Lime Bottleneck

[clickrush]

7 minutes ago, JonnyMonroe said:

Incubators don't have a 'continuous production' option. You have to manually set each egg to incubate.

 

I'll post my automation solution in a new thread since this keeps coming up.

Are you sure? This must be a huge oversight on Klei's part. I personally shyed away from anything ranching related so far that tries to produce eggs/meat and not the critter 'output', because I can't stand any kind of continuous micromanagement. I really hoped that ranching and controlling population was fixed by the autowrangle feature and the egg cracker but apparently not.

[chemie]

2 minutes ago, clickrush said:

Are you sure? This must be a huge oversight on Klei's part. I personally shyed away from anything ranching related so far that tries to produce eggs/meat and not the critter 'output', because I can't stand any kind of continuous micromanagement. I really hoped that ranching and controlling population was fixed by the autowrangle feature and the egg cracker but apparently not.

He is correct.  You have to manually order egg to incubator and then manually remove it.

[0xFADE]

1 hour ago, clickrush said:

But lime might very well be a bottleneck ressource. So far cycle 300 bases of experienced players usually have all the tech unlocked and implemented to some degree. Probably earlier. If @0xFADE has trouble producing steel with a 300 cycle base then we might be looking at a balanceing issue here or at a unnecessary timesink.

I have some steel.  I feel like I get to make a blast door every 10-30 cycles now but I have not directly measured it.  Maybe that is the right amount of progress but it feels pretty slow.  I feel like the iron itself should be the bottleneck rather than the lime.  I certainly don't have a carbon bottleneck.

I've also got something like 8000t of regolith.  I've only cleared maybe a third of the surface so there is likely 3-4x that much regolith buried.  It seems like a little too much when I only have around 100t of granite and igneous.  Space is more about resources than just power it seems.(and I bet it is a reason it takes so long to load the game)

The key is to not try and go all in on space like I did till you have all your other stuff settled.  I should have had a boiler made by now that would actually power the base properly.  I'd been in a state of only having enough extra power to run one or 2 high power things at once for far too long.

I was also not actively ranching the larger egg critters for awhile.  I've got something like 50 stone hatches now so my lime rates are probably a lot better than they were back then.

[JonnyMonroe]

3 minutes ago, 0xFADE said:

I was also not actively ranching the larger egg critters for awhile.  I've got something like 50 stone hatches now so my lime rates are probably a lot better than they were back then.

Stone hatches are life now.

[0xFADE]

2 hours ago, Hellshound38 said:

Mine hatch off the rail.

Yes. I tested a rail stop for egg holding and it does not work.  They stop incubating on a rail.  I'd love for it to work.  It would be pretty great.

 

[chemie]

Sorry but 50 hatches, which is 5 ranches and 5 dup ranchers is way off balance to make a dozen blast doors.  Plus if you lasted the 100 cycles needed to make that many eggshells, you are fine for long term power so dont need solar.

[BadlyBurned]

1 minute ago, 0xFADE said:

I have some steel.  I feel like I get to make a blast door every 10-30 cycles now but I have not directly measured it.  Maybe that is the right amount of progress but it feels pretty slow.  I feel like the iron itself should be the bottleneck rather than the lime.  I certainly don't have a carbon bottleneck.

I've also got something like 8000t of regolith.  I've only cleared maybe a third of the surface so there is likely 3-4x that much regolith buried.  It seems like a little too much when I only have around 100t of granite and igneous.  Space is more about resources than just power it seems.(and I bet it is a reason it takes so long to load the game)

The key is to not try and go all in on space like I did till you have all your other stuff settled.  I should have had a boiler made by now that would actually power the base properly.  I'd been in a state of only having enough extra power to run one or 2 high power things at once for far too long.

I was also not actively ranching the larger egg critters for awhile.  I've got something like 50 stone hatches now so my lime rates are probably a lot better than they were back then.

My problem exactly. I rushed to Day 120 to see how much Lime I could get for reaching the surface. I got a ton of the stuff ready, but I neglected so many things that feel I have to restart to do it properly. Going all in was a bad idea.

Also, I found that Sage hatches go perfect with Stone hatches or really any other type of wrangling setup. One omelette seems to feed 7k worth of calories to a Sage, and when you have so many critters laying eggs it just works out perfectly. Remember to set the feeder limit to 2kg, as eggs will rot fast and they barely need to eat them given how much calories they get.

[0xFADE]

2 minutes ago, chemie said:

Sorry but 50 hatches, which is 5 ranches and 5 dup ranchers is way off balance to make a dozen blast doors.  Plus if you lasted the 100 cycles needed to make that many eggshells, you are fine for long term power so dont need solar.

I'm just saying i'm in a state right now where I have over ranched hatches where before when I was complaining about the lime I wasn't ranching them at all.  So I am more limey than before but still not limey enough.

3 minutes ago, BadlyBurned said:

My problem exactly. I rushed to Day 120 to see how much Lime I could get for reaching the surface. I got a ton of the stuff ready, but I neglected so many things that feel I have to restart to do it properly. Going all in was a bad idea.

Also, I found that Sage hatches go perfect with Stone hatches or really any other type of wrangling setup. One omelette seems to feed 7k worth of calories to a Sage, and when you have so many critters laying eggs it just works out perfectly. Remember to set the feeder limit to 2kg, as eggs will rot fast and they barely need to eat them given how much calories they get.

I'd never considered feeding eggs to sage hatches.  When the focus is on the egg shells and not the meat then doing that seems like a pretty good idea.  I'll have to see if the sages can come back in to my life.

Regarding the surface I have also been completely ignoring the 300c temps everything is at.  I will need something nice to deal with those too.  Maybe a room where they deliver the rocks that is filled with polluted water?  It isn't hot enough to be useful.

[BadlyBurned]

2 minutes ago, 0xFADE said:

I'm just saying i'm in a state right now where I have over ranched hatches where before when I was complaining about the lime I wasn't ranching them at all.  So I am more limey than before but still not limey enough.

I'd never considered feeding eggs to sage hatches.  When the focus is on the egg shells and not the meat then doing that seems like a pretty good idea.  I'll have to see if the sages can come back in to my life.

Its the whole reason Pacu farming works for me so well. They give you so much lime in the 50 cycles or so you can maintain them, but the calories you get as a byproduct are insane. I have a half of a MILLION calories by the time my last Pacu dies,

One omelette gives 7k calories which takes days to be consumed before they need more. I found even putting just 2kg of omlettes in their feeder is a waste because its rare that 2 Sage's will even need to eat before that goes rotten.

Because of this, I'm thinking of building a stable with a mess hall ON TOP, so that the sweeper can fill their feeder from my fridge and nothing will ever be wasted.

[0xFADE]

Hmm.  I'd have to make a room with a food pit that has co2 in it to keep the food from spoiling.  Even still only supplying one at a time on a high priority should be enough to keep a bunch alive if they only need to eat one over several days.

[BadlyBurned]

1 minute ago, 0xFADE said:

Hmm.  I'd have to make a room with a food pit that has co2 in it to keep the food from spoiling.  Even still only supplying one at a time on a high priority should be enough to keep a bunch alive if they only need to eat one over several days.

Omelettes need very little space. One fridge pretty much held the whole 500k worth of calories. I never though about using gases to save energy with that. I wanted to use a Mess room above a Stable setup mainly to save on time so my dupe's have one less place to travel/supply.

1) I thought chlorine or vacuum sterilized food. Does Co2 work as well? If so, what kind of pressure is needed?

2) Would that work if a critter feeder was submerged in the gas? I know a food box does, so I assume it'll be the same.

[JonnyMonroe]

2 minutes ago, BadlyBurned said:

1) I thought chlorine or vacuum sterilized food. Does Co2 work as well? If so, what kind of pressure is needed?

any pressure

3 minutes ago, BadlyBurned said:

2) Would that work if a critter feeder was submerged in the gas? I know a food box does, so I assume it'll be the same.

Yes. Items in storage interact with the ambient atmosphere only so any storage will work.

[0xFADE]

hydrogen chlorine and co2 are sterile for what food needs to not spoil.  co2 happens to be the heaviest so it always stays at the bottom.  It doesn't seem to require much pressure at all.

Chlorine just actively kills off germs.

[Hellshound38]

3 hours ago, 0xFADE said:

Yes. I tested a rail stop for egg holding and it does not work.  They stop incubating on a rail.  I'd love for it to work.  It would be pretty great.

 

https://imgur.com/a/uqZB9cw

Working for me,

maybe cause its inside a Ranch? 

[0xFADE]

Nice design.  I'll have to test further.

[0xFADE]

Alright.  It appears to be a bug.  It looks like what is happening is the egg on the line caries over the incubation state it had from the last thing it was in ie the loader.  When it goes through a bridge it resets back to incubating.  Before disconnecting the loader I had incubating eggs on the top portion(that was past the bridge) and non incubating eggs before the bridge.

I'll have to use this for as long as it lasts.  I'd really like to get back to fully automated egg ranching.

[Hellshound38]

9 hours ago, 0xFADE said:

Alright.  It appears to be a bug.  It looks like what is happening is the egg on the line caries over the incubation state it had from the last thing it was in ie the loader.  When it goes through a bridge it resets back to incubating.  Before disconnecting the loader I had incubating eggs on the top portion(that was past the bridge) and non incubating eggs before the bridge.

I'll have to use this for as long as it lasts.  I'd really like to get back to fully automated egg ranching.

Yeah I have been using it and my ranches are 100% automated.

I have the rail loop in a second room, with a dropoff set to 0 max -  auto wrangle - so it maintains 8 in the primary room.

Also a kill room for the extras that hatch.

I wish I could make the loop smaller (2 instead of 4 maybe?), cause it hatches too many eggs. However, I refuse to micro the egg cracking so it works for now.

[JonnyMonroe]

1 hour ago, Hellshound38 said:

I wish I could make the loop smaller (2 instead of 4 maybe?),

Run the rail backwards through the bridge:

 

should only hold 2.