Argelle Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Hello, Cycle 800ish ow and I keep scavenging for poluted water. Need for clean water are met but polluted water tank seems to drop continiusly. Can you spot ingoing or outgoing I forget? Fertilizer synthesis (2x) 39 g/s => 78 g/s => 78 x 600 = 46 800 g /cycle <=> - 48.8 kg/cycle Bristle farm (57x) 20 000 g /cycle => 1 140 000 g/cycle <=> - 1 140 kg/cycle (farmer's touch should half it?) EDIT: - 1140 kg polluted water sleeves to 1140 kg water are consumes by berries. Algae distilation (2x) 400 g/sec => 800 g/sec => 800 x 600 g/cycles <=> + 480 kg/cycle Lavoratories (20x) 11 700 g/use => 20 dupes so 20 use per cycle ? Minus 500g clean water per use per dupe ? 6.7 kg x 20 <=> + 134 kg/cycle So far it would explain a - 572.8 kg loss per cycle. It does not seems much, and I assumed a full utilization. Note: oxygen is taken care of solenely by water from a geyser. And sadely, there is only one and only geyser with water, polluted or not. Turner should not have used all the polluted water for his painting.. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93579-smoke-on-the-water-or-water-vanish-in-smoke/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 10 minutes ago, Argelle said: Hello, Cycle 800ish ow and I keep scavenging for poluted water. Turner should not have used all the polluted water for his painting.. - 572.8 kg is much * 500 cycles = - 286400 Kg (286 tiles) 22*12,2 tiles.. Yep when you have bad luck with geysers/volcanos, you can kill most off the dupes, or restart. To many dupes eat and breath to much, then 1/3 population ranching/farming. Bottleneck.. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93579-smoke-on-the-water-or-water-vanish-in-smoke/#findComment-1064601 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 What other geysers have you got? Maybe you can make more polluted water from them one way or another. @Argelle Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93579-smoke-on-the-water-or-water-vanish-in-smoke/#findComment-1064603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulwind Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Bristles don't use polluted water. I assume you are purifying, but you specifically said that clean water needs are met... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93579-smoke-on-the-water-or-water-vanish-in-smoke/#findComment-1064605 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argelle Posted July 16, 2018 Author Share Posted July 16, 2018 @Oozinator this is ze end, my friend... (but your calculation seems frightingly right) @BlueLance there is hope at the end of the geyser... You two are playing up and down with my little heart... OK, geysers. Focus. 2 natural gas, one two cool steam geysers (O2), one hot polluted oxygene vent, one CO2, one chlorine, one magma volcano, one iron volcano, one toxic polluted oxygen. May be, just may be, I can cool dow and detox the oxygen geysers, use water from the steam one for plants instead of oxygen? Would the game not be so sluggish because of the monitoring, that can be triyed? 5 minutes ago, Soulwind said: Bristles don't use polluted water. I assume you are purifying, but you specifically said that clean water needs are met... Yes, sorry, I do indeed clean and cool polluted water and my needs are met with the resulting water. So my quick and dirty calculations are too crude... please replace the line on bristle by "polluted water transformed into water : - 1140 kg/cycle". Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93579-smoke-on-the-water-or-water-vanish-in-smoke/#findComment-1064607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
avilmask Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 One of additional, but actually quite common sources of water is crude oil. Burn it with lava, gain natural gas, turn natural gas into polluted water. upd: crude oil turns into natural gas when boiled, natural gas generators generate polluted water as a waste Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93579-smoke-on-the-water-or-water-vanish-in-smoke/#findComment-1064610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argelle Posted July 16, 2018 Author Share Posted July 16, 2018 I have to dig into the wiki to understand the latest conversion... EDIT: yes, that was obvious, the generatrors do add some polluted water. UPDATE calculations Fertilizer synthesis (2) - 48.8 kg/cycle Bristle farm (57) polluted water => water <=> - 1 140 kg/cycle Algae distilation (2) + 480 kg/cycle Lavoratories (20 dupes) + 134 kg/cycle Nat Gas Generators (5) 67.5g/s x 600 => +202.5 kg/cycle So far it would explain a - 372.3 kg loss per cycle I would need 9 extra generator, but why not, this + other ways to get oxygen (and save water) should get me the 1000 cycles Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93579-smoke-on-the-water-or-water-vanish-in-smoke/#findComment-1064611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Argelle said: I have to dig into the wiki to understand the latest conversion... natural gas generators produce PW as waste Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93579-smoke-on-the-water-or-water-vanish-in-smoke/#findComment-1064612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Argelle said: 2 natural gas, one two cool steam geysers (O2), one hot polluted oxygene vent, one CO2, one chlorine, one magma volcano, one iron volcano, one toxic polluted oxygen. May be, just may be, I can cool dow and detox the oxygen geysers, use water from the steam one for plants instead of oxygen? Would the game not be so sluggish because of the monitoring, that can be triyed? Ok so your natural gas geysers can give you polluted water, it isnt a hell of a lot but it is better than nothing. You could disable automation to make Natural gas Gens run more often if you have an excessive amount of natural gas. No point keeping it if you are not needing it (Obviously keep some for actual power if you ever need it) With your two steam vents are you making sure to get 100% out of them? If you ever let the steam pile up it can over-pressurise and every second it does this you lose out on some water. Mines instantly condesnses the steam so I never worry about this happening. The hot polluted vent gives you three options, 1, Cool it down and use it as is, Liquefy it to get actual oxygen, cool it to some degree and feed it to your pufts or build a stable around it and go from there... Pufts might die from the heat eventually though. Your CO2 vent, it aint gonna be amazing, but feed it to slicksters, if you get molten slicksters you can put the petroleum into a petroleum gen for power and polluted water. again if power isnt an issue best use it. Chlorine....feed squeaky pufts make sure its in a sealed room, or 5 and you can easily get a supply of omelettes or meat or both. leave the bleachstone in the stables and it will run through periods or dormancy. Your polluted oxygen vent is the same as the hot polluted one, it really depends on what you value more, oxygen (Cool it) or water (Puft it) As for your volcanoes they wont help you get water directly but you can use them to boil oil and use the natural gas to get polluted water. If you can afford it I would go for the farmers touch, if your farms are decent then it will save a lot of water. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93579-smoke-on-the-water-or-water-vanish-in-smoke/#findComment-1064614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisetwin Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 17 minutes ago, Argelle said: one hot polluted oxygene vent Cold kills off Slimelung really fast - if you can chill that air, you can use it easily for oxygen instead of your clean water. (In my latest playthrough the polluted oxygen vent is in a cold biome, the only slimelung is just a tiny bit right at the vent itself, I put a couple deodorizers in the biome and by the time it reaches the top, it's chilled, slime lung free oxygen. ) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93579-smoke-on-the-water-or-water-vanish-in-smoke/#findComment-1064615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Denisetwin said: Cold kills off Slimelung really fast - if you can chill that air, you can use it easily for oxygen instead of your clean water. Hot polluted oxygen vents don't have slimelung Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93579-smoke-on-the-water-or-water-vanish-in-smoke/#findComment-1064616 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisetwin Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Just now, Neotuck said: Hot polluted oxygen vents don't have slimelung Did not read close enough, thanks Neotuck Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93579-smoke-on-the-water-or-water-vanish-in-smoke/#findComment-1064617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
avilmask Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Try to add more sources of food, and decrease amount of berry farms. Add ranches (including free ranches, like dreko+lily ones) for eggs and occasional meat. Closed rooms with wheezeworts can cool air to very low numbers, if you want to kill germs for free in pO2). You probably need air conditioning anyway, if you clean water. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93579-smoke-on-the-water-or-water-vanish-in-smoke/#findComment-1064619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argelle Posted July 16, 2018 Author Share Posted July 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, BlueLance said: With your two steam vents are you making sure to get 100% out of them? If you ever let the steam pile up it can over-pressurise and every second it does this you lose out on some water. Mines instantly condesnses the steam so I never worry about this happening. I can do better for sure, so far steam is pumped away but not properly cooled down so the geyser is overpressured from time to time. Originally there were metal and weezmort here but it did not work well to cool things down. So far I do not manage steam (or heat very well) by lack of space in this aera, and steam cooling below 100 C in pipes prevent me from going where space is abundant. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93579-smoke-on-the-water-or-water-vanish-in-smoke/#findComment-1064620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 20 minutes ago, Argelle said: @Oozinator this is ze end, my friend... Nice song Take care that you clean up your base after.. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93579-smoke-on-the-water-or-water-vanish-in-smoke/#findComment-1064621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argelle Posted July 16, 2018 Author Share Posted July 16, 2018 Polluted oxygen ends up in a nice puft farm: Excess oxygen is store into oxylite by the other pufts: The replies and suggestions are coming so fast, I can keep up replying, but - a big thanks for all your replies - there is so much one can do in this game to turn things around, it's amazing (thanks klei, and no, Oozinator, I won't give up my base yet ) 16 minutes ago, Denisetwin said: Did not read close enough, thanks Neotuck My bad, I did write the geysers list too quickely. One is a hot polluted oxygen geyser => feeding the puft, but I have a (not analysed) toxic O2 geyser : You make it look armless, so I'll go and clean it to get oxygen by this way (less water used). 25 minutes ago, BlueLance said: If you can afford it I would go for the farmers touch, if your farms are decent then it will save a lot of water. Great list of advices, @BlueLance I do have seasonned farmers in my base, and stations in the berries farms. So, you agree that my calculation on water consumption should be : Bristle farm (57x) 20 kg /cycle => 1 140 kg/cycle => - 1 140 kg/cycle => - 570 kg/cycle (farmer's touch) ? On paper I should get +197.7 kg/cycle on overall.... weird... 21 minutes ago, avilmask said: Try to add more sources of food, and decrease amount of berry farms. Add ranches (including free ranches, like dreko+lily ones) for eggs and occasional meat. Closed rooms with wheezeworts can cool air to very low numbers, if you want to kill germs for free in pO2). You probably need air conditioning anyway, if you clean water. That was the initial premice = reduce berries, since I have plenty of other food so berries can go if they are the culpits for too much water consumption. Base is equiped with central cooling (temperature < 30 °C) so germs are under control. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93579-smoke-on-the-water-or-water-vanish-in-smoke/#findComment-1064622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Argelle said: Bristle farm (57x) 20 kg /cycle => 1 140 kg/cycle => - 1 140 kg/cycle => - 570 kg/cycle (farmer's touch) ? Not really, it depends on your actual farms, not the farmers. Your farmer still has to travel to each plant etc, so they might not get 100% uptime on all of your plants(especially now that they get a break). So you awill be 1,140kg per cycle - how efficient your design and set-up is. SO at most yes you could save 570kg maximum. Also this is my design for a steam geyser, it is experimental though but you can see how simple it is to cool down the steam and use it If you are not fussy about how you make use of the water, use it with showers or your electrolyzers, use a sieve to cool it down to 40C. How you cool it is up to you, but I suggest tryng to get the most out of your geyser ASAP and going from there Edit - I forgot to attach the sweeper etc to a rail so it ran out of power oops Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93579-smoke-on-the-water-or-water-vanish-in-smoke/#findComment-1064652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argelle Posted July 16, 2018 Author Share Posted July 16, 2018 30 minutes ago, BlueLance said: Also this is my design for a steam geyser, it is experimental though but you can see how simple it is to cool down the steam and use it You've set up a loop with polluted water, cooling the geyser by radiant pipes, and going through the aquatuner you cool down the water. Nice and simple. So far I have one aquatuner because of the 1200 W power cost, but with petroleum generator I may afford a second one As for farming, it looks like crushing numbers is not so easy. I wish there is a summary (the one for power in Factorio is awsome, why not a water meter in ONI ? ) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93579-smoke-on-the-water-or-water-vanish-in-smoke/#findComment-1064661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nativel Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Argelle said: Bristle farm (57) polluted water => water <=> - 1 140 kg/cycle This is a problem, you've use wrong type of food. 57 farms it's insane and you lack on fertilizer for them btw, each farm need 5 kg of fertilizer and you've got only 2 fertilizer makers with is mean it's enought for 29 farm, why? 120 g/s they give you have 2 = 240 g/s * 600 seconds in cycle = 144 kg cycles / 5kg each crop need per cycle = 28,8 crops, I hope you cooking them at least to gristle berry, in this case you have: 57(brestle)/6(lifecycles)*2000(if you at least cooking them to gristle berry to gain more food from 1600 to 2000 and not let your dubs eat crude berries) =19000kcal per cycle with is mean you have 19 dubs, so far em I right? Or you have more? Now. I read carefully and get it you have 20 dubs. For 20 dubs you will need: 25 sleat wheats and 5 peppers with is mean 30 farms total with is mean you need exactly 2,1slightly more than 2 fertilizer makers, so let's count: 25 sleat whets / 18 cycles * 2 farmer touch *18 (grains you will get from 1 harvest) = 50 grains each day. 5 peppers / 8 cycles * 2 farmer touch * 4 (nuts from each harvest) = 5 nuts each day. For one pepper bread we need 10 leat grains and 1 nut and it give us 4000 kcal of food. so how much food we can make? 50 (grains we got every day) / 10 (grains we need for 1 bread) * 4000kcal (it's one peper bread whealth in kcal) = 20000 so but is it enought pepers? Well let's see: 20000 / 4000 = 5 pepers each day you need and you got 5 - so far so good. not how about water consumption? 25 sleats * 20 kg of water each day = 500 kg cycle. 5 pepers * 35 kg of poluted water = 175 kg p.water fertilizers 39 g/s poluted water * 600 seconds (in one cycle) * 2 of them we need = 46.8 kg of poluted water + 2 kg because you say so = 48,8 kg p,water cycle, so: 3 hours ago, Argelle said: 46 800 g /cycle <=> - 48.8 kg/cycle Hehehe, you see you misstake? I'm russian Ok not how much water you will spend? 480+175+48.8=723.8 kg cycle instead of 1 140 kg 816 you've got from sources - 723 on this farm = +93 kg of water you can spent on oxygen, good luck. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93579-smoke-on-the-water-or-water-vanish-in-smoke/#findComment-1064670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Argelle said: You've set up a loop with polluted water, cooling the geyser by radiant pipes, and going through the aquatuner you cool down the water. Nice and simple. So far I have one aquatuner because of the 1200 W power cost, but with petroleum generator I may afford a second one Its powered by coal, I get enough coal from hatches to run it the batteries are there because sometimes the system uses more power than it produces. I just noticed though that I forgot to put the automation into the geyser room.... Also Nativel does raise a good point, diversifying your food would be a really good idea. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93579-smoke-on-the-water-or-water-vanish-in-smoke/#findComment-1064682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argelle Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 Спасибо коренных ! That is a hell of a complete calculus ! And quite correctely, I have 20 dupes Quite convicing argument, so I'll scrap half of my berry farm. I did not set up a peper nor sweet grain farm per se, but I left many wild spot for collect, so my reserves are full! I know it's not optimum, since the dupes have to run and fetch the grain and peper, but I have more than enough. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93579-smoke-on-the-water-or-water-vanish-in-smoke/#findComment-1064917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherBoris Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 16 hours ago, Argelle said: one magma volcano, one iron volcano Volcano + Oil Well = 1500g/s Pwater + 833.25g/s CO2. 17 hours ago, Argelle said: Bristle farm (57x) 20 000 g /cycle => 1 140 000 g/cycle <=> - 1 140 kg/cycle Change for Puft Farm and Mushrooms farm. About 20 kg Pwater/cycle per duplicant. 20*20 = 400. 1140-400 = 740kg/cycle ecnomy. 25 minutes ago, Argelle said: Спасибо коренных ! А? Что? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93579-smoke-on-the-water-or-water-vanish-in-smoke/#findComment-1064921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 34 minutes ago, AnotherBoris said: Volcano + Oil Well = 1500g/s Pwater + 833.25g/s CO2. That would only work if he had the clean water to start it up, I have never used an oil well so I do not know if there is a net gain etc but I assume there is since you mentioned it Also it would be best if he keeps at least some bristles so he can continue making berry sludge when he has the materials, It is good to keep for obvious reasons, just needs to tone back on the amount XD Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93579-smoke-on-the-water-or-water-vanish-in-smoke/#findComment-1064929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parusoid Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 @Argelle oil power generators produces polluted water Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93579-smoke-on-the-water-or-water-vanish-in-smoke/#findComment-1064939 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnis Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Kill bristles & slime distiller & replace with shrooms, water needs fixed. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93579-smoke-on-the-water-or-water-vanish-in-smoke/#findComment-1064952 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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