Does atmosphere matter to radiators?

[chemie]

Assuming you have have 2 radiator pipes immediately adjacent with transfer plates, does the surrounding atmosphere affect the heat transferred between the radiators? Or do the pipes directly exchange heat between them.  I am wondering if the heat exchanger room needs a specific gas to improve efficiency.

[goatt]

According to my exp, my guess on formula of thermal conductivity is

Spoiler

thermal conductivity = a * c

where a is average thermal conductivity in that tile,

and c is some constant number, which is 1 in my guess.

For example, insulate pipe going thru metal tile, final conductivity will be

(0.something+60+liquid’s)/3=20ish, meaning the temperature of the liquid in pipe will impact the environment big ways, which completely negates the insulation pipe’s effect

Spoiler

With gas with conductivity of say 0.1

conductivity will be (60[pipe’s]+60[pipe’s]+liquid1+liquid2+60[tempshift’s]+0.1)/6

Is about 30

Without gas, we don’t need to add gas

 Conductivity will be (60[pipe’s]+60[pipe’s]+liquid1+liquid2+60[tempshift’s])/5

is about 36

In my theory, if you wanna encourage exchange, leave the tiles with temp****s vacuum.

If you don’t have tempshifts, liquid or gas act as tempshifts, best liquid is crude oil / petroleum, best gas is H2.

i haven’t launched rocket, so know none about alien materials

 

[The Flying Fox]

1 hour ago, chemie said:

Assuming you have have 2 radiator pipes immediately adjacent with transfer plates, does the surrounding atmosphere affect the heat transferred between the radiators? Or do the pipes directly exchange heat between them.  I am wondering if the heat exchanger room needs a specific gas to improve efficiency.

ONI's heat simulation is simplified for simulation sake.  Buildings can not transfer heat between themselves directly.  They can only effect the 'fluid/solid' that inhabits that tile.  So, there must be a gas/liquid/tile for heat to pass through first.  That means if you have two separate radiators that you want to transfer heat from one to the other, then they have to be within a fluid/solid tile of some type.

 

So yes, a gas/liquid/solid can increase the speed of the transfer when they have a higher thermal conductivity.  That being said, when you use something like a tempshift plate within a gas/liquid, for example, due to the averaging of thermal conductivity that happens in the calculations, the resulting thermal conductivity between that gas/liquid and the plate is usually around 1/5 of what the material of the thermalshift plate is made out of.

 

So, once thermal shift plates are involved, the amount of heat transferred is usually more limited by the mass of the working fluid.  1KGs of something can only transfer so much heat at a time.

[crypticorb]

18 minutes ago, The Flying Fox said:

So, once thermal shift plates are involved, the amount of heat transferred is usually more limited by the mass of the working fluid.  1KGs of something can only transfer so much heat at a time.

You say usually, but do the new superconductive materials like thermium and diamond break from the norm? 

[The Flying Fox]

4 minutes ago, crypticorb said:

You say usually, but do the new superconductive materials like thermium and diamond break from the norm? 

Not really, no.

 

Think of specific heat capacity and thermal conductivity like water flowing through a pipe. (Volume and Pressure)  Thermal conductivity is like pressure.  The higher the pressure, the more water (heat) you can move, but you're still limited by the size of the pipe.  A pressurized garden hose can't nearly match the shear volume of fire hose, even if the fire hose is at a much reduced pressure.

 

So, 1 gram of oxygen can't hope to be able to transfer the amount of heat that 100 grams of oxygen can do at the same temperature, for example.  So, ideally, for the working fluid between two radiators that you're trying to transfer thermal energy from one to the other, you'll want a fluid that roughly matches the fluid that's actually in the pipes in terms of it's overall thermal capacity, or greater.

[chemie]

OK so if I spam transfer plates, I can't avoid having to fill the radiator room with H2. Good to know

 

Radiators are so much better than using thermoregs or tuners.  The later cost power but radiators take zero power and have same outcome.

[clickrush]

12 minutes ago, chemie said:

OK so if I spam transfer plates, I can't avoid having to fill the radiator room with H2. Good to know

 

Radiators are so much better than using thermoregs or tuners.  The later cost power but radiators take zero power and have same outcome.

Radiators and aquatuners/regulators have a completely different role and are often used together. Yes they are both used to move heat around but radiators alone cannot change the temperature range of a system, while aquatuners and regulators can drastically increase it depending on the material used.

[psusi]

31 minutes ago, chemie said:

Radiators are so much better than using thermoregs or tuners.  The later cost power but radiators take zero power and have same outcome.

Radiant pipes only transfer heat from high to low.  You use thermoregs or aquatuners to go the other way.

[thejams]

In other words, Thermo regulators and Aquatuners are Heat pumps and as psiusi said, they work in the complete opposite direction of radiators.

[Carnis]

Radiators work both ways, but always towards thermal equilibrium.

[psusi]

3 hours ago, Carnis said:

Radiators work both ways, but always towards thermal equilibrium.

They only work in one direction, where direction is not inside-outside, but high temp - low temp.  Of course it works in both directions in/out.

[chemie]

I dont understand the arguement of one way only.  Both transfer heat.  There is no difference if I cool a gas with a regulatory or if I use a radiator exchanging with a weeze room to bring that cooling to the second fluid. The only difference is the machines can cool something and dump the heat into a hot fluid whereas the radiator is limited to approach temperatures of the fluids.  For most cooling needs, radiators are better choice for those of us who like low power designs.  Either way, you are only moving the heat.  Heat destruction only comes from buildings designed by game mechanics to indirectly destroy or create heat.

[psusi]

1 hour ago, chemie said:

I dont understand the arguement of one way only.  Both transfer heat.  There is no difference if I cool a gas with a regulatory or if I use a radiator exchanging with a weeze room to bring that cooling to the second fluid. The only difference is the machines can cool something and dump the heat into a hot fluid whereas the radiator is limited to approach temperatures of the fluids.  For most cooling needs, radiators are better choice for those of us who like low power designs.  Either way, you are only moving the heat.  Heat destruction only comes from buildings designed by game mechanics to indirectly destroy or create heat.

Passive cooling only works if you already *have* something cold.  Where do you get that?  Either you are lucky and have a cold slush geyser I guess, or you have to use an aquatuner to make something cold.

[greggbert]

I always keep a lot of super cold hydrogen on hand in tanks and it can cool just about anything with radiator pipes, and it doesn't seem to matter whether the cold hydrogen is inside the pipe or outside. 

I highly recommend keeping about 10 tanks full of -40C hydrogen like you would store excess natural gas or petroleum or battery charge.  You can use it to cool almost anything.

 

[thejams]

3 hours ago, chemie said:

I dont understand the arguement of one way only.  Both transfer heat.  There is no difference if I cool a gas with a regulatory or if I use a radiator exchanging with a weeze room to bring that cooling to the second fluid...

It's not an argument, it's just understanding of game mechanics.  Use whatever method rocks your boat.

Except that... a single Aquatuner cooling water has same cooling power as 49 Wheezeworts in Hydrogen...

[psusi]

3 hours ago, greggbert said:

I highly recommend keeping about 10 tanks full of -40C hydrogen like you would store excess natural gas or petroleum or battery charge.  You can use it to cool almost anything.

Yea, but how did you cool that hydrogen in the first place?  Water is a much better coolant than hydrogen and an aquatuner is far more efficient than a thermoregulator.

[chemie]

17 hours ago, psusi said:

Passive cooling only works if you already *have* something cold.  Where do you get that?  Either you are lucky and have a cold slush geyser I guess, or you have to use an aquatuner to make something cold.

weeze and AETN for gases.  IO agree liquid sources are harder but you dont need something cool, rather something to dump heat into.  Making my PW go from 40C to 100C before feeding peppers for example

[psusi]

1 hour ago, chemie said:

weeze and AETN for gases.  IO agree liquid sources are harder but you dont need something cool, rather something to dump heat into.  Making my PW go from 40C to 100C before feeding peppers for example

That you generally can't do with only passive cooling since the thing you are trying to cool is generally below 100 C already, so the heat has to be *pushed* into the pw with an aquatuner.

[chemie]

2 hours ago, psusi said:

That you generally can't do with only passive cooling since the thing you are trying to cool is generally below 100 C already, so the heat has to be *pushed* into the pw with an aquatuner.

My example would be geyser water at 95c exchanging with pw at ambient.