Sustainability for more than 8 dupes - how the hell?

[Neotuck]

15 minutes ago, thejams said:

Well I guess that works as long as the average consumption is less than 1KW...

what's wrong with 2Kw?  I have ran 2Kw circuits all the time with no problems

[psusi]

1 hour ago, Parusoid said:

I thought bottles still simply drop from terrariums 

Nope; it's just like the outhouse: once it's full it stops working and says it needs to be emptied and a dupe has to come by with a plunger.

1 hour ago, thejams said:

The small transformer can only provide 1KW to the outside circuit and the conductive wire can carry 2KW.  So if you want to provide 2KW to the circuit you need to connect 2 small transformers.  With 1 your machines can start running out of power intermittently as soon as consumption goes above 1KW which is pretty easy to do considering you have 1,2KW machines connected.

You would think so, but it doesn't seem to work that way.  IIRC, I have a bit over 2kw of machines on one circuit and never seen them run out of power.  That circuit also transfers 2kw of power to another smart battery that is on a toggle between charging off the main circuit and feeding power to the door and algae distiller and air pumps in my puft ranch.

1 hour ago, thejams said:

IMO your power production is severely inadequate, however it depends a lot on the pace you want to play.  TBH, and I mean no offense, there is nothing stopping you in continuing the map at the snail pace you have been playing it so far, but if you're looking to improve the speed, you will need a lot more production and a lot more power.

My batteries are always full.  What else can I use power on?

58 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

This is not the first time I seen some one suggest using 2 small transformers to make a 2kW circuit for conductive wires

Is that more or less effective than using a normal transformer automated with a smart battery? (what I usually use)

sometimes I even plant a wheeze for temp control

Why would you automate it with a battery?  Every time you toggle it off you lose the 1kj internal buffer, and the battery has runoff too.

 

[Neotuck]

3 minutes ago, psusi said:

Why would you automate it with a battery?  Every time you toggle it off you lose the 1kj internal buffer, and the battery has runoff too.

Old habit, mostly it was to save heat and allow for 2kW circuits

but I guess it's no longer necessary now that transformers can emit 4kJ

as shown in this pic I am powering 2 tepidizers with one transformer, that's a 1920w circuit off one transformer and it works fine

I have no idea why @thejams says it needs to be under 1kW

[psusi]

4 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

as shown in this pic I am powering 2 tepidizers with one transformer, that's a 1920w circuit off one transformer and it works fine

That looks like the big transformer.  Use the small one.  It *shouldn't* work, but it seems to work just fine to me.

[thejams]

52 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

what's wrong with 2Kw?  I have ran 2Kw circuits all the time with no problems

Because with 1 transformer the circuit is provided only 1KW.  Sure the battery averages the consumption and in most case you will only spike above 1KW occasionally which will be smoothed out by the battery (can't say I understand why it happens).  And as I said as long as the average consumption is 1KW or less, the 1KW delivery from the transformer will catch up and refill the battery when consumption is low.

Example 1: this drains the battery and the second tepidizer will stop working once it's empty

Example 2: This runs continuously, the battery slowly charges.

31 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

I have no idea why @thejams says it needs to be under 1kW

Cause I was talking about small transformers.  My solution helps protect against overload...

This:

[Neotuck]

6 minutes ago, thejams said:

Cause I was talking about small transformers.  My solution helps protect against overload...

you missed my original question:

why use 2 small transformers when 1 large transformers works just fine and emit less heat?

[crypticorb]

6 hours ago, thejams said:

You also need to sort out your power asap.  Start using the Oil refinery and setup a Petroleum generator.  Build some kind of a power tower with multiple generators inside (Petroleum, NGG, Coal) connected with heavy watt wires.  Have multiple conductive wire branches going out towards your consumers each via 2 small transformers like this:

Try to even out the load on each branch.

Why two small transformers? Would a single large transformer not function for this purpose for some reason? Or is it a method of saving refined metal?

For 2kW circuits, the large transformer always seems to work nicely, particularly when properly controlled with automation and a power shutoff.

[Neotuck]

10 minutes ago, psusi said:

That looks like the big transformer.  Use the small one.  It *shouldn't* work, but it seems to work just fine to me.

tried with small and it started to brown out

[thejams]

2 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

you missed my original question:

why use 2 small transformers when 1 large transformers works just fine and emit less heat?

You quoted my answer:

1 minute ago, crypticorb said:

Why two small transformers? Would a single large transformer not function for this purpose for some reason? Or is it a method of saving refined metal?

For 2kW circuits, the large transformer always seems to work nicely, particularly when properly controlled with automation and a power shutoff.

If your circuit peaks above 2KW, 2 small transformers will not cause overload damage, 1 large will.

[Neotuck]

1 minute ago, thejams said:

You quoted my answer:

why make a 3kW circuit? 

duh that will overload no mater what transformers you use

[Jadelink]

For such a tiny number of dupes, the key to sustainability in food is wild farming.  Wild pinchapeppers last forever, as do sleetwheat, if you make sure the cold biomes are left with a few strategically placed wheezeworts.   I also take care to conserve wild berries in the starting biome, as then you don't need water, just a light on them.

I find crafting a base around my permaculture spots is an interesting challenge, aesthetically as well as efficiency wise, but I like to do my early-mid game as if I had to run the base for 2k+ cycles with bad luck on the vents.  (I have run over 1k cycles before, but never 2k in practice).

Sustainable food for a much larger crew is quite easy if you do this.  You have also added ranching for the surplus meat.  You can also 'deathcraft' pond fish.  You feed fish in an aquarium till they grow a couple of dozen, and harvest the bodies from the bottom of the tank once they die of old age.  (Just put an unpowered Co2 stored fridge nearby, set to meat and store at priority 7 or so).  They keep static numbers for ever with no food (and drop eggshells, 2k per egg, which was why i started doing this in a map before fossils were added). 

You get water from your guaranteed steam vents and your nat gas geyser/s, as well as duplicant urine.  Your one geyser seemed to be fine doing 8 dupes worth of o2 forever, which is nice, a second geyser of any type of steam or slush will keep at least another 4 dupes, unless it's a truly dud one, and it's very rare to not have at least 2 in total on a map (3 + is more common).

[crypticorb]

2 minutes ago, thejams said:

If your circuit peaks above 2KW, 2 small transformers will not cause overload damage, 1 large will.

Hm, I'll give this a shot in my sandbox in a bit, seems useful. Not sure it's needed for >2kW circuits, but useful.

I'll post some test results when I get some time.

[Neotuck]

4 minutes ago, thejams said:

If your circuit peaks above 2KW, 2 small transformers will not cause overload damage, 1 large will.

why would any one make circuits over 2kW?

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

Just now, Neotuck said:

why make a 3kW circuit? 

duh that will overload no mater what transformers you use

No. 2 small transformers can only give 2kw of power, whereas the big transformer can go beyond that. Given it's a conductive wire, if it pulls more than 2kw it will overload and damage.

However, I still don't get why it wouldn't overload with the battery inbetween. If the battery has enough store, it should be able to provide more than 2kw for a while. Also, this system should not be able to run 3 960w devices at the same time. Bugs? Glitches?

[psusi]

3 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

why make a 3kW circuit? 

duh that will overload no mater what transformers you use

I think he's saying that with two transformers, it will just brown out rather than overload.  I wonder why I've never noticed anything browning out with just one.  I guess it's just never all on at the same time.  But I don't even get brownouts when the downstream smart battery is charging as fast as it can suck power through that transformer.

 

[Neotuck]

so we are trading overload for brown outs?

why do we have to make the choice? I would rather have nether

[psusi]

1 minute ago, Neotuck said:

so we are trading overload for brown outs?

why do we have to make the choice? I would rather have nether

The only way to get neither is to be sure that you never connect more than 2kw of potential load to the circuit.  Most people like to put more stuff on knowing that it isn't all going to switch on at the same time.  If you happen to get a moment where enough of it is on at the same time to exceed 2kw, better to have some brown out than fry the wires.

[Neotuck]

Just now, psusi said:

The only way to get neither is to be sure that you never connect more than 2kw of potential load to the circuit.  Most people like to put more stuff on knowing that it isn't all going to switch on at the same time.  If you happen to get a moment where enough of it is on at the same time to exceed 2kw, better to have some brown out than fry the wires.

Ah I see

I have always been OCD about my circuits and never allow the potential pull go over 2kW

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

1 minute ago, psusi said:

The only way to get neither is to be sure that you never connect more than 2kw of potential load to the circuit.  Most people like to put more stuff on knowing that it isn't all going to switch on at the same time.  If you happen to get a moment where enough of it is on at the same time to exceed 2kw, better to have some brown out than fry the wires.

Again, what I don't get is why the wires would not overload, when the load is beyond 2kw, with the battery inbetween.

[Fischer_L]

4 minutes ago, psusi said:

The only way to get neither is to be sure that you never connect more than 2kw of potential load to the circuit.  Most people like to put more stuff on knowing that it isn't all going to switch on at the same time.  If you happen to get a moment where enough of it is on at the same time to exceed 2kw, better to have some brown out than fry the wires.

Sometimes brown out can be very destructive. E.g. if you have brown-out on meteor scanners when doors start to closing, then it revert signal, doors starts to open, then power restored and door closing again, then again and again, then comets start to destroy your solar power.

[thejams]

1 minute ago, Neotuck said:

so we are trading overload for brown outs?

why do we have to make the choice? I would rather have nether

You will quite often have small spikes in consumption but usually things don't run 24/7.  So you can:

1) choose to separate machines on a circuit so that they don't combine to more than 2KW,

2) run a large transformer and more than 2KW consuption and pray they never turn on at the same time

3) run 2 small transformers and don't care when the 10 exo suits docks all need to charge at the same time (yeah sure, some will charge few seconds later)

[Neotuck]

Just now, thejams said:

You will quite often have small spikes in consumption but usually things don't run 24/7.  So you can:

1) choose to separate machines on a circuit so that they don't combine to more than 2KW,

2) run a large transformer and more than 2KW consuption and pray they never turn on at the same time

3) run 2 small transformers and don't care when the 10 exo suits docks all need to charge at the same time (yeah sure, some will charge few seconds later)

I always chose option 1

It may seem repetitive to make a lot of individual circuits but I like the "build and forget" option once successful 

[psusi]

4 minutes ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

Again, what I don't get is why the wires would not overload, when the load is beyond 2kw, with the battery inbetween.

It sure should.  If it doesn't that's a bug.

[thejams]

7 minutes ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

Again, what I don't get is why the wires would not overload, when the load is beyond 2kw, with the battery inbetween.

With the battery in-between they will overload - sorry my example was wrong.  They don't overload only when directly connected to transformers (without a battery in the 2KW circuit)

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

1 minute ago, psusi said:

It sure should.  If it doesn't that's a bug.

I rechecked. I got confused by the flurry of the pictures. I thought the one with 2 small transformers, one smart battery had 3 tepidizers. It only has 2.

1 minute ago, thejams said:

With the battery in-between they will overload - sorry my example was wrong.  They don't overload only when directly connected to transformers (without a battery in the 2KW circuit)

Yes that makes sense.