Liquid Oxygen

[Oni Noob]

Whats the best and most efficient way of getting liquid oxygen. My plan is to cool of super coolant using aquatuner then run it through the radiant pipes too cool the oxygen but I am not sure if thats the best way. I am thinking it might take time before I can even get 1 kg of LOX

[KittenIsAGeek]

.... Use an aquatuner with supercoolant to bring oxygen down to its condensation point.   

[qda]

That's probably the best way right now (by best i mean a good ratio of complexity/output). You can also use thermo regulators with hydrogen, but you should at least build 4 of them to have a decent LOX output, and as with aquatuners, you need to deal with the generated heat.

[clickrush]

If you want to make liquid oxygen and don't have the super coolant yet, then the most efficient way is to use thermo regulators with a closed hydrogen loop. Note that if you use pumps to move the hydrogen then it becomes less efficient. A closed thermo regulator loop with hydrogen and pumping is slightly less efficient than aquatuners with liquid oxygen as the coolant. I say this because I saw video tutorials that don't use a closed loop.

[KittenIsAGeek]

The only trouble with a hydrogen loop is that you either need a lot of hydrogen or you need to carefully regulate the oxygen you put into the system.  There are quite a few of these builds posted on this forum and they do still work. *shrug*

[Oni Noob]

I got around 700 kg of Super Coolant, would that be enough?

[KittenIsAGeek]

Plenty.

[Lilalaunekuh]

I think even 100kg could be enough.

Long answer:

- For max efficiency you only need 10kg to run the aquatuner with a full packet of super coolant to achieve the 1.181.600DTU/s using only 1200W.

- If you want some efficacy you should have more super coolant depend on the size of your cooling loop and at least

- If I assume at least radiant liquid pipes you shouldn´t need a big loop (using tempshift plates even less)

(1.181.600DTU/s means 10Kg of super coolant can condense 4,27Kg of oxygen coming from an (self-cooling) electrolyzer at 345K. )

[Gurgel]

2 hours ago, qda said:

That's probably the best way right now (by best i mean a good ratio of complexity/output). You can also use thermo regulators with hydrogen, but you should at least build 4 of them to have a decent LOX output, and as with aquatuners, you need to deal with the generated heat.

You need about 1.5 WWs per Thermo Regulator for the heat. Just place them in Hydrogen as well and put WWs in between. I would also recommend to plan for extension of that facility, as 4 Thermo Regulators are still pretty slow. 

[Yoma_Nosme]

The last time I did a lox machine I built the thermo regulators parallel (4piece I think) but I've wondered if it's better to build them in series.

In other words. 4 cooling loops inside the condensing chambers each with 1 tr or 1 cooling loop with 4 tr.

Whats your opinions on whats better?

Note. That was before they introduced radiant pipes...so yeah that was some time ago because they buffed sand so basically deodoriser were less hassle than lox machine so I haven't tried since.

[Oni Noob]

Thanks for the tip guys, I am now able to produce liquid Oxygen

[qda]

6 hours ago, Gurgel said:

You need about 1.5 WWs per Thermo Regulator for the heat. Just place them in Hydrogen as well and put WWs in between. I would also recommend to plan for extension of that facility, as 4 Thermo Regulators are still pretty slow. 

Thanks for the precisions, I only built a messy one a long time ago, sounds rather easy !

[qda]

In fact this is for 500g packets, the ratio WW/TR is 1.4. Might aswell use 1000g packets for lesser power consumption, meaning a 2.8 WW/TR ratio

[Gurgel]

1 hour ago, qda said:

In fact this is for 500g packets, the ratio WW/TR is 1.4. Might aswell use 1000g packets for lesser power consumption, meaning a 2.8 WW/TR ratio

It is. You do not save on pumping, but the TRs take about half the power per output unit with that.

8 hours ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

1181600DTU/s(Aquatuner running super coolant)  /  33600DTU/s (Thermo regulator running hydrogen)  * cycle/600 = 11.487cycle

=> Running one full packet of super coolant, which takes 1s moves the same heat like one thermal regulator runnign 11,487 cycles ...

The way I understand it, all removed heat immediately materializes on the outside. So basically, if you run super coolant through an Aquatuner, the immediate surrounding gets nuked....

[Carnis]

9 hours ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

1181600DTU/s(Aquatuner running super coolant)  /  33600DTU/s (Thermo regulator running hydrogen)  * cycle/600 = 11.487cycle

=> Running one full packet of super coolant, which takes 1s moves the same heat like one thermal regulator runnign 11,487 cycles ...

 

So if you want some reasonable output to fly a rocket with your liquid oxygen, I would highly suggest getting at least 10Kg of super coolant

Erm. No.

1181600 / 33600 = 35,16

Supercoolant wins by 35:1 ratio, but IT only takes 35 thermoregs to stay Even, not 11k..

[Glassyfo]

9 minutes ago, Carnis said:

Erm. No.

1181600 / 33600 = 35,16

Supercoolant wins by 35:1 ratio, but IT only takes 35 thermoregs to stay Even, not 11k..

Not 11k, he wrote 11. Can everyone just pick a decimal standard and stick to it?

[Carnis]

29 minutes ago, bleeter6 said:

Not 11k, he wrote 11. Can everyone just pick a decimal standard and stick to it?

His numbers are nonsensical, can we agree on that? 11 comes from where?

[KittenIsAGeek]

Time.  11 cycles vs 1 packet.  He divided by 600 at the end there to give cycle time for the thermo regulators.

[Lilalaunekuh]

Ok, sry guys for the confusion.

Was a bit sleepy and entered: 1181600/2400*14/600 into the google search

=> Should be 1181600/(2400*14)/600 = 0.05861111111 cycles

 

(Should have realized that my numbers were a bit high ...)

[Gurgel]

10 hours ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

Ok, sry guys for the confusion.

Was a bit sleepy and entered: 1181600/2400*14/600 into the google search

=> Should be 1181600/(2400*14)/600 = 0.05861111111 cycles

 

(Should have realized that my numbers were a bit high ...)

Meh, I was really looking forward to try that effect....

[crypticorb]

15 hours ago, Gurgel said:

It is. You do not save on pumping, but the TRs take about half the power per output unit with that.

The way I understand it, all removed heat immediately materializes on the outside. So basically, if you run super coolant through an Aquatuner, the immediate surrounding gets nuked....

Not exactly. The thermo-regulators and aquatuners yank the heat out of the gas/liquid passing through them, and put the heat into the structure. This is a key point, because it means you can't just use any material to cool the structure. Hydrogen with WWs works well, or dripping liquid, while submerging an aquatuner is required, unless you use thermium.