the heat-addition valve until the temperature in the reservoir stabilizes at -252.2.  The trick is to keep the flow rate under 2000 g/s or so, so it doesn't take too much coolant out of the loop.

LH2_Overview.jpg

 

LH_Thermal.jpg

LH2_Automation.jpg

LH2_Fluid.jpg

Hmm ... I made it sound like you have to tweak the valve to get super precise control of the temperature - that's not what I meant.  The automation does that.  It just helps to play with the valve settings so you are not adding two much heat or too little heat per pass - you can tell if you get a big overshoot in the reservoir temperature or conversely if it takes too long to get back to temperature after the bypass is activated.  The longer you can keep the aquatuner running the closer you will get to -266C.

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LH_Fluid2.thumb.jpg.ce012d8a9a5c0ee11e7ed01b2590b3ca.jpg

Here is "the full set up, as implemented in a live play-through."  Harder to follow what is happening, but the heat addition loop consists of the short pipe through the right-hand steam turbine (one segment radiating steel pipe, the rest ceramic insulating).  The valve is set to 1600 g/s.  The turbine is at 200C or so.

LH_Overview2.jpg

LH_Overview2.jpg

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Nice, I like it. Little more complicated than what I had in mind, and it seems to be a 2 stage with a pre-cool, Though it might end up being more efficient than a single stage. I had planned on the minimalist approach, using as little supercoolant as possible.

But again, for a large system, that's quite nice.

I'm assuming the center aquatuner is being used to make LOX below?

I'm also curious how monitoring the temps at the aquatuner inlet is, compared to inside the radiator. I've found as the super-coolant sits inside the insulated pipe entering the aquatuner, it stays colder for longer than the super-coolant inside the radiant pipe in the radiator. I wasn't really interested in having the heat deletion room add any more heat to my super-coolant than necessary.

I'd also be really quite impressed if you did all that with 5 dupes by cycle 667. :D

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Yes that's right - center AT for LOX.  It just _looks_ more complicated.

True it's 2-stage but it will work without it - with lower throughput.   Don't you agree the "proof-of-concept" build above proves it? 

I don't see that I have a choice about monitoring temps at the AT inlet rather than somewhere else that may be more representative.  I thought -252.2C was a hard limit _at the input_ otherwise the outlet pipe breaks.  Nativel pushes this in his water-based AT designs by a degree or so.  Perhaps I am wrong about this.

First play-through.  6 dupes inc two astronaut knuckleheads but yeah - gave it an honest go for a while with Nativel's Cruiser series as a guide but started using the heck out of CTRL-F4 when my rockets disappeared after every reload and when it became painfully obvious that I have no idea what I'm doing.  I learned everything I know from you, @Nativel, @Nitroturtle and @Saturnus.  I see now that I stretched the truth when I said "as implemented in a live play-through." :|

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Sigma Cypher said:

6 dupes inc two astronaut knuckleheads

After we got this shedule system, you have to use 8 dupes and 2 astronauts. It's because it the past we have night time and 3 dupes work and sleep at the same time, so now 4 dupes work like 3 dupes but w/o sleeping, same thing with base workers (farmers)

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1 hour ago, Sigma Cypher said:

Yes that's right - center AT for LOX.  It just _looks_ more complicated.

True it's 2-stage but it will work without it - with lower throughput.   Don't you agree the "proof-of-concept" build above proves it? 

I don't see that I have a choice about monitoring temps at the AT inlet rather than somewhere else that may be more representative.  I thought -252.2C was a hard limit _at the input_ otherwise the outlet pipe breaks.  Nativel pushes this in his water-based AT designs by a degree or so.  Perhaps I am wrong about this.

First play-through.  6 dupes inc two astronaut knuckleheads but yeah - gave it an honest go for a while with Nativel's Cruiser series as a guide but started using the heck out of CTRL-F4 when my rockets disappeared after every reload and when it became painfully obvious that I have no idea what I'm doing.  I learned everything I know from you, @Nativel, @Nitroturtle and @Saturnus.  I see now that I stretched the truth when I said "as implemented in a live play-through." :|

 

 

Well, complicated is a relative term really. Like that over-engineered contraption for making oxygen, some people might look at it and go "hell no, I don't get it"... You can do the same thing with 2 pumps and 1 gas filter...It just costs efficiency. It's just, how complex of a system do you want to use, how complex can your brain and emotions handle, one person might say "Naw it's easy" other looks at it and goes  ¯\(°_o)/¯

I get what's going on with your system, having worked with similar ones in game. It's nice, it looks nice, it's not really all that complex and you have a big pool of hydrogen. *thumbs up*

You have a nice big pool of Lh2 there, that's all that matters really. Jokingly, I would hope "proof-of-concept" proves it, or it would be like..."proof of failure?" or something...lol.

Thinking about it with a clear head, yeah, putting the temp sensor right at the intake for this design makes sense. I had a couple designs where you needed to have a temp probe inside the radiator, but this is not them.

And nice work! Motivation to keep learning and sharing, for sure.

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