Critters help

[thejams]

Please help me understand critters:

Wild critters alway reproduce (it doesn't matter if they are overcrowded or confined) and they need 60% their max age in cycles to lay an egg?

Tamed critters always reproduce unless "Expecting", but reproduce 9x faster than wild when happy?
Even if overcrowded or confined, they will continue to reproduce at the wild rate, as long as no eggs are present?
They reproduce even when not fed with the same speed as wild, but none will live long enough to lay an egg before starving?

[Sasza22]

Wild critters lay one egg during their lifetime unless confined (if they spawn in really small rooms). Generally a wild critter will spawn another one. Wild critters don`t starve.

Tame critters eat 4 times more than wild and reporduce much faster (i`m not sure about the numbers). They require grooming to maintain that. They get expecting (currently called "cramped") based on the number of critters + eggs in the room. A 96 tile room can support 8 critters. If not fed they die. When overcrowded they remaing glum. Same if not groomed.

Glum critters eat 5 times less than normal and reproduce like wild ones. Tame critters die after 10 cycles of starvation. For shinebugs and pacu it`s enough to lay a single egg. Other die off before doing that.

[thejams]

@Sasza22 Thank you for your replies.

Are you sure about "confined" wild critters not reproducing (according to the ONI biology thread "confined" affects only metabolism rate in wild and tamed critters)?

Does "cramped" happen if there are no eggs in the room?

So basically even if tamed, overcrowded and not fed, Pacu will keep on laying one egg before they die as long as the egg is moved out to hatch elsewhere.  So basically one can breed a large number and let em be and the number will stay stable providing an infinite meat farm?

[Neotuck]

Search "ONI biology"

A thread on this topic was created that should be a very big help for you

[thejams]

20 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

Search "ONI biology"

A thread on this topic was created that should be a very big help for you

 

30 minutes ago, thejams said:

...(according to the ONI biology thread ...

I read that post pretty carefully and asked the question afterwards trying to confirm what I understood from it.  Still unclear on some of the things.

[Neotuck]

4 minutes ago, thejams said:

 

I read that post pretty carefully and asked the question afterwards trying to confirm what I understood from it.  Still unclear on some of the things.

Sorry I am on my smartphone didn't see the whole post.  I'll be back on in an hour to see if I can help

[Fischer_L]

59 minutes ago, thejams said:

@Sasza22 Thank you for your replies.

Are you sure about "confined" wild critters not reproducing (according to the ONI biology thread "confined" affects only metabolism rate in wild and tamed critters)?

Does "cramped" happen if there are no eggs in the room?

So basically even if tamed, overcrowded and not fed, Pacu will keep on laying one egg before they die as long as the egg is moved out to hatch elsewhere.  So basically one can breed a large number and let em be and the number will stay stable providing an infinite meat farm?

You are right about pacu. They do work like you described now. You still need maintain comfortable temperature.

Not sure about wild "confined" critters, but i have found in a past some egg shells and meat in 2-3 tiles "caves". And confined glum tamed critters doesn't lay eggs.

[Neotuck]

You'll have to wait till I get home to send a pic but in my latest colony I keep all my 26C water in one large room (over 400 tiles)

I have been dropping wild pacu in there as I explore the map and have been getting lots of meat and egg shells from them.

I haven't counted (over 30) but even in a large room of water they are overcrowded but the egg laying rate hasn't changed.

[thejams]

12 minutes ago, Fischer_L said:

You are right about pacu. They do work like you described now. You still need maintain comfortable temperature.

Not sure about wild "confined" critters, but i have found in a past some egg shells and meat in 2-3 tiles "caves". And confined glum tamed critters doesn't lay eggs.

That doesn't add up - According to ONI Biology, "Glum" means Happiness < 0.  Tamed creatures are at default -1 happiness and Pacu can only get 2 happiness from "Ate from feeder".  So basically they don't reproduce if tamed unless given the buff?

4 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

You'll have to wait till I get home to send a pic but in my latest colony I keep all my 26C water in one large room (over 400 tiles)

I have been dropping wild pacu in there as I explore the map and have been getting lots of meat and egg shells from them.

I haven't counted (over 30) but even in a large room of water they are overcrowded but the egg laying rate hasn't changed.

Exactly my plan 

[Fischer_L]

1 minute ago, thejams said:

That doesn't add up - According to ONI Biology, "Glum" means Happiness < 0.  Tamed creatures are at default -1 happiness and Pacu can only get 2 happiness from "Ate from feeder".  So basically they don't reproduce if tamed unless given the buff?

Confined, not overcrowded.

it's the same slickster.

[psusi]

1 hour ago, thejams said:

That doesn't add up - According to ONI Biology, "Glum" means Happiness < 0.  Tamed creatures are at default -1 happiness and Pacu can only get 2 happiness from "Ate from feeder".  So basically they don't reproduce if tamed unless given the buff?

Glum doesn't stop reproduction; it just returns metabolism and reproduction rates to their wild levels.

[Neotuck]

2 hours ago, thejams said:

Exactly my plan 

Here's that pic I promised the total room size is 436

don't know how many wild pacu there are  (too lazy to count)

[Sasza22]

4 hours ago, thejams said:

Does "cramped" happen if there are no eggs in the room?

It counts critters + eggs so it should happen with no eggs as well. unless it changed lately.

[psusi]

Oh poo.  I did not realize that expecting stops all egg laying.. I thought it just went back to the wild rate.  Aparently to keep tons of overcrowded pacu you have to pick up the eggs as soon as they are laid and let them hatch elsewhere.  How do you automate that?

 

[Neotuck]

14 minutes ago, psusi said:

Oh poo.  I did not realize that expecting stops all egg laying.. I thought it just went back to the wild rate.  Aparently to keep tons of overcrowded pacu you have to pick up the eggs as soon as they are laid and let them hatch elsewhere.  How do you automate that?

 

this is why I keep them wild, see my pic?

works great and they only have the overcrowded stat so they lay eggs normally

[Xuhybrid]

18 minutes ago, psusi said:

Oh poo.  I did not realize that expecting stops all egg laying.. I thought it just went back to the wild rate.  Aparently to keep tons of overcrowded pacu you have to pick up the eggs as soon as they are laid and let them hatch elsewhere.  How do you automate that?

 

You could pick them up with the conveyor system. Not sure how you'd automatically drop it back on the floor from conveyor or compactor.

[Neotuck]

2 minutes ago, Xuhybrid said:

You could pick them up with the conveyor system. Not sure how you'd automatically drop it back on the floor from conveyor or compactor.

That's easy, use an automation loop to turn a sweeper off every 3 seconds

it will drop anything it tries to sweep

46 minutes ago, psusi said:

Oh poo.  I did not realize that expecting stops all egg laying.. I thought it just went back to the wild rate.  Aparently to keep tons of overcrowded pacu you have to pick up the eggs as soon as they are laid and let them hatch elsewhere.  How do you automate that?

If you really want tamed pacu you can try this

all eggs get swept up and dropped on the mesh tile

the eggs are outside the room so they don't effect the overcrowded stat and they can incubate out of water

when they hatch the fry flop over and fall though the pneumatic doors into the water 

[RonEmpire]

If you have the expecting/cramped debuff because the egg is causing it,  then what you do is take the egg out and drop it into a open door prismatic cage.  it will be isolated.  but its open door  so it can hatch and flop out of it or  just float out of it in case of pufts.  

I use the open door trick to ensure eggs don't affect the expecting debuff.   the door is considered a separate tiny room of its own.

usually if you're getting overcrowded you're very close to the cramped/expecting debuff stage.  which means they're inside a 'room' that doesn't have enough space, so check all the tiles and doors around to see if its being 'contained.     the solution is to get rid of a tile or door to make it an open room.  use a 2x2 water lock if you need to. this makes it open and prevents critters from escaping.  

[PhailRaptor]

The easiest solution when keeping Pacu in an unfed state is to just not enclose the space.  If it's not a room, no way any of them to get Overcrowded or Expecting.

[Kabrute]

open screen doors in the bottom of the tank.....

[Neotuck]

36 minutes ago, PhailRaptor said:

The easiest solution when keeping Pacu in an unfed state is to just not enclose the space.  If it's not a room, no way any of them to get Overcrowded or Expecting.

they can still get overcrowded 

[psusi]

18 hours ago, Neotuck said:

this is why I keep them wild, see my pic?

You mean you just trap and relocate all the ones that spawned on the map and never breed more?

18 hours ago, Neotuck said:

f you really want tamed pacu you can try this

all eggs get swept up and dropped on the mesh tile

the eggs are outside the room so they don't effect the overcrowded stat and they can incubate out of water

when they hatch the fry flop over and fall though the pneumatic doors into the water 

Wait, why would they fall through the door?

17 hours ago, RonEmpire said:

If you have the expecting/cramped debuff because the egg is causing it,  then what you do is take the egg out and drop it into a open door prismatic cage.  it will be isolated.  but its open door  so it can hatch and flop out of it or  just float out of it in case of pufts.  

Ahh of course; just leave the door open!

11 hours ago, PhailRaptor said:

The easiest solution when keeping Pacu in an unfed state is to just not enclose the space.  If it's not a room, no way any of them to get Overcrowded or Expecting.

It's always a room even if it is > 96 tiles.

[Neotuck]

7 minutes ago, psusi said:

You mean you just trap and relocate all the ones that spawned on the map and never breed more?

That's what I do yes, there's usually over 30 wild ones on the map and that's enough for me

7 minutes ago, psusi said:

Wait, why would they fall through the door?

The fry flop around until they are over a door then fall though.  The doors don't have to be open, pacu can fall though closed ones.

[psusi]

7 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

The fry flop around until they are over a door then fall though.  The doors don't have to be open, pacu can fall though closed ones.

Seriously?  How is that a thing?  No other critter falls through doors.  Then again, other critters still won't fall through them even if they are open, unless they are vertical instead of horizontal.

[RonEmpire]

8 hours ago, psusi said:

Seriously?  How is that a thing?  No other critter falls through doors.  Then again, other critters still won't fall through them even if they are open, unless they are vertical instead of horizontal.

I haven't tested prismatic closed doors horizontal for fish flopping.

But if fishes flop through the closed prismatic door horizontal, then its probably being treated like an object and not a living thing.  since all the objects fall through prismatic doors.

On ‎10‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 4:05 PM, Neotuck said:

That's easy, use an automation loop to turn a sweeper off every 3 seconds

it will drop anything it tries to sweep

If you really want tamed pacu you can try this

all eggs get swept up and dropped on the mesh tile

the eggs are outside the room so they don't effect the overcrowded stat and they can incubate out of water

when they hatch the fry flop over and fall though the pneumatic doors into the water 

I would tweak this design a bit to lower the water level. and have one tile open to the rest of the world (a tile that is below your top room), to prevent overcrowded  ( incase you plan to breed more into the pool.)

On ‎10‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 1:44 PM, Neotuck said:

Here's that pic I promised the total room size is 436

don't know how many wild pacu there are  (too lazy to count)

for me to keep track of pack counts.  I usually put a critter drop off building and seal the area and it gives you a total count, and then you can delete the seal tile and make it open room again.