Still waiting for bosses to scale with players in the server

[Auth]

56 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Well, the problem with that is it works in reverse. Get too many people, and the bosses become too easy. A scaling mechanic would help to keep the difficulty a little more consistent.

This problem is so minute that it's a laughable concept to bend the entire boss mechanic for the rare occurrence a full server of skilled players is working in unison to take down 1 boss at the same instant. I have yet to see more than 4 people at a time go for deerclops, and usually with so much randomization, someone ends up dying because bosses are nearly impossible to kite properly if they keep flinching all the time.

And you say that the bosses become easier with more people-

Yes, exactly.

That's the whole point of a raid boss. You get a good group together, you gear up, you all go to tackle it down. Bosses like Bee Queen and Toadstool are prime examples - You basically need some players to do one thing and another group of players to do another thing in order to do it efficiently. That is literally the entire point. However, at the same time, there is still a shadow that "You technically can solo them"

If you think bosses are just a breeze if you have more people, there's an issue. If you want a team of 6 to have 2 dark swords each, guess what you need to dedicate some time to doing? Nightmare fuel gathering. You want everyone to have an orange staff for fuelweaver? Got to spend time dedicated to that. What's that, you aren't a flawless dodger and want healing items and food? Looks like you need to make that too. The time required to get all of this only expands as the amount of players do. So don't just think of the fight, think before the fight.

Of course, if you really want bosses to be harder for a group of people, why not just use an axe? Don't bother getting good stuff, just go with the garbage and storm the guy. Make it a challenge for yourself- Not a challenge for everyone else. Some people still aren't skilled enough to take down Dfly in a group of 8 (Saw it happen in a pub. Ghost insanity was... insane.) so why implement a feature expecting everyone to be good enough to tackle it when CLEARLY the player base skill level is more scattered and messy than dropping Maxwell's fragile ego on the floor?

You are fully within your power to make fights easier or harder. Play the game how you want to play it, but don't walk in asking for the whole game to cater to you on a silver platter with it. That's just silly.

[DarkXero]

Here are my thoughts about how a scaling system would work.

First, the system would apply to bosses only. Second, it would initially work like Mr Dapperbeak mentioned. For example, I'm going to use the Deerclops. Deerclops spawns with 2000 health. When a player attacks it, it scales up the health. So for 1 player you have 2000 hp, 2 players get 4000 hp, 3 gets 6000, 4 gets 8000, 5 gets 10000, 6 gets 12000. The good thing about this is that a solo player won't have to get wrecked by a 12000 hp Deerclops in a 6 player server, as only people who actively attack it would bump its health.

Some problems arise here. What about players that hit it, give up, and leave? A solution here would be to put a damage tracker, so that people that do this stop counting for health scale. If a player doesn't attack the boss for a day, it stops being considered. For example, Deerclops has 4000 hp and loses 1000 hp, stays at 3000 hp. A player leaves. The other player may choose to deal with 3000 hp, or leave for a day, and come back to find a 2000 hp Deerclops.

Another issue, scaling may get bonkers. The Dragonfly has attack openings where she can get stunned, but the Deerclops has the same openings no matter how many players are there. So unless players use blow darts, 6 players might as well be 3 unless they are perfectly synchronized. Also, not everybody can carry their own weight as if it was single player, so one player might count as half of one. Instead, it may be wise to adjust the scaling to be 2000, 4000, 6000, 7000, 8000, 8500 with diminishing increases. The Toadstool has 52500 health, and doubling it right off the bat for two people is absurd. Decrease it a bit and give it a custom scaling: 30000, 40000, 52500, 60000, 70000, 82500. The trick is thinking about how a monster operates from 1 player and beyond, instead of making it super tedious for 1 guy, balanced for 3, and super easy for 6 and over.

Another issue is the question: why would you choose to kill a 4000 hp Deerclops vs a 2000 hp one? Just leave the pro to get rid of it, right? Right now, teamwork is good because since hp doesn't scale, more hands means more damage and ends the battle faster. With scaling, we need to increase the loot rewards to give some meaning to teamwork. You might think that the boss is easier with two players regardless of the health increase therefore we don't have to touch the loot. But in reality, Don't Starve doesn't have deep combat gameplay for the most part. More hands means you can deal with Toadstool shrooms or Dragonfly Lavae faster, but you can use weather pains or walls to replace those hands. In the end, what matters is the DPS to minimize the time spent fighting and the resources spent.

Due to the nature of some items, increased loot poses a problem. For example, take a Deerclops that was killed by 6 players. Imagine he drops 6 eyeballs (if you want to say "he only has one eyeballz", alright, he drops 6 loot packages, one for each player, each loot package rolls for the loot table of the boss). Now you got 6 eyebrellas and 6 potential houndius shootius. This can be good, or bad. It's an interesting situation. It's good for more casual players, since they don't have to wait for 6 winters (3 days of constant playing) to get good loot for Spring. However, it makes the game reach the plateau of stability way sooner because not only you are prepped, your friends are too. With very powerful items.

Maybe challenge should surge organically by tossing stuff at you, instead of making you play the waiting game for 3 real days. Or maybe we can tell the others to suck it, and use an umbrella and a top hat like real men do (or straw hat, pretty parasol, and standing under a tree, like real real men). Another thing we can do with loot increases is make it with diminishing returns. For example, for 6 players killing a Deerclops, you get 6 loot boxes with the following chances at spitting a Deerclops eyeball: 100%, 50%, 25%, 10%, 10%, 10%.

In any case, these sort of changes won't ever come to this kind of game. Stuff is designed for groups of 3 average players. You also don't need any of the Bee Queen/Fuelweaver/Toadstool/Dragonfly/Klaus/Antlion drops to make a living comfortably and they are all optional solo health sponges boredom. Customize their health yourself, build a mega base like all single players do, join a dedicated server with a good community, or play a different game. Personally, I soloed all bosses using Wilson and expensive equipment to see what was it like, was bored beyond belief and swore to never solo them again. Except for Deerclops, Bearger, Goose, of course. And maybe Klaus and the Antlion. Maybe, if I feel like it.

So yeah, now we wait for Event #2 or Hamlet.

[kertinker]

It's not like it's the end of the world if players get actually rewarded for working together. That's the point of the game, is don't starve together, so it makes sense if they'd make the harder challenges more unfeasible if you didn't work together.

Scaling with player count would penalize people for playing together, making it seem pointless to play together, when everything's just as hard to do alone.

That said... the limited drops really does mean that if you're gonna work together, you should increase the amount of certain things in your world. Just not the difficulty of them. I'd be fine if there were three deerclopses every winter, with three people playing on the server. A single deerclops that's three times as hard is fine, but making him only a third as hard if you don't have any friends seems counterproductive.

[spideswine]

6 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

But if all 3 of them are experienced, then with the fixed amount of health Deerclops dies in no time at all. Because the more people you have, the less damage each one needs to contribute.

With 3 people he becomes more or less original DS level of difficulty, as his attacks are aoe and inexperienced players will mess with your kiting.

 

As to everything else you've said: Yes, there's already plenty of reasons that encourage solo play, there's also those that encourage multiplayer, but as is people are already very reluctant to deal with new players joining their server(and with good reason), do we really need even more reasons to discourage accepting new players in what is supposed to be a multiplayer game?

6 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

A scaling mechanic would just mean you could fight the bosses solo without having to rely on cheese and/or Wolfgang.

I don't think everyone views cheese the same as you do.

6 hours ago, csc_unit said:

If you can't beat the boss alone, well it is a skill and technic related, because they are all soloable. 

I would like to see a non character specific(so wilson) toadstool solo which isn't exceptionally tedious/costly.

6 hours ago, csc_unit said:

Whats a cheese? Is 2 lureplants on Klaus a cheese? maybe yeah.

I strongly disagree.

[Sinister_Fang]

5 hours ago, spideswine said:

I don't think everyone views cheese the same as you do.

And I don't think everyone views cheese the same way you do. That's because it's a very opinionated subject. So I'm not really sure what you're getting at here...

[spideswine]

1 hour ago, Sinister_Fang said:

And I don't think everyone views cheese the same way you do. That's because it's a very opinionated subject. So I'm not really sure what you're getting at here...

That what you see as negative others might see as positive, and while that is always the case with right about anything, it's quite important just how many people view it each way.

What I'm trying to imply is that a lot of people like the fact that there are various different approaches(some of which are quite unintuitive) and setups to deal with bosses(who's effectiveness vary depending on how many people you intend to fight the boss with), instead of just running at them with the most obvious tools.

[Sinister_Fang]

1 hour ago, spideswine said:

What I'm trying to imply is that a lot of people like the fact that there are various different approaches(some of which are quite unintuitive) and setups to deal with bosses(who's effectiveness vary depending on how many people you intend to fight the boss with), instead of just running at them with the most obvious tools.

And it was that implying that kinda bothered me. I never said that any setup whatsoever is considered cheese...

[spideswine]

6 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

And it was that implying that kinda bothered me. I never said that any setup whatsoever is considered cheese...

Well, so far you've called most things I can think of to be cheese, there's only a few left.

Is a tentacle field cheese?

Is bunnyman bee queen cheese? Is beefalo bee queen cheese?

Any other setups I forgot about?

[MondayNight]

Hmm. From what I've seen written in these forums, some try-hards consider not cheese just the classic kiting-and-tanking approach (with a bit of Lazy Explorer use). Anything else? Cheese and/or exploit.

 

In my case if this game didn't permit use of bait for pig/bunny farms, rock lobsters pens, gobblers etc, not to mention the more advanced boss farms (also the lol-factor, oh those sweet DST ironies and humour noir), DST would've died a long time ago from my preferences. Raw surviving in scarcity can carry you that much before beginning to be just a repetitive boring story of run-and/or-smack. Let's face it, this is a sandbox without an actual conclusive narrative, just bits and pieces with a lot of hypothesizing; so creativity in tackling choirs from various approaches is needed if one wants the game be long-living - aka game needs to be able to provide said various approaches from mechanics standpoint, the more the better!

[FreyaMaluk]

tbh, I think it's a god idea that we have a mod to do the scaling for us if peeps wanna experiment with scaling up or down, cuz trying to do that officially would be a high source of trolling in public servers. 

My advice for people interested in scaling is to get together in a trustworthy group of people to use the mod for scaling up health and dmg for bosses for the extra challenge or in the case you feel like adjusting down for solo playthroughs.

 

[Sinister_Fang]

8 hours ago, spideswine said:

Is a tentacle field cheese?

Is bunnyman bee queen cheese? Is beefalo bee queen cheese?

It kinda depends on the amount. If it's so much that you don't even need to put in any work, then yeah, it's cheese.

8 hours ago, spideswine said:

Any other setups I forgot about?

Walls for the beequeen and dragonfly. I don't consider them cheese.

Some people consider gunpowder to be cheese, but I personally don't. It takes a lot of time to get enough for it to actually be worth it. That, and it has a fairly small blast radius so it's possible to miss.

Darts aren't cheese for a similar reason to gunpowder. It takes a lot of time and resources to get enough of them that they're worth using.

Weather pains for Toadstool's mushroom trees aren't cheese.

The pan flute isn't cheese.

Not sure why we've gone so far off-topic that I'm defining what I consider to be cheese or not, but here we are.

[Whoneedspacee]

Most people define cheese as a strategy of which you have no possible way to **** up. If there’s no or very little error in which you can lose then it is cheese.

Cheese - 

 

Not cheese - 

 

 

Each run can still be more impressive and varying in skill, in fact cheese runs are still perfectly fine for kills, but it says something when you actually understand the boss enough to beat it without just being stronger and more equipped.

Even runs that aren’t technically cheese can be a little close to braindead like that face tanking in the group dragonfly video. Cheese just takes the braindeadness to a whole next level and usually involves tons of expensive items to deal damage, healing, or other monsters, or some other building like flingos to help you.

Keep in mind that using pig men and bunnymen is not cheese, nor are flingomatics for things like lavae. It’s just when it reaches the point where there’s 50 bunnymen simultaneously attacking the boss and killing it for you while also blocking it from reaching you, you aren’t actually doing anything anymore, that is cheese.

[spideswine]

7 hours ago, Whoneedspacee said:

Most people define cheese as a strategy of which you have no possible way to **** up. If there’s no or very little error in which you can lose then it is cheese.

Wouldn't tentacle fields be rather easy to mess up in? Especially considering they are probably the second most common cause of death for experienced players, the first being bunnymen.

How about the fuelweaver lureplant cheese(where you get it stuck near the spikes then tp to the other side and beat it to death while it tries to close the gate), it definitely takes some practice to get it stuck there, and is definetly something that can be messed up, is it not cheese then?

As to the fuelweaver video you've shown, wouldn't that just make multiple person fuelweaver runs cheese? Or wolfgang/wigfrid/wx cheeses in their own right? Each one of these characters is about as bulky wearing regular armor as other characters wearing thulecite armor(healing in general is rather cheap anyway).

 

My main issue with these definitions is that DST is a PvE game, in a sense everything is very hard to mess up,as once you get a certain amount of experience/knowledge your enemies won't prove a threat. So I don't see a difference between knowledge being used to build an elaborate setup or experience being used to avoid pretty much every single attack.

I just see cheese as things which seem dirty or lame(very vague terms), so just standing there beating fuelweaver I see as cheese, whereas watching 50 bunnymen wail on bee queen I don't see as cheese.

[Casm]

I don't understand why you're so anti-mod. You want the bosses to scale? There's a mod for that and it scales in real-time so if you're playing with 4 players and someone jumps out, health is automatically adjusted accordingly. Hell, I have a solo server that runs that mod because I don't own the original Don't Starve and this mod gets me closer to what that experience would be like. Why does it bother you that the changes you want comes from a mod as opposed to an official update?

With all due respect to the original poster, this sounds like a you problem.

[spideswine]

12 minutes ago, Casm said:

I don't understand why you're so anti-mod. You want the bosses to scale?

Because the mod in question is terrible, at least the default settings are.

12 minutes ago, Casm said:

Hell, I have a solo server that runs that mod because I don't own the original Don't Starve and this mod gets me closer to what that experience would be like.

No, it doesn't, and if you didin't play solo you'd know that it doesn't.

It's for the most part just easy mode(it doesn't really readjust the difficulty, it turns almost all bosses into a joke one way or another), people think that it's a solo game adjustment because they servery overestimate how much extra players actually end up helping, if you'd play with other people you'd know that.

That's not to say that you shouldn't use it, this is a sandbox game, but it's really not a solution unless you're looking for easy mode.

12 minutes ago, Casm said:

With all due respect to the original poster, but this sounds like a you problem.

Aside from toadstool it kinda is.

[FreyaMaluk]

15 minutes ago, spideswine said:

Because the mod in question is terrible, at least the default settings are.

why u arguing over default settings in mod, when said mod allows u to scale up or down with multiple options to do so?

if some people want to scale down why u argue over a personal decision? if u wanna scale up the same mod gives u the tools to do it.. u can scale up booses health playing alone if u wanna.. so the mod is actually not a problem here..

Automatic Health Adjust as world gen settings in the game are just tools for shaping the game the way u want.. honestly, the elitist crap is getting old.

[spideswine]

1 hour ago, FreyaMaluk said:

why u arguing over default settings in mod, when said mod allows u to scale up or down with multiple options to do so?

Well the default settings in general are more important than people give them credit for.

In this mod specifically, people who only play solo and don't get the game come to it in the hopes of adjusting the game for a solo world, they end up with a hardcore easy mode.

That's not to say there's something wrong with using an easy mode mod, it's just that it's not what OP was asking for.

1 hour ago, FreyaMaluk said:

if some people want to scale down why u argue over a personal decision?

Because they're not trying to scale down the difficulty, they are asking to scale bosses with the amount of people, but the default settings of that mod end up with easy mode(It's a bit worse than that really, as it doesn't so much scale down difficulty as it turns the bosses into jokes).

1 hour ago, FreyaMaluk said:

if u wanna scale up the same mod gives u the tools to do it.. u can scale up booses health playing alone if u wanna.. so the mod is actually not a problem here..

I'd argue it lacks the tools for sensible scaling, but that's the least of my issues with it.

1 hour ago, FreyaMaluk said:

Automatic Health Adjust as world gen settings in the game are just tools for shaping the game the way u want.. honestly, the elitist crap is getting old.

Problem is people want it to scale it to something sensible for solo play, yet these same people are also often aware that they don't exactly know what would be sensible for solo play(they haven't really tried multiplayer so they don't know what to compare it to), so they use the default settings...which are absolute garbage.

As far as what sensible settings would be, it seems that for most people who have tried multiplayer it would be just the same settings as in multiplayer(at least mostly).

[FreyaMaluk]

25 minutes ago, spideswine said:

Well the default settings in general are more important than people give them credit for.

In this mod specifically, people who only play solo and don't get the game come to it in the hopes of adjusting the game for a solo world, they end up with a hardcore easy mode.

That's not to say there's something wrong with using an easy mode mod, it's just that it's not what OP was asking for.

Because they're not trying to scale down the difficulty, they are asking to scale bosses with the amount of people, but the default settings of that mod end up with easy mode(It's a bit worse than that really, as it doesn't so much scale down difficulty as it turns the bosses into jokes).

I'd argue it lacks the tools for sensible scaling, but that's the least of my issues with it.

Problem is people want it to scale it to something sensible for solo play, yet these same people are also often aware that they don't exactly know what would be sensible for solo play(they haven't really tried multiplayer so they don't know what to compare it to), so they use the default settings...which are absolute garbage.

As far as what sensible settings would be, it seems that for most people who have tried multiplayer it would be just the same settings(at least mostly).

u clearly haven't tried the mod yourself.. the mod adjusts health for bosses and mobs according to the number of players in the server... that's exactly what op is asking for.

the default mod settings are not a set in stone rules.. you can shape the experience the way u want to.. increasing or decreasing the values per player... to a top health bar... pls explore the mod before bashing something u clearly haven't used

the mod is aiming to use the same values in single player and translate to a solo dst experience. it's not about random numbers.. the base for the solo scaling is the single player numbers.. which is sensible... besides, the mod has many tools to shape your way to dst numbers... you can choose to use default profiles or change manually each mob's health... as i said.. it's about people experiences and how they wanna shape them... 

it's a tool... like many other tools in the game... if people want to have an "easier" introduction to the game before playing with others, who are u to bash them for it... let people learn and play the game and stop this nonsensical elitist way of thinking.. 

[Casm]

Well, I personally don't feel like the health adjust mod makes the game easy-mode but that's just my opinion. Again, I only use it on my solo server but I feel that Klaus and the Bee Queen still provide a reasonable amount of challenge and danger without being the complete pushovers you're describing. Though the 4 original giants (Deerclops, Moosegoose, Dragonfly and Bearger) could be considered pushovers. With the exception of The Dragonfly though, they're pretty much pushovers modless anyway, the fights just last longer. And you're right, I haven't played the original Don't Starve so I don't have a point of reference to compare with. Are those four bosses really that different in Reign of Giants vs the default modded versions in DST? (For the record, I have killed every boss in the game modless with a group. Just putting that out there).

As for the actual mechanics of the fight, I do see where you're coming from. The health adjust mod only takes it so far but you're right, the Bee Queen still spawns a lot of adds, as does the Dragonfly and the Toadstool still requires (for me anyway) several Weather Pains for me to have a chance to keep up etc. However, I don't have a problem with that. A few bunnies with bee hats to help deal with the bee adds and a reason to go out of my way every Spring to kill Moosegooses (Moosegeese?) actually adds to my enjoyment and gives me projects and goals to work towards. I haven't made it to the Ancient Fuelweaver yet though (solo with the mod), but I'm working towards it.

This is all my own opinion though. And I'm not trying to be rude, but while the OP is here complaining that he isn't able to have fun with 60% of the bosses in either solo or small group games because they're designed for larger group play, I'm having a blast in my solo game killing 90% of the bosses (so far) with what I consider to be more than enough danger and challenge to make the fights entertaining.

Anyway, I wouldn't expect a balance update anytime soon (if ever). Mainly because I personally don't think that it's actually a real issue and can easily worked around, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that opinion. And while can't speak for everyone, I personally would much rather the developers spend their time focusing on bringing us new content instead of balancing perceived balance issues that generally boils down to personal opinion anyway. Don't get me wrong, I would welcome such a change, but it's more of a quality of life change that I would view as very low priority as opposed to an actual issue that needs addressing.

[spideswine]

11 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

u clearly haven't tried the mod yourself..

I have.

I proceeded to build a wall then facetank dfly in two minutes, then watched a bearger solo bee queen, needless to say it was pretty god awful.

I haven't tried gunpowder there, but I can divide max health by 200, the results aren't pretty(15 for bee queen/klaus, 40 for toadstool, 30 for fuelweaver).

11 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

the mod adjusts health for bosses and mobs according to the number of players in the server... that's exactly what op is asking for.

No, it just changes it to easy mode, OP isn't asking for that.

11 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

the default mod settings are not a set in stone rules.. you can shape the experience the way u want to.. increasing or decreasing the values per player... to a top health bar...

Yeah but OP doesn't really know what to expect, hence he is asking the devs to balance it, and not some random mod author(who as far as balance goes did a terrible job with the default settings).

11 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

pls explore the mod before bashing something u clearly haven't used

I am bashing something I have used though.

11 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

the mod is aiming to use the same values in single player and translate to a solo dst experience. it's not about random numbers.. the base for the solo scaling is the single player numbers.. which is sensible...

It really isn't, dst changes numbers due to the rollback feature and cheaper revives as well. I have pretty much never seen anyone help me fight the same werepig, and yet they still have increased health. That mod is hot garbage(unless you want easy/joke mode).

11 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

it's a tool... like many other tools in the game... if people want to have an "easier" introduction to the game before playing with others, who are u to bash them for it... let people learn and play the game and stop this nonsensical elitist way of thinking.. 

I keep saying that I have nothing against easy mode, what the hell are you talking about?

Thing is it doesn't claim to be a set of training tools, or an easy mode to learn to play solo.

[spideswine]

14 minutes ago, Casm said:

Well, I personally don't feel like the health adjust mod makes the game easy-mode but that's just my opinion.

I have both solo and multiplayer experience though, and I mostly mean that in "I can compare it to the way things usually are".

15 minutes ago, Casm said:

but I feel that Klaus and the Bee Queen still provide a reasonable amount of challenge and danger without being the complete pushovers you're describing.

It really depends on your approach, at least for bee queen.

Even with reduced health she can still swarm you with grumbles, but if you bring some pigs/bunnies/beefalos they can distract them long enough for you to burn through the close to 0 amount of health she has, also gather 15 gunpowder for bee crown+19.5 jellybeans+bundlewrap reciepe is hardly a challenge.

So well, she can be challenging if you make her to be one, but she's really not with that amount of health.

As far as klaus goes, I'm sorry, but with 2k+1k health I just don't see how he won't melt nearly instantly, I just can't imagine this being a challenge.

As to the 3 giants(not dfly) being pushovers, well, with Goose/Goose rng range, I wouldn't consider her a pushover, but I don't think cutting her health in half is too big of a deal, same for bearger(actually that's probably a "challenge", since that means he can take on less treeguards, so you'll get less wood), it somewhat affects clops though, as with 4k health he will generally cause insanity, but with 2k he generally won't.

27 minutes ago, Casm said:

as does the Dragonfly and the Toadstool still requires (for me anyway) several Weather Pains for me to have a chance to keep up etc

I'm not exactly sure what you're doing with dfly there, no walls for whatever reason? I suppose you could just put it to sleep and wait for the lavae to die. As to toadstool, yeah, he is pretty damn tedious in solo but 7.5k hp is just pretty much nothing(20k would probably be fine), it's a stack of gunpowder.

31 minutes ago, Casm said:

This is all my own opinion though. And I'm not trying to be rude, but while the OP is here complaining that he isn't able to have fun with 60% of the bosses in either solo or small group games because they're designed for larger group play, I'm having a blast in my solo game killing 90% of the bosses (so far) with what I consider to be more than enough danger and challenge to make the fights entertaining.

As I've said before, ultimately I agree with you, I disagree with all the reasoning behind it, but this is for the most part OP being his own problem. This is mostly because Imo the game is mostly already balanced for solo play(toadstool somewhat excluded), and he could turn down the difficulty with mods. At the same time, I mean no disrespect to the OP, he's just fallen under a common misunderstanding and I completely get where he's coming from, I was under the same impression at some point as well.

34 minutes ago, Casm said:

Anyway, I wouldn't expect a balance update anytime soon (if ever). Mainly because I personally don't think that it's actually a real issue and can easily worked around, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that opinion. And while can't speak for everyone, I personally would much rather the developers spend their time focusing on bringing us new content instead of balancing perceived balance issues that generally boils down to personal opinion anyway. Don't get me wrong, I would welcome such a change, but it's more of a quality of life change that I would view as very low priority as opposed to an actual issue that needs addressing.

I mean I think dfly is in a pretty damn bad spot(it's a pushover at 2+ people, and very tedious solo, whereas other bosses at least have some range they are sensible in), though I guess people are used to it, but yeah they have higher priorities.

[FreyaMaluk]

2 minutes ago, spideswine said:

I have.

I proceeded to build a wall then facetank dfly in two minutes, then watched a bearger soloed bee queen, needless to say it was pretty god awful.

I haven't tried gunpowder there, but I can divide max health by 200, the results aren't pretty(15 for bee queen/klaus, 40 for toadstool, 30 for fuelweaver).

No, it just changes it to easy mode, OP isn't asking for that.

Yeah but OP doesn't really know what to expect, hence he is asking the devs to balance it, and not some random mod author(who as far as balance goes did a terrible bad with the default settings).

I am bashing something I have used though.

It really isn't, dst changes number due to the rollback feature and cheaper revives as well. I have pretty much never seen anyone help me fight the same werepig, and yet they still have increased health. That mod is hot garbage(unless you want easy/joke mode).

I keep saying that I have nothing against easy mode, what the hell are you talking about?

Thing is it doesn't claim to be a set of training tools, or an easy mode to learn to play solo.

omg... u can leave mobs health untouched and adjust only bosses... dude.. that's why im telling u haven't fully used all the options

it's not about ez mode, unless u consider single player ez mode... if u want to scale the health for 4 people, the mod gives u the option to that considering the value of single player and scaling for 4 or more players.. thats exactly what the mod does.. tha's exactly wat op is asking for

but if you want the base health for single player to be higher than the suggested "default" value.. the mod allows u to do so as well..

u can even set values for every boss and mob to be higher than dst values and then scaling even higher for more players ... it's about scaling...

u think people are so stupid they cannot figure out how scaling works and read the options in the menu, do you?

 

[Casm]

The OP was talking about non-cheese strategies and you were talking about not wanting 'easy-mode'. Using walls to deal with the Dragonfly adds for example would be considered cheese and IMO ezmode. I mean, if you don't want easy mode, I don't know why you'd bother cheesing the bosses...that's pretty contradictory. Still though, the Dragonfly with the mod only has about 3k health solo, so fighting her without those strats can be a lot of fun and challenging without being gimmicked. It also gives a nice incentive to craft scalemail. What else am I going to use those scales for!?  You should give it a shot.

Klaus, not sure what to say there. He hits hard so you have to be on the ball to avoid his attacks, which is doubly hard once he gets his bite attack. Also, dealing with the Krampus spawns can be tricky solo. Again, I'm talking cheese-less strats here. Granted, he's not nearly as difficult as he would be with his normal amount of health but the point of the mod is to make these fights more manageable based on the number of players currently playing. In other words, it's intended to be soloable with the mod.

On a side note, I don't think I've ever used Gunpowder to fight a boss in this game even modless. I'm not sure why though, lol. I just never bothered with it.

[spideswine]

5 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

omg... u can leave mobs health untouched and adjust only bosses... dude.. that's why im telling u haven't fully used all the options

Whole point is that the best way to use that mod is to not use that mod.

6 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

it's not about ez mode, unless u consider single player ez mode...

Single player has it's own challenges, and the raid bosses are completely absent from it.

And I agree it's not about ez mode, it's about playing ez mode while deluding yourself that you're not, otherwise it would've just been called ez mode, and not "health readjust".

7 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

if u want to scale the health for 4 people, the mod gives u the option to that considering the value of single player and scaling for 4 or more players.. thats exactly what the mod does.. tha's exactly wat op is asking for

No, op is asking for an official scaling of difficulty so it'll remain more or less the same based on player count, that mod is just ez mode. Also it's a mod(so not official).

Sure you can readjust that mod to be sensible(just not using it), but the default settings are garbage and OP clearly isn't too knowleable about the game's mechanics(which there's nothing wrong with), and hence is looking for a good source of proper settings, so not the mod author, not himself, and probably not you or me as well, hence the devs.

12 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

but if you want the base health for single player to be higher than the suggested "default" value.. the mod allows u to do so as well..

u can even set values for every boss and mob to be higher than dst values and then scaling even higher for more players ... it's about scaling...

u think people are so stupid they cannot figure out how scaling works and read the options in the menu, do you?

Point was/is, all of the options in that mod are bad, the best option is to not use it. Part of it is due to implementation, another is because it's a mod.

[FreyaMaluk]

10 minutes ago, spideswine said:

Whole point is that the best way to use that mod is to not use that mod.

Single player has it's own challenges, and the raid bosses are completely absent from it.

And I agree it's not about ez mode, it's about playing ez mode while deluding yourself that you're not, otherwise it would've just been called ez mode, and not "health readjust".

No, op is asking for an official scaling of difficulty so it'll remain more or less the same based on player count, that mod is just ez mode. Also it's a mod(so not official).

Sure you can readjust that mod to be sensible(just not using it), but the default settings are garbage and OP clearly isn't too knowleable about the game's mechanics(which there's nothing wrong with), and hence is looking for a good source of proper settings, so not the mod author, not himself, and probably not you or me as well, hence the devs.

Point was/is, all of the options in that mod are bad, the best option is to not use it. Part of it is due to implementation, another is because it's a mod.

great argument.. its a mod.. its inherently bad... lol 10/10..

no point discussing with u when u think mods are bad.. cuz .. they are bad per se... geez

besides, what gives u the idea i regularly play with that mod enabled? and i'm not deluded about anything.. and i ask u to respectfully don't take this on a personal level cuz im not insulting u and i expect the same from intelligent discussion parties.

i like to see what mods offer cuz even if elitist and purist don't wanna admit it.. mods have greatly contributed to the development of the game. 

"all the options are bad".. but u never tell why.. or which numbers might be better.....if you have better scaling ideas u can suggest them to the author of the mod or try and help with a mod yourself.. cuz i dont see the devs thinking about scaling anytime soon..