Show me your stable !

[Honsey]

We have a lot of drecko stables. Its time for hatches then 

[Le_Bison]

This is the setup I use for my hatches...

[martosss]

Apart from using hatches as a heat sink, which is clearly and exploit, I don't see many reasons for breeding them long term - too little gain, compared to their diet.

• Polluted dirt => use compost  for 100% return
• Dirt => make meal lice or fertilizer
• Slime => Mushrooms
• dupe food => eat it
• metal => 75% return ... better use metal refinery or just use the raw metal
  • copper for suits
  • gold for overheat insurance and refining
  • iron - not sure what's best for, probably refining, certainly not hatch food

Did I miss something? Basically 140kg of any type of matter is much more expensive than their eggs.

Here's an idea for a glossy farm:

 

• Size - 96, loaders diagonally to bypass room count
• Range - dupes can reach stations via ladder and sweepers reach all floor tiles+loaders for egg/berry/fur automatic gathering.
  • grooming/sheering not centered, so I might be wasting some dupe time, but you can just swap middle for right part of the farm and voilla - it's centered!
• Efficiency - Top tiles make a radiator that increases Drecko time on the roof => more plastic. Ratio should be ~2.5:1
  • Dreckos have only 2 points to climb down, I'm not sure if that's good or bad, I think it doesn't matter much. I'd assume they'll spend equal time at every possible tile they can occupy.
• Setup ... I just tried my first "radiator" drecko farm, and from experience - hydrogen should go in first, so it occupies all the holes. After sufficient pressure is reached(insert smart number here) fill bottom row with Oxygen(insert another smart number for pressure/amount). Use suits and a water lock, vacuum while building should help, given that you have suits(careful with slime and polluted oxygen!)

@Neotuck Any ideas for improvement?

P.S. ugh, loaders didn't work when they're diagonally from the sweepr, so I moved them, now they work.

Also, notice the dreckos going to be groomed. That would mean that if the grooming station is in the middle they will spend more time on the roof, as the distance to the bottom is longer.

 

[Slvrsrfr]

I appreciate the insight from you all.

I'm still desperately hunting for the balance that will allow me to fulfill my hope of disturbing my biome as little as possible. My native plant set up is nearly closed as a cycle for me, the number of berry plants and meal plants I have can nearly sustain me indefinitely. Nearly, I still have about 5 planters for mealwood. And at some point I would become dirt positive, either from seeds internally and uneaten food, to the addition of every other biome dropping seeds and meals that eventually rot, feeding my compost. So there is little doubt in my mind that I will be dirt positive, at some point. (algae production is my tripping point right now.)

 I was worried that not utilizing my hatches would possibly cripple future growth or inhibit it. As I understand it takes like 4 hatches to build a population. I know where several are buried on my map, I currently avoid them. They have a tendency to eat my food. But, the prospect of using them later is important. I'm curious what happens if you never uncover them, or just not within their lifespan? Would they go extinct without even knowing? They have long lives which is nice. I'm trying to weigh options. I've created a desperate situation for myself, not sure if I'm asking too much of the game or myself.

[martosss]

OK, I redid it with stations in the middle and "rectangulized" it.

Now it's nice and symmetrical.

Those gases are a mess, though. I have no idea what the right proportion is, so that they don't mix.

[Neotuck]

33 minutes ago, martosss said:

OK, I redid it with stations in the middle and "rectangulized" it.

Now it's nice and symmetrical.

Those gases are a mess, though. I have no idea what the right proportion is, so that they don't mix.

Looks good

Getting the gas to settle can be a hassle, I prefer mesure the gas in separate rooms before pumping it in for exact volume

[martosss]

OK, but I am looking at the dreckos and they are perfectly happy with 1/2 of the plants, I actually harvest the others(even on the picture above you can see the right half is growing, while cows're eating the left.

Therefore I believe that can be optimized further - decrease number of plants  to 16, use 2 sweepers, optimize pathing so that they can easily reach the grooming station(currently their path is 1 big circle - having no shortcuts meaning longer path in general).

I think their diet is around 1200 kcal/25% -2.5 plants/day. I think going with 2 is a good idea, since they'll not be happy 100% of the time => metabolism slows down =>they eat less.

[martosss]

Alright, here's a cheaper, and I think better version, that should yield more plastic.

• Less plants - you don't need 24, 16 is enough
• 1 sweeper and loader less- because of plants
• rectangular design
  • can be stacked(top right loader gets flooded but still functions)
  • You can easily move the door to the right of the water lock and compress the design(move top 2 tiles 1 position below so it's a rectangle)
  • However, lamps are fixed - no easy solution about their position - if they're elevated bristles won't grow once they are 1 tile high)
  • only 3 unreachable squares - dropoff, 2 lamps(and door if you keep it opened) ( only 1 if you put ladders instead of tiles above sweepers and move door right / top tiles downward)
• Middle is elevated - easier access to stations for dreckos => less dupe time wasted + dreckos stay happier longer => more eggs
• Note that I have flatulent dupes => natural gas, however, lamps' bottom squares keep that gas mostly below the plants, same would happen if CO2 leaks in, so this gives you some safety
• huge hydrogen crawl space - dreckos stay above more than below, hopefully
  • efficiency should be 4:1, so around 4 cycles per plastic yield
  • P.S. 50-60 cycles of testing result in around 7 cycles/plastic yield, so .. not very efficient .. I think that's because they starve a lot and like to walk towards the food ... + my 2nd row of Hydrogen isn't stable - I guess that makes a difference

[Oozinator]

What i don't like with ranching, is egg management. Eggs count as critters in stables, critters glum.
Auto sweeper to sweep eggs out there but then incubation micro, everything micro.
All critters the same, halfbaked stuff..

[martosss]

47 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

What i don't like with ranching, is egg management. Eggs count as critters in stables, critters glum.
Auto sweeper to sweep eggs out there but then incubation micro, everything micro.
All critters the same, halfbaked stuff..

You're right, micro sucks, that's why you have sweepers + omelettes - my sweeper sends eggs to a container next to the egg cracker   I think it even loads the egg cracker, as it has range Same for berries and mushrooms - store them next to grills => cook right away = > store fried mushrooms(I need to build a 2nd rail for that now, my prisoners shouldn't waste energy!).

Dreckos have 100 cycles lifespan, so micromanaging babies shouldn't be that hard.

Actually I am trying to switch to atmo suits for some areas(farming + volcanoes), but the micromanagement there is insane - those suits just end up at the checkpoint and there's no auto deliver, neither does a dupe take a free-standing suit somewhere else - it needs to be exactly next to the checkpoint and needs to have a lot of oxygen, otherwise it's like a forbidden area for dupes - that sucks.

 

I'm actually considering sweepers for mushroom farms too - CO2 makes it unpleasant for dupes, so automating it should free up some farmers, or at least give them more time to make fertilizer.

[Grimgaw]

On 7/19/2018 at 4:55 PM, martosss said:

Apart from using hatches as a heat sink, which is clearly and exploit

With sound logic like this you should avoid using dupes, as they delete heat from O2. An exploit that's been in game since inception.

[martosss]

3 minutes ago, Grimgaw said:

With sound logic like this you should avoid using dupes, as they delete heat from O2. An exploit that's been in game since inception.

• If O2 is too hot your dupes will die, so you're limited to how hot air you can give them ?
• They do breathe cold air, too
• air has relatively little mass compared to critters(~1kg vs 100kg).

Of course dupes delete and generate a lot of stuff, but air is definitely not the biggest issue there. Try the burning of kcal regardless of what dupes are doing(or not doing) and the deletion of Oxygen mass when they breathe(as their waste is much less than the amount of Oxygen they breathe).

[Grimgaw]

1 minute ago, martosss said:

If O2 is too hot your dupes will die, so you're limited to how hot air you can give them ?

Not if you put that air in atmo suit first.

2 minutes ago, martosss said:

They do breathe cold air, too

Anything above 0K has heat, and seeing as they take 100g and exhale 2g that's a lot of heat deleted.

3 minutes ago, martosss said:

air has relatively little mass compared to critters(~1kg vs 100kg).

1kg of O2 is 10s of breathing for a dupe. Try 60kg a cycle per dupe.

[martosss]

1 minute ago, Grimgaw said:

Anything above 0K has heat, and seeing as they take 100g and exhale 2g that's a lot of heat deleted.

No, it's not a lot of heat, it's a lot of MASS(compared to critters). Calculate the heat that a critter can store vs O2 can store - Specific heat capacity O2 - 1 vs critters - 3.5. So critters store 3.5 times more heat/kg. So heating a critter to 70° is like feeding a dupe with 200° O2 for 2 days. And I don't know about you, but I don't have a lot of 200° O2 floating around my base.

[Grimgaw]

24 minutes ago, martosss said:

No, it's not a lot of heat, it's a lot of MASS(compared to critters). Calculate the heat that a critter can store vs O2 can store - Specific heat capacity O2 - 1 vs critters - 3.5. So critters store 3.5 times more heat/kg. So heating a critter to 70° is like feeding a dupe with 200° O2 for 2 days. And I don't know about you, but I don't have a lot of 200° O2 floating around my base.

Hatches delete more heat than dupes. Using hatches is exploit, but dupes are OK. Gotcha. 

[Egosession]

On 7/19/2018 at 8:53 AM, Alex_D said:

Here's my puff-drecko-mushroom farm combo. The puff farm supply (some) of the slime for the mush farm. I pressurized the mush and drecko farm and use a water lock to keep the gases from moving too much. Lots of automation to dispense slime, dirt, and taking away the phosphorite, eggs, plastic, and mushrooms away. The dupes only go in to operate the few machines in the drecko farm.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Question regarding the mush farm slime transport system: How did you regulate your slime transport so they dont off gas when the receptacle is overfilled? You know, when you cant put the belts into the wall because of that one tile for the receptacle itself.

I use a clock on mine, set to like 1% uptime, so it only dispenses like 6 slime packets at a time. But I m not happy, its difficult to regulate.

[martosss]

24 minutes ago, Egosession said:

Question regarding the mush farm slime transport system: How did you regulate your slime transport so they dont off gas when the receptacle is overfilled? You know, when you cant put the belts into the wall because of that one tile for the receptacle itself.

I use a clock on mine, set to like 1% uptime, so it only dispenses like 6 slime packets at a time. But I m not happy, its difficult to regulate.

As far as I can see, the quoted farm uses water to submerge the receptacle + walls for transport. So receptacles is flooded => no releasing of polluted oxygen.

Another idea would be to pre-cool the slime to <20° to kill all slimelung?

e.g. container submerged in icecold water(inside ice biome) => load with slime => slimelung dies => THEN load clean slime for farm usage.

For differentiating between dirty/clean slime container you should use sweep options + priority:

• ice cold container contains all slime("sweep only" unselected), but with low priority(e.g. 5).
• Then you will have a container containing clean slime, which is used for supplying the farm. It should have higher priority(e.g.6), but sweep only selected.
• When slime is clean, unload it from the "dirty" container(untick slime => tick again slime) and then select slime for sweeping. That way it will go to the "6" container, since it's selected for sweeping and the "6" container has higher priority.

However, the farm on the picture might be better, since it doesn't need that additional stage of slime cleaning.

[Alex_D]

2 hours ago, Egosession said:

 

Question regarding the mush farm slime transport system: How did you regulate your slime transport so they don't off gas when the receptacle is overfilled? You know, when you cant put the belts into the wall because of that one tile for the receptacle itself.

I use a clock on mine, set to like 1% up-time, so it only dispenses like 6 slime packets at a time. But I m not happy, its difficult to regulate.

As @martosss mentioned, the entire slime storage, conveyor loader and receptacles are submerged enough so they don't off-gas. As per transporting, the slime won't off-gas if the conveyor belt is always inside solid tiles. If there is the need to go across tiles, use a conveyor bridge.

I build my slime-mushrooms farms, vertically as shown, or as well horizontally, with a tile down for the receptacle. Prior to activating the farm, I have a liquid vent releasing water from obsidian pipes that run along the farm tiles. I re-use the pipe to keep the farm tiles from becoming too hot.

If you put a few ore scrubbers before the slime delivery, they can be sterilized when the slime is deposited into the storage containers. However, I don't worry at all about germ pollution in that slime or in the water (e.g. food poisoning), as when the mushrooms are fried the germs are killed.

 

 

[martosss]

5 hours ago, Grimgaw said:

Hatches delete more heat than dupes. Using hatches is exploit, but dupes are OK. Gotcha. 

of course they're not ok, but we can't play without them, can we?

[Xarian]

After playing around with all of the animals, I've come to the conclusion that they're all a waste of time except for Dreckos and Pufts. Pufts require basically no maintenance, and PO2 isn't even germy if you stick a wheezewort in their stable. Dreckos are just easy to take care of.

Pacus and Hatches eat too much for too little gain - especially since Dirt is a major commodity and metal volcanos make refined metal easy to obtain

Slicksters are annoying to take care of and don't process CO2 quickly enough

Shine bugs take too much setup to get working (you need some sort of auto-hatchery using a conveyor belt, food systems to let the nymphs mature, then your dupes have to wrangle the adults using the 'maximum allowed population' thing and move them to different rooms)

Morbs are awesome, but they don't count because you can't actually ranch them

To make ranching fun we really need 3 things:

• Renewable Dirt source
• Massively increased ability to produce algae
• Jobs (repeatable queue) and logic circuitry allowed on the incubator

[martosss]

@Xarian All this is true if you don't use feeding glitches(feed them 1kg of food => they're happy OR keep them starved and reload => they are 100% starved again) ....

Don't you still need a source of polluted oxygen for pufts?

And you're missing the point that pacus can be farmed for meat - keep them hungry and let them lay eggs and die(cruel, isn't it?).

I'd say Balm lilies + Dreckos are your free renewable resource .. from there you get fiber + eggs/meat.

Now that I'm thinking about it, you could make a huge farm and put a lot of dreckos in one place, just don't care about the ranching room bonus, as long as you keep them groomed for eggs and they don't starve you're good to go. That basically means

[Tranoze]

This is how i farm almost close to infinitive Critter with water lock.

Dreckko farm 

Hatch farm

MoltenSlickter farm

Fish tank

[Oozinator]

18 minutes ago, tranoze said:

Hatch farm

 

Interesting. How do you control population, they all must be glum in top row stable?
Edit: mhh ok they are no stables but tame..
Ahh grooming station works outside of stable, should be fixxed..
How do you manage egg control/incubation?

[Tranoze]

6 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

Ahh grooming station works outside of stable, should be fixxed..
How do you manage egg control/incubation?

Grooming outside stable is not a bug, you can only groom outside if the job reached seasoned rancher. Normal rancher wont work.
Look closely at Door and, automation, all critter are dropped at critter drop, then walk into the drop door, and after he walk in to the door, it open and drop critter down. That how i sort those critter, only sage on top, stone in middle, and i crack all normal eggs. Sadly i dont have time to make a video to show it.

[erikac14]

My stone hatches setup

They all eat igneous rock. The top loader is for stone hatchling eggs. Some of them will be sent to a infinite loop to incubate and the others will be sent to food storage area and become raw eggs. The middle loader is sending meat and other type of eggs to food storage area too.

Edit: eggs can no longer incubate on rails after Expressive Upgrade!