old_fantom Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 I know my complaint is tempered, at least partially, the fact that I am playing on a Mac Mini. But when you get to the late game, and I am between 1000 and 1500 cycles in, this game is unplayable. I would open the game and check what cycle I am on but it takes several minutes to load a save game. I was playing yesterday and I going to work on moving some things around my base. I set dupes to destroy some tiles. They come over, take about 5 seconds to stare at the tile before destroying it. Then, after destroying it, they stand there mid animation. I am left with time to make up stories in my head about how the dupe is contemplating the meaning of life with the destruction of stone tile as analogy for life. The game is just unplayable. So now I sit and wait until the next release so I can have a reason to start a new base. If anyone ever asked my opinion about buying this game, I would definitely say, "It is fun, BUT...". Don't worry Klei, I don't have people beating my door down to get my recommendations. But this is kinda silly. Even for early release. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93291-late-game-lag-kills-this-game/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 This is especially the case with the cosmic update, I noticed a considerable performance loss when both testing it and its release. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93291-late-game-lag-kills-this-game/#findComment-1061699 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunru Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 That said, if they optimise it too much, too early, it makes it significantly harder to change things, let alone add new things in. I expect the last couple of updates before launch proper will be heavy optimisation. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93291-late-game-lag-kills-this-game/#findComment-1061749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyMonroe Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Yunru is correct. The game is early access and time spent optimizing systems that could change or be removed before beta is time wasted. They will do some optimization for the sake of playability but don't expect any dedicated overhauls at this stage of development. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93291-late-game-lag-kills-this-game/#findComment-1061751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 I hope they do fix the fact that the last patch has been a kick in the teeth in terms of performance though Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93291-late-game-lag-kills-this-game/#findComment-1061753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgel Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 34 minutes ago, Yunru said: That said, if they optimise it too much, too early, it makes it significantly harder to change things, let alone add new things in. I expect the last couple of updates before launch proper will be heavy optimisation. That is just it: Early optimization is often wasted, because you will replace the code again. The one exception is selection of the algorithms, but there Klei cannot have done too badly or everything would grind to a halt much earlier. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93291-late-game-lag-kills-this-game/#findComment-1061770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
watermelen671 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 2 hours ago, BlueLance said: I hope they do fix the fact that the last patch has been a kick in the teeth in terms of performance though Well I mean they did add in a LOT of new stuff, including a new biome. Give them some time to refine the code and finalize the major stuff that was added in this upgrade, and then they'll start working on optimizing it. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93291-late-game-lag-kills-this-game/#findComment-1061837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, watermelen671 said: Well I mean they did add in a LOT of new stuff, including a new biome. Give them some time to refine the code and finalize the major stuff that was added in this upgrade, and then they'll start working on optimizing it. The biome was in the files though a couple of patches ago but there must be a memory leak or something because adding a new biome etc would not contribute so heavily to the performance loss Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93291-late-game-lag-kills-this-game/#findComment-1061839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
watermelen671 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, BlueLance said: The biome was in the files though a couple of patches ago but there must be a memory leak or something because adding a new biome etc would not contribute so heavily to the performance loss Spoiler Also blame the critters, they still need a lot of cleaning up with their pathing As I said in the spoiler, they still need to polish the coding for the critters, because , they cause a lot of lag still. That in tandem with all of the fresh code introduced, performance loss should be expected. Spoiler Also, IIRC @RoboPhred pointed out that they changed something about the parsing, which I have no idea what that means. On 6/8/2018 at 12:21 AM, RoboPhred said: I took a peek into a CU save. The immediate compatibility issue is the introduction of a new serialization type flag IS_VALUE_TYPE (64), which only affects certain custom objects inside arrays. There might be more, but I cannot discover them until this one is dealt with. I played around with it, but it turns out I made some pretty bad design decisions around the multi-version support stuff that prevent it from actually being workable. I could get it to work, but it would break compatibility with the current stable. Since we are so close to the CU release, I will just wait for the CU release, refactor the parser to be far more sane, and declare CU the new minimum supported version. Work will be happening in the cu-versioning branch if you want to follow along. I am rethinking my plans to try for multi-version support. Since Klei only has one stable release at a time, there's not much point in keeping support for older stable versions around. Multi-version would be able to handle the test branches, but I don't believe that's a good idea as it interferes with the actual testing. The only real use-case I can see is for trying to inspect or copy data from old saves, but that doesn't seem like it would come up too often. Does anyone have any opinions on this? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93291-late-game-lag-kills-this-game/#findComment-1061852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunru Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 So I haven't experienced any lag, but ONI does push my laptop into the 80+*C range D: Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93291-late-game-lag-kills-this-game/#findComment-1061853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
watermelen671 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Yunru said: So I haven't experienced any lag, but ONI does push my laptop into the 80+*C range D: What're you running ONI on? The Monolith?! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93291-late-game-lag-kills-this-game/#findComment-1061856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunru Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 1 minute ago, watermelen671 said: What're you running ONI on? The Monolith?! I think it's more a case of my having to stop running ONI to avoid a meltdown that's stopping lag from building. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93291-late-game-lag-kills-this-game/#findComment-1061857 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 13 minutes ago, watermelen671 said: As I said in the spoiler, they still need to polish the coding for the critters, because , they cause a lot of lag still. That in tandem with all of the fresh code introduced, performance loss should be expected. Critters existed in MkI and MkII and the game was fine, Cosmic didnt add more to critters etc. Also I wish! I drop to about 12FPS on triple and 26 on single! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93291-late-game-lag-kills-this-game/#findComment-1061864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
watermelen671 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Just now, BlueLance said: Critters existed in MkI and MkII and the game was fine, Cosmic didnt add more to critters etc. Also I wish! I drop to about 12FPS on triple and 26 on single! I dunno, maybe I just need to stop making shine bug bombs... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93291-late-game-lag-kills-this-game/#findComment-1061866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunru Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 It could be because light is now granular... Hmm. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93291-late-game-lag-kills-this-game/#findComment-1061870 Share on other sites More sharing options...
watermelen671 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Yunru said: It could be because light is now granular... Hmm. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93291-late-game-lag-kills-this-game/#findComment-1061874 Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fantom Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Yunru said: So I haven't experienced any lag, but ONI does push my laptop into the 80+*C range D: I actually have a small fan that I bought to blow over my mac when I play the game. I just figured it was the cost of "gaming" on a mac mini. The mini was designed to be small (in 2012 terms) not for cooling. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93291-late-game-lag-kills-this-game/#findComment-1061911 Share on other sites More sharing options...
watermelen671 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 1 hour ago, old_fantom said: I actually have a small fan that I bought to blow over my mac when I play the game. I just figured it was the cost of "gaming" on a mac mini. The mini was designed to be small (in 2012 terms) not for cooling. why not just submerge it in liquid nitrogen? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93291-late-game-lag-kills-this-game/#findComment-1061942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunru Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, watermelen671 said: why not just submerge it in liquid nitrogen? The buttons might crack when you press them, duh. Also if exposed for too long, there's a risk of hypothermia. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93291-late-game-lag-kills-this-game/#findComment-1061944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cilya Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Put one wheezwort near your laptop then ! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93291-late-game-lag-kills-this-game/#findComment-1061963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
watermelen671 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Yunru said: The buttons might crack when you press them, duh. Also if exposed for too long, there's a risk of hypothermia. Psh. With that attitude. 1 minute ago, Cilya said: Put one wheezwort near your laptop then ! Precisely. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93291-late-game-lag-kills-this-game/#findComment-1061966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fantom Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Yunru said: The buttons might crack when you press them, duh. Also if exposed for too long, there's a risk of hypothermia. It has a lot more to do with the fact that I have no means to make or procure liquid nitrogen and that my analog mind never went past a small desk fan. This is why my bases are not full of complicated automation. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93291-late-game-lag-kills-this-game/#findComment-1061967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megouski Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 17 hours ago, Yunru said: That said, if they optimise it too much, too early, it makes it significantly harder to change things, let alone add new things in. I expect the last couple of updates before launch proper will be heavy optimisation. As a programmer, this make no sense to me. Proper optimization brings *further* ease to make changes, fix bugs and overall makes life easier. They should damn well be aiming to optimize, the sooner the better. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93291-late-game-lag-kills-this-game/#findComment-1062273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draquila Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 I think it has more than a little to do with the fact that the game is made in Unity. Unity's performance just isn't all that good, particularly with memory-intensive games like this. I genuinely have no idea why they chose it. That said, cleaning up debris seems to make a HUGE difference, so build a warehouse full of storage compactors. 42 minutes ago, Megouski said: As a programmer, this make no sense to me. Proper optimization brings *further* ease to make changes, fix bugs and overall makes life easier. They should damn well be aiming to optimize, the sooner the better. "Premature optimization is the root of all evil." If you write clean, modular code, you can optimize it later; no sense wasting your time optimizing something that will need 10 rewrites anyway. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93291-late-game-lag-kills-this-game/#findComment-1062282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
UziMaster Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 I'm no coder, but I somehow doubt everything that could be optimized is also something that could still be radically changed. If the game is becoming too computationally cumbersome they should optimize it now, rather than wait until it's completely unplayable. Reading articles and such written by actual developers, pushing back Q&A style issues as well as optimization until the end of the development cycle often leads to bad results. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93291-late-game-lag-kills-this-game/#findComment-1062308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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