Wigfrid feels useless

[KainMorgen]

So I played my fav Wigfrid for 50 days and her perks appear alot less helpful in Hamlet.

Maybe my strategy is to blame, but I don't find much gold yet.
So I never crafted a single of her spears or helmets as you can get a ton of Halberds which have an even stronger attack (although half durability, but you get a ton of them if you eliminate single guards) and football helmets are super easy to make from each single pig skin I get while doing so.
Even if I had surplus gold, the unique equipment can't really compare.
She still has her attack and absorption multiplier and while that's nice to have it doesn't feel exciting because you don't notice it much.

On the other hand her restrictive diet makes Wigfrid a pain to play during the hay fewer season. I probably should have prepared better, but I could not get anymore cloth after I arrived in 'New Pork City' (the pig city after crossing the pig ruins). So I was unable to make a gas mask and sneezed for full 12 days without getting a break. This came with a constant loss of sanity for each sneeze. While that gave me alot of nightmare fuels which I could trade for many tenpiece fuels, it did not contribute much to the exploration part of Hamlet, since I was basically stuck near the pig city, maintaining my stock of Halberds, food and stuff.

[Atsumame]

Unpopular opinion: Now that people get to play a version of the game where the resources she need don't rain on her and where food choice actually matter, maybe people will start seeing how bad she actually is in general. 

 

[Spep]

1 hour ago, Atsumame said:

Unpopular opinion: Now that people get to play a version of the game where the resources she need don't rain on her and where food choice actually matter, maybe people will start seeing how bad she actually is in general. 

 

but, if the resources she needs to make her armor is so abundant, and when food choice does not matter, would that not mean that wigfrid is good in most cases?

[Atsumame]

45 minutes ago, Shpee said:

but, if the resources she needs to make her armor is so abundant, and when food choice does not matter, would that not mean that wigfrid is good in most cases?

Alright keep in mind this is my opinion. Which is also an end game player who does save files that last 2000+ days. And said opinion doesn't concern DST version of the game since she got a little bit of a nerf there.

Her exclusive gear is ok at the start. Her helmet is just a more durable football helmet (which is RoG/SW are easy to get) and her spear is a midway between the spear and the tentacle spear. What make these somewhat better is her "25% more damage dealt, 25% less damage taken" perk to her. But this true for every better armor and weapon she get that are better than her equipment. Meaning that her equipment become obsolete.

Her "soul steal" mechanic is stronger than her DST version, which is why she's a better tank than wolfgang in singleplayer but not in DST for example. This is actually her strongest asset in singleplayer. But don't be fooled: this power is actually there to balance the next thing to some extent along with her "25% more damage dealt, 25% less damage taken" perk. However both don't fully compensate it fully.

So now we are at her downside. Meat only.

To the un experienced player, this seem like a very little downside while for an experienced player it is so limiting that some people will claim that she has the worst end game. There is so many recipes that aren't meat that are good, ingredients like butterfly wings and mushrooms, and strategies that she can't use at all because of it. 

You want to collect enough honey once a year for a year long food supply so you can base build at your leisure in RoG? Nope. Go be a slave to jerky.

You want to do things like clearing the ruins at lightning speed with coffee? Nope you can't. 

You want to have a relaxing time during lush season in hamlet. I'm sorry man, but you simply can't. 

All this for a little bit of an easier time fighting? Hell no! Even if the world you are playing in rain food on you...you know which fighting character take better advantage of it? Wolfgang.

TL:DR: 

In my opinion she was designed a good learning tool for leaning about fighting then eventually you'd grow out of her and embrace other characters. Sadly people didn't learn to kite and instead tank. Which lead to people clinging to her and made this stigma wigfrid player have nowadays.

[Spep]

2 minutes ago, Atsumame said:

 

You want to collect enough honey once a year for a year long food supply so you can base build at your leisure? Nope. Go be a slave to jerky.

 

im just gonna respond to this little tidbit here, since it affects most of your other points, and since we are talking about DS instead of DST i can bring up one point that makes wigfrid, while not the best, still very good, fire farms, a good firefarm can get ya a nigh unlimited supply of meat, just get some drying racks up and you have nigh unlimited jerky, and along with it nigh unlimited health hunger and sanity, again, not the best, but still good.

[watermelen671]

2 minutes ago, Shpee said:

im just gonna respond to this little tidbit here, since it affects most of your other points, and since we are talking about DS instead of DST i can bring up one point that makes wigfrid, while not the best, still very good, fire farms, a good firefarm can get ya a nigh unlimited supply of meat, just get some drying racks up and you have nigh unlimited jerky, and along with it nigh unlimited health hunger and sanity, again, not the best, but still good.

Inb4 people start bashing you for bringing up fire farms.

Spoiler

Yes I finally got around to updating my sipp. Are you proud of me yet?

 

[Spep]

and, as for the armor issue, tentacle spikes are not renewable, while gold and rocks are, not much else to say there, as for coffee, yes, wigfrid cannot drink coffee, however, WX can completely bypass the need for coffee via thunderbirds

[watermelen671]

Just now, Shpee said:

however, WX can completely bypass the need for coffee via thunderbirds

But...what about thunderbirbs AND coffee???

[Spep]

Just now, watermelen671 said:

But...what about thunderbirbs AND coffee???

+tea 

[Atsumame]

17 minutes ago, Shpee said:

im just gonna respond to this little tidbit here, since it affects most of your other points, and since we are talking about DS instead of DST i can bring up one point that makes wigfrid, while not the best, still very good, fire farms, a good firefarm can get ya a nigh unlimited supply of meat, just get some drying racks up and you have nigh unlimited jerky, and along with it nigh unlimited health hunger and sanity, again, not the best, but still good.

I usually tend to exclude exploits or glitches for a good habit since you never know when or if they are gonna get fixed. 

But if you wanna have all that jerky, why not feed it to the strongman? No downsides here since you can permanently feed him/restore him.

14 minutes ago, Shpee said:

and, as for the armor issue, tentacle spikes are not renewable, while gold and rocks are, not much else to say there, as for coffee, yes, wigfrid cannot drink coffee, however, WX can completely bypass the need for coffee via thunderbirds

They are renewable (In case you didn't knew, the giant tentacles in the caves drop them and the Quacken tentacles drop them too but it's impractical), but tentacle spikes are the king of early game weapons only, In the end game the trio of weapons are dark swords&cutlass supreme (Both easy to obtain and craft, both buyable in hamlet.) and Hambat (Good damage, easy to craft. But it's strong point is infinite durability.).

[Spep]

perhaps, but the point still stands, wigfrid may not be the best cough cough wickerbottom cough cough, but is still quite good

[watermelen671]

17 minutes ago, Shpee said:

+tea 

...Why did I make this?

8 minutes ago, Atsumame said:

I usually tend to exclude exploits or glitches for a good habit since you never know when or if they are gonna get fixed. 

But if you wanna have all that jerky, why not feed it to the strongman? No downsides here since you can permanently feed him/restore him.

They are renewable (In case you didn't knew, the giant tentacles in the caves drop them and the Quacken tentacles drop them too but it's impractical), but tentacle spikes are the king of early game weapons only, In the end game the trio of weapons are dark swords&cutlass supreme (Both easy to obtain and craft, both buyable in hamlet.) and Hambat (Good damage, easy to craft. But it's strong point is infinite durability.).

We're not talking about whether or not Wolfman is better than Wigfrid.

Spoiler

Because that debate has been, and will continue to go on forever.

If we're talking objectively, we all know that there's only one character that crushes the rest of them underneath his silent hand. Wes is bes character to play as, and nothing anybody says can change that fact.

[Atsumame]

2 minutes ago, Shpee said:

perhaps, but the point still stands, wigfrid may not be the best cough cough wickerbottom cough cough, but is still quite good

I'm not saying she has to be the best, on the contrary. I think she's the perfect learning tool for learning combat. She is excellent at that because the combat is way less punishing as her. With her downsides being there to convince the player to move on eventually.

The problem is that people relied on her for combat and the same people are now really feeling her downside now that hamlet exist.

[watermelen671]

Just now, Atsumame said:

I'm not saying she has to be the best, on the contrary. I think she's the perfect learning tool for learning combat. She is excellent at that because the combat is way less punishing as her. With her downsides being there to convince the player to move on eventually.

The problem is that people relied on her for combat and the same people are now really feeling her downside now that hamlet exist.

Um...I just realized this. But Klei seems to be making Hamlet the DLC that kills off RoG's characters. Webber's a victim of Pig racism, and Wigfrid is useless.

How could I have not seen this before?

[Atsumame]

7 minutes ago, watermelen671 said:

If we're talking objectively, we all know that there's only one character that crushes the rest of them underneath his silent hand. Wes is bes character to play as, and nothing anybody says can change that fact.

I only play Wes nowadays. So yes.

[Spep]

 

2 minutes ago, Atsumame said:

I'm not saying she has to be the best, on the contrary. I think she's the perfect learning tool for learning combat. She is excellent at that because the combat is way less punishing as her. With her downsides being there to convince the player to move on eventually.

The problem is that people relied on her for combat and the same people are now really feeling her downside now that hamlet exist.

i must disagree, because to unlock wigfrid in the first place you must have played for quite a while, and at that point they would have either figured out there are better characters or sticked to wendy, making said people that are stuck on wigfrid in DS very rare.

[ToonKuriboh]

4 hours ago, Atsumame said:

You want to collect enough honey once a year for a year long food supply so you can base build at your leisure in RoG? Nope. Go be a slave to jerky.

Honey ham and honey nuggets are still pretty good and it is incredibly easy to get meat with Wigfrid. Wigfrid is not my favorite character, but she is pretty good if you want to be able to fight without any issues. Her helmet and spear are very easy to make and the spear is good enough until you get a steady supply of tentacle spikes and later dark swords. Also, the fact that she gains health and sanity from killing things means she can fight pretty much indefinitely as long as you have the materials to make armor and weapons (And whatever she's fighting drops enough food to sustain her, which is fairly likely). 

Also, as an experienced DS player, the meat thing is not secondarily a huge downside. Of course, it all has to do with playstyle, but spamming honey ham, meatballs and jerky is easy enough. Like all characters, she can be a terrible character if you don't know how to use her right, and she can be a great character if you know how to use her.

Although, again, it all depends on playstyle.

[pedregales]

7 hours ago, Shpee said:

 

i must disagree, because to unlock wigfrid in the first place you must have played for quite a while, and at that point they would have either figured out there are better characters or sticked to wendy, making said people that are stuck on wigfrid in DS very rare.

Not really a good argument considering I unlocked nearly all characters before learning to fight properly. I rarely survived beyond deerclops, and the rare occasions I did kill it, it was with several beefalo herds (lel). And just like I did that, many more could have done it too. She might not be intended as a "fight tutorial" character (which is debatable considering she is a RoG character, which means she comes later than the "original cast"), but many people that don't know how to fight have probably unlocked her already.

[Arctica]

 

I know it's off topic of what everyone discussed earlier but it's still regarding about Wigfrid.

How do you guys manage Wigfrid with hay fever? Since she can't eat Seed Pod/Nettles/Nettle rolls, only option is gas mask but which means the entire lush season is pretty much low sanity, any tips?

I have been using Wigfrid when I unlocked her and so far didn't run into any difficulties but hay fever and it's quite annoying which almost makes me start thinking she *somehow* become useless in hamlet world as well...

[Atsumame]

27 minutes ago, Arctica said:

How do you guys manage Wigfrid with hay fever? Since she can't eat Seed Pod/Nettles/Nettle rolls, only option is gas mask but which means the entire lush season is pretty much low sanity, any tips?

Gas mask + making a large amount of drying racks. For jerky.

[Midnight Tea]

Speaking as someone whose first play with Wigfrid was "wow she's awesome!" I have to concur with Atsumame that the petals fell from this flower pretty quickly . Namely, the first time I preprared for winter seriously (I'm still a very low-tier player, I've not even passed a summer yet and have only killed a couple of bosses)  I learned pretty quickly she can't make use of honey. At all.  This is pretty severe because honey is basically an amazing item. With my limited hands-on experience with Don't Starve I'd even go so far as to say it's one of the best item I'd seen in the whole game. Put honey in an ice box, get a crockpot or two and BAM. You won't starve.  Does Wigfrid not appreciate that honey is still technically an animal product and can in fact be won in battle if you kill a bee? Bleh.

 

Once you know how to bring down a werepig reliably (I'd argue they're much easier to kill that normal pigs) and get a hambat, Wigfrid's spear starts to look a lot less impressive an advantage too -- it take a bit less than six whole days for the hambat to become less powerful than the spear. 

 

So yeah, Wigfried's probably not great in this DLC. But she's kinda not great in general outside of DST, where her ability to craft unique battle gear for her friends is nifty. She's definitely there for people who just cannot get enough of combat, are annoyed by the busywork in between combat encounters (i.e. acquiring gear/protection, maintaining existing gear, maxing health and sanity, becoming mighty) and just wants to hit things. But you're trading away a LOT for that convenience.

Don't Starve also sort of incentivizes methods of defeating the nastiest foes besides just running up to and hitting/kiting them. That strategy is valid but you'll be completely insane if you survive.  And Wigfrid can't even take advantage of rapid sanity restoring foods because almost none of them are meat!  Ouch.

[gallusvarius]

3 hours ago, Arctica said:

I know it's off topic of what everyone discussed earlier but it's still regarding about Wigfrid.

How do you guys manage Wigfrid with hay fever? Since she can't eat Seed Pod/Nettles/Nettle rolls, only option is gas mask but which means the entire lush season is pretty much low sanity, any tips?

I have been using Wigfrid when I unlocked her and so far didn't run into any difficulties but hay fever and it's quite annoying which almost makes me start thinking she *somehow* become useless in hamlet world as well...

Well, my first experiance with Hamlet, I went as Wigfrid. 

I rushed some ruins in earlier seasons, I spent much of my humid season doing so because I foolishly skipped making a pith-hat to deal with fog/humidity. I found the pig city with the queen in it and bought myself a tam-o-shanter (Lots of money from selling relics. I was also buying myself plenty of meaty food items, mostly turkey dinner because it's cheaper than honey ham but still heals pretty good. It just spoils fast, but that's okay if you intend to eat it within a day or two.), but I really wanted to buy a gas-mask, because I believe you can buy one there at the hat store. I couldn't get her to put one up for sale though, so I gave up and worked on making one with the single piece of cloth I got. 
You can take the gasmask on and off to preserve it's durability, I made a single gas-mask last most of the season that way. You can let yourself sneeze when in your house or anywhere else trustworthy and just flick the mask on to relieve yourself of fever, then take it off and let fever build up again...

If you're loosing sanity. Kill something, kill the nightmares, get nightmare fuel and sell it I suppose, get rich? That's what I did. I regretted using my Tam to build sanity in lush season actually, as I found I wanted nightmare fuel.
One of Wigfrid's good sides is that sanity can be restored with her. There are plenty of things in the jungle, and you can avoid wasting materials if you kite well. If you kite well, then there is only profit to be made from battle, but that goes for any character I believe. Sanity should hopefully not be so much of a problem with her, even with sneezing. The thing I hated about sneezing was dropping my items and getting momentarily stunned, but even with the stun effect, I had no problem destroyed the insanity creatures that came. Dropping items is more problematic. I would hate to drop a valuable coin or some of my crockpot food in-front of the villagers who might steal or eat it. 
There does seem to be something called an Oscillating fan though. I never tried to make it, because I was spending my lush season in preparation for killing the queen Womant. But it's in the science tab and it said it could help with hay fever. Maybe we should look into that for, well, any purpose at all.
As for the womant... I hired some guards and went after her, found her, but I broke my helmet somewhere on the way in and failed to notice. I fought her for a while without a helmet and took heavy damage. Eventually I put one on, but I was at like, 25 HP, it wasn't good. I managed to kill her, sucking life from killing her minions kept me alive, but only long enough to kill her. Afterwards I promptly died from something hitting me, dunno what. Probably one of her minions again. It was kind of hilarious to me, or so to say, I laughed. 

Otherwise of charging in against a boss and forgetting my helmet and being ultimately punished for it, I felt my run was pretty successful. I'm trying out WX now, I was curious about those thunder birds. I suppose I'll see how that goes.   With that WX game, I am currently annoyed with the general store owner because he won't put an umbrella for sale and it's pouring rain.
Logical earthly shop-keepers sell umbrellas where it rains and when it rains. But apparently not this guy. 

I am curious about the oscillating fan though. That's probably the answer to the question with wigfrid and hayfever, and what I should have probably said instead of rambling about my hamlet experiences. But sometime I should aim for that fan and see how it works. Maybe with WX.  It seems we're forced to buy gears in the city with the queen pig, frustratingly, and it needs two. I'd get one first for a fridge before I went for the fan, so that'd mean three for me. I suppose I'll have to get lucky. Sometimes they have useless junk I don't want for sale and won't sell what I actually do want, and I end up buying stuff I don't care for that clogs my inventory just so I can get them to sell what I want.
Happened with hats, needing umbrellas, and also frustrated me when the deli would only have vegetarian items for sale - Though I have to say, my situation with WX is currently more urgent, as those plant-things are abundant in the jungles and you can eat leafy meat if you must. 

On this game with WX, I made a pith-hat this time. I don't like humidity. I'll be able to eat nettles and tree seeds for relief from hay fever though, so I shouldn't need to worry so much about the gas-mask... I hope. 

Oh, I forgot to mention. You're worried about sneezes causing insanity, right? It appears that the gas-mask really drains your sanity, or at least it did for me, for whatever reason. It wasn't wet. I think supposedly the feathers don't smell good or it's unpleasant to breathe through? Lush season may doom Wigfrid to insanity if you don't fight things, but some people might be okay with that. I suppose if you rush to find the queen's city and buy a tam. 

Okay, I should stop rambling now. I hope my experiences provide some information for people, at least. 

[Arctica]

On 11/13/2018 at 11:16 PM, gallusvarius said:

I am curious about the oscillating fan though. That's probably the answer to the question with wigfrid and hayfever, and what I should have probably said instead of rambling about my hamlet experiences. But sometime I should aim for that fan and see how it works. Maybe with WX.  It seems we're forced to buy gears in the city with the queen pig, frustratingly, and it needs two. I'd get one first for a fridge before I went for the fan, so that'd mean three for me. I suppose I'll have to get lucky. Sometimes they have useless junk I don't want for sale and won't sell what I actually do want, and I end up buying stuff I don't care for that clogs my inventory just so I can get them to sell what I want.
Happened with hats, needing umbrellas, and also frustrated me when the deli would only have vegetarian items for sale - Though I have to say, my situation with WX is currently more urgent, as those plant-things are abundant in the jungles and you can eat leafy meat if you must. 

After 2 weeks asking that question I found myself the answer in the game lol

I figured out the peagawk Plumes that crafts the gas mask is easily obtain during full moon, without any tool/bait, you can easily obtain 7 feathers per peagawk, almost every full moon I will definitely go and find peagawk since crafting gas mask is so important if you're playing as wigfrid.

Oscillating fan is also another option where it's definitely a life saver during Lush season, it takes some time to gather resource but it's not impossible. which just means Wigfrid *probably* better stay in house/ around base during Lush season, just stock up more jerky.

I do find the pig trader in those shop keep putting the item I don't want to purchase and there's no other way to renew/access the item I want soooo I killed the trader and deal with the guards.

*Without* new pig respawn in the store, the item themselves renewed on the shelf and as I steal all and walk out the door (and deal with Krampus since I steal a lot.... lol), the items are renewed AGAIN themselves without the pig around....so I repeat the process until I get the gear.....not sure if Klei is going to patch it in future (please don't jk) 

[Rellimarual]

If you get the key to the city from the queen you can build shops right next to your shack and visit them everyday. The stock will change from day to day, although not a lot. I built three grocers in my Wig city and was never short of meat after that

[gallusvarius]

1 hour ago, Arctica said:

After 2 weeks asking that question I found myself the answer in the game lol

I figured out the peagawk Plumes that crafts the gas mask is easily obtain during full moon, without any tool/bait, you can easily obtain 7 feathers per peagawk, almost every full moon I will definitely go and find peagawk since crafting gas mask is so important if you're playing as wigfrid.

Oscillating fan is also another option where it's definitely a life saver during Lush season, it takes some time to gather resource but it's not impossible. which just means Wigfrid *probably* better stay in house/ around base during Lush season, just stock up more jerky.

I do find the pig trader in those shop keep putting the item I don't want to purchase and there's no other way to renew/access the item I want soooo I killed the trader and deal with the guards.

*Without* new pig respawn in the store, the item themselves renewed on the shelf and as I steal all and walk out the door (and deal with Krampus since I steal a lot.... lol), the items are renewed AGAIN themselves without the pig around....so I repeat the process until I get the gear.....not sure if Klei is going to patch it in future (please don't jk) 

Nice.
Yeah, I figured out the fan was just for indoors. Still interesting. 
Theoretically, it would be hilarious if I could literally cover the world in fans so Hayfever no longer existed XD However, that would be a truly impossible amount of fans, in no way plausible at all... 
I can just see Wigfrid enjoying her Lush season season with a secret fan under every bush, though. 

For me, as I've played a bit more now, I think I've figured it out a bit more. Insanity as Wigfrid isn't so bad, I can get hp from killing nightmare beaks and crawling horrors, allowing me to get hp from my own insanity. That and nightmare fuel sells for so much. I don't really mind the sneezing in lush season. Gas mask is still a priority of mine, but one lush season I couldn't get enough peacock feathers and ended up sneezing the entire season. It wasn't that bad, I got super rich off of all the nightmare fuel. 

Ah, stealing. I did do some stealing as WX but not any murder, as it was back when I could just wait for shopkeepers to sleep. I wonder if I could use a sleep dart for the same purpose now.
I like to avoid stealing as Wigfrid because I don't feel like it's something she, as a character, would do. But that's just me personally.