The Steam Behemoth - Constant High Temperature Tile with Zero Thermal Input

[KittenIsAGeek]

Well, here we go.  2500g/s PW -> 2250g/s pure water at <15 C while producing 2750 watts of excess power. Yep, this is definitely broken. =^.^=

The boiler is holding steady at 136 C, so I could probably increase the flow a little bit.  Plus there's the entire other side of my generators -- I could mirror my water purifier and double the output.  

[Xadhoom]

On 2018-08-17 at 9:08 PM, mathmanican said:

1. New tile/object temperatures are clamped.  Easy way to delete/add heat from world objects at cost of duplicant/player time. 

tbh, i don't think thats a bug, rather a feature. otherwise it would be too easy to ruin your base. just imagine you doing a build and a dupe picks up some 400 degree ignious rock it just mined at bottom, and used that to go up and build in your base. the heat could quickly ruin farms and cause scoldings on dupes nearby.

[a_teo]

Dude, fantastic work!

[Denisetwin]

On 8/19/2018 at 10:07 AM, KittenIsAGeek said:

2500g/s PW -> 2250g/s pure water at <15 C while producing 2750 watts of excess power

would you mind posting your liquid overlay and automation overlay?  I'm trying to follow everything and not succeeding

[KittenIsAGeek]

Oh, there really isn't much to the liquid flow.  Polluted water goes up through the steam condensing area, then across the steam turbine such that it enters the boiling chamber at around 110c.  The thermostat turns off the flow if the temperature on the steam turbine side drops below 130c, since that would mean the boiling chamber is below 125c.  

The out-flow of pure water goes up through the aquatuner.  I have a simple feed-back loop that keeps the water circulating until it drops below 15c, at which point it goes to the storage reservoir.  I have a few other little things so that hot water flows up to my electrolyzers that kinda confuse things.  However, later tonight when I'm home I can certainly post the overlays for you, @Denisetwin.

The turbines are set up as per @mathmanican's method earlier in this thread.

[KittenIsAGeek]

Spoiler

There ya go, @Denisetwin.

[Saturnus]

This gives me an idea to build an uber-exploit petrol behemoth. Simply a 2kg/s oil->petrol cooker combined with a steam turbine for a total of 4KW power, 675g/s clean water, and 75g/s dirt output. Heated by temperature clamped chlorine keep at (metal) volcano temps. And all cooled by pitcher pumps.

As most, if not all, maps have at least 3 oil wells so building 5 of these would give you an ever lasting supply of constant 20KW power, 750g/s clean water surplus, and 375g/s dirt (enough for 45 sleet wheat for example).

Is there anymore current completely broken exploits I should incorporate?

[KittenIsAGeek]

5 hours ago, Saturnus said:

Is there anymore current completely broken exploits I should incorporate?

The oil --> petrol conversion will cost heat.  If you go oil --> NG, you can do it for just about free.  Oil and petrol are pretty similar for specific heat capacity, but natural gas is has a specific heat capacity that is 0.5 J/g/C greater, meaning that you can bring your oil to boiling simply by cooling the NG gas down.

[Saturnus]

15 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

The oil --> petrol conversion will cost heat.

Not sure I follow, or if you didn't actually read my post fully. I'll use the everlasting endless heat source of µg of chlorine and the endless everlasting cooling of pitcher pumps for this exploit build so I don't really care too much about either.

If you didn't catch it, it will be a showcase build on just how many exploits you can put into one build.

[KittenIsAGeek]

Just now, Saturnus said:

Not sure I follow, or if you didn't actually read my post fully. I'll use the everlasting endless heat source of µg of chlorine and the endless everlasting cooling of pitcher pumps for this exploit build so I don't really care too much about either.

I'm not sure that would work for boiling oil into petroleum.  The steam generator exploit works because the output steam is hot enough that it stays steam, and the chlorine tile "tricks" the turbine into believing the steam on the bottom is hot enough to flow to the top.  There really isn't any heat transfer from the chlorine to the steam turbine.  At least, that's my observations so far in working with this setup.

[Saturnus]

7 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

I'm not sure that would work for boiling oil into petroleum.  The steam generator exploit works because the output steam is hot enough that it stays steam, and the chlorine tile "tricks" the turbine into believing the steam on the bottom is hot enough to flow to the top.  There really isn't any heat transfer from the chlorine to the steam turbine.  At least, that's my observations so far in working with this setup.

My observations is that you can transfer heat to something but the chlorine doesn't lose heat in the process due to rounding errors.

[KittenIsAGeek]

3 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

My observations is that you can transfer heat to something but the chlorine doesn't lose heat in the process due to rounding errors.

Well, in the system I built, the temperature is determined by the fixed temperature output temp of the turbine.  I have not been able to transfer a useful amount of heat through chlorine into anything.  For example, I built this:

Spoiler

The insulated walls are abysallite.  There's 8.8g of chlorine above 400c petrol.  The window tiles are diamond (started at 20c).  The outside of the chamber is 1050g/square oxygen that was painted in at 47c.  Almost immediately the oxygen and glass started exchanging temperatures.  In about 1/4 cycle the oxygen and window tiles had normalized to 23c.  Over the rest of the cycle, the entire room finished normalizing to about 23.5c.  The petrol and chlorine remained untouched at 400c.  There is no appreciable heat transfer across the chlorine.  It only acts as a hot point, not as a free heat source.

Note: The chlorine is actually 399.9c, because of averaging with the 23c window tiles.

Addendum: I had some heat transfer with 8.8g chlorine.  Reduced the amount to 180mg.  Petrol now at 399.9c instead of 400, but the room temperature has remained unchanged.

 

ChlorineTest.yaml if you want to use debug to test it yourself.

[Saturnus]

Use molten gold. 2900K and minimum 1200kg in a tile.

[Denisetwin]

16 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

There ya go, @Denisetwin.

Thank you!!!  being able to see what is hidden in the tiles makes all the difference to my understanding the build, really appreciate you taking the time to post the overlays.

[mathmanican]

6 hours ago, Saturnus said:

This gives me an idea to build an uber-exploit petrol behemoth. Simply a 2kg/s oil->petrol cooker combined with a steam turbine for a total of 4KW power, 675g/s clean water, and 75g/s dirt output. Heated by temperature clamped chlorine keep at (metal) volcano temps. And all cooled by pitcher pumps.

As most, if not all, maps have at least 3 oil wells so building 5 of these would give you an ever lasting supply of constant 20KW power, 750g/s clean water surplus, and 375g/s dirt (enough for 45 sleet wheat for example).

Is there anymore current completely broken exploits I should incorporate?

I think you should use a gold regular battery to initially cool stuff to 75C as well, and then pitcher pump to cool stuff lower.  The battery overheat exploit can delete basically infinite heat each second, so you could cool 2900K NG or whatever down to 75C almost instantly. Might as well have a part of your showcase that shows this. I'm excited to see it.  Once you get it made, it probably should have it's own thread, but make sure you put a post in here to make it easy to find. I can't wait to see it. 

[mathmanican]

@Saturnus is right that you can get heat to flow out.  Here's a screen shot.

With 228.4 mg of chlorine, and a tungsten automation bridge, I'm able to heat 1kg of crude oil/petroleum about 0.1C per sec (on 3 times speed). The gold has not dropped temp at all over two cycles. Doulbling the crude oil to 2kg halves the heating effect (as expected). However, with 500mg, the gold drops heat at about the same rate. More testing could find exactly at what point the rounding error kicks in. With the chlorine at 19mg, the heating still occurs but much slower. 

It does boil crude to petroleum (just tested it), but the heat output is really small. The petro continues to go up about 0.1C per sec.  @Saturnus, do you have a way to transfer heat faster? I await your new build and new exploits.

 

[Saturnus]

11 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

@Saturnus, do you have a way to transfer heat faster? I await your new build and new exploits.

I just sent my laptop in for repairs today so it might take a little while as this old piece of garbage I'm currently using can't pull ONI. But what I found is that one molten gold tile can touch 3 tiles of chlorine each and then it's a simple matter of copy/pasting. But I'm looking into more effective ways than automation bridges.

You'd definitely need to absolutely maximize the oil heat exchanger to get the oil as close to boiling you can before reaching the boiler.

[mathmanican]

When I have the plate charge 3 tiles, I have to third the gas on each tile to maintain constant temp in the gold. I even tried using 5 tiles (the lower left and lower right - the lower right point on the tempshift plate behaves very wierdly), but then the gas content had to be even lower.  I'm not sure that using 3 plates will get any better heating done than 1 plate. 

Another interesting thing that might slow down the crude->petro change.  Crude changes to petro when 402.8C tries to increase to 402.9C.  But then the petro instantly drops in temp to 401.4C (or maybe lower). This means that if all 3 tiles don't change at the exact same time, then the tiles near 402.8 drop a bit and then have to begin climbing again. With automation bridges, the change seemed to occur simultaneously each time (good), but when I swapped to conductive bridges, the change was not simultaneous. I also observed that with both automation bridges and conductive bridges, that a temperature difference of 1C would occur, with the hot temps on the right and cool temps on left.

 

[Saturnus]

@mathmanican Since I can't test it myself currently; what if don't use it to heat the oil directly but use it to keep the temperature of molten glass (from a glass forge) and then heat the crude oil using radiant pipes running through that with low enough flow that phase change won't break the pipes?

[mathmanican]

Something like this (still with gold)?

Unfortunately once I added the radiant pipes through the chlorine, the gold started to drop in temp (the pipe is twice the mass, so I'm guessing half as much gas will keep the gold steady). Also, the 1000g packets of oil seem to heat up even more slowly than with the wolframite auto bridge. 

I hope your laptop gets fixed. Never fun to be without a computer. 

 

Of course, if the precooling can get it to within a few degrees, then the phase change in the pipes would prevent the almost 2 degree drop in temp from stopping the reaction.

[mathmanican]

With the recent changes (abysallite gone), a few changes have to be made. You'll need 5 tiles of insulated ceramic (the 5 tiles touching the petroleum below). All other insulated tiles are igneous rock.  No heat radiates out of this build, so you could put it next to cots, farms, etc., and happily get 4kW of nonstop power.

The transformer is steel (has to be, or it will overheat). I used a regular wire to get the power out, as I've become accustomed to using smart battery switching for all my power needs. The build above uses oxygen (20kg/tile in the top 5 spots above each turbine) above the steam (average 15kg/tile). Total O2 is 200kg, and total steam is 720kg (360 on each side).I guess the transformer isn't even needed. Just delete it from the build and use smart battery switching.

Build 5 of them side by side (basically the width of the starter biome) and you have yourself a 20kW behemoth, that requires no upkeep, no inputs, and (if you put aquatuners in the open spaces), can delete basically any amount of heat you want. 

 

[D.L.S.]

This is sad, so many bugs...

 

On 17.08.2018 at 10:08 PM, mathmanican said:

First possible bug - newly constructed tiles have a temperature clamp. If the materials used to create them are too hot, or too cold, then the new tile temperature is clamped in a region.  I believe the temperature clamp is 15C-45C. Temp shift plates behave the same way.   You can grab 300C diamond, and build a new plate whose temperature will NOT be 300C.  Easy to replicate in game. I've checked the forums for info on this, and can't find any. Should it be reported as a bug, or a feature

This can be used as an exploit to rapidly cool super hot things.  Just build a new tile (or a row of them) with igneous rock. Then deconstruct.  Then rebuild, then deconstruct.  Watch your magma disappear in a heart beat. Want your oil temp to drop from 80 to 50 pretty quick? Use Granite/Igneous tiles and build them above the top layer of oil. Heat gets absorbed, deconstruct/rebuild, and in no time at all your oil temp is gone.  Way faster than an aquatuner, though does require manual input from the user. 

 

I believe this clamp made for purpose: if we try to build building of hot for example steel(easy to get on surface), without this clamp, constructed building will have temperature of constructing material(for example 300C) and will overheat right after construction. We cant sort materials by temperature yet, so they added this clamp to solve this issue.

[mathmanican]

@D.L.S. Yep. I adjusted the original post to state this, which @R9MX4 noted pretty quickly when the post went up.

[Saturnus]

@mathmanican You don't actually have to use ceramic tiles at all. This is built with sandstone and iron (ore and refined), and a single diamond temp shift plate. And to me it has the added bonus of routing out a heavi-watt wire as well.

Also, it kinda looks like a Space Invader monster

[mathmanican]

@Saturnus, I'm guessing your 6 insulated tiles around the tempshift plate changed temp (initially) and settled at some temp. This brought your initial heat source down (hopefully not below 500K). The 5 ceramic tiles surrounding the petroleum in my build will not change temp at all (with 800K petro). As soon as I swapped to any other material, the insulated tiles started soaking up the initial heat (I didn't wait long enough to see how much - as they would slowly bleed heat to other things as well), though with a second layer of insulation I'm guessing it doesn't matter once the temps stabilize. 

I do like the space invader design.