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I have been told that Klei has set certain output temperatures on machines, such as the water sieve.  How do people know this?  It isn't in the description of the item or under the info once you select the item.

I have a water sieve that I currently pipe 85 degree polluted water and get 104 degree water out.  How do I know that it isn't adding 20 degrees to the water as part of the process?  If I pipe in 60 degree polluted water, does it make the water 81?  Or does it make it 104?

Is the intention of Klei that I should find this out from trial and error?  Or is there something I am missing?  I only play on a survival basis without using "glitches"?  I struggle to understand how heat works in this game, as I have posted about before.  Since I love the game, excuse what I believe to be a  broken heat system, I am forced to use the "fixed" output.  If Klei has endorsed this component of the game, fixed outputs, why are they not labeled and explained as part of the heat solution?  How do I find out the outputs?  I would like a developer of Klei to let me know if it is intended to make that information found through multiple bases and learning the hard way.  

I love this game, well its potential, so much.  But I feel like those of us who enjoy the survival only element and want to learn on our own without the endless youtube videos explaining the "glitches" are left with frustrating experience after frustrating experience.  Maybe its me, but I feel like the information gap between what I need to know and what the game provides is to big.  I don't want to spend hours watching youtube videos to learn how a building works, that should be the job of the developer to me.  If not, please let me know.  Maybe I'm just part of the wrong community and I need to move on.  Maybe there are other people who feel the same way.  I don't know.  I'm tired of not understanding what the game is doing and searching for crap like "borg cube".  I don't want to watch a video of someone in edit mode creating a system.  I want to play survival and fix my problems my own way because I understand the game.  

 

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5 hours ago, smithdl said:

I have a water sieve that I currently pipe 85 degree polluted water and get 104 degree water out.  How do I know that it isn't adding 20 degrees to the water as part of the process?  If I pipe in 60 degree polluted water, does it make the water 81?  Or does it make it 104?

Can you please post a picture of that part and one with piping overlay?

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This game is still in early release. I'm guesstimating there's at least 1 more year's worth of work remaining in just updates and 3 months+ work left in optimizing this game and another 3 months for removing all possible bugs and crashes.

the 40 Degree cap is to prevent the heat generation from going out of hand in the base. Every action you do creates more heat. So in the long run, its unsustainable.

Just bear with them for the time being. I for one am extremely frustrated with the insulated pipes not working in build 261452 (along with a great many other things...)

There are plenty of bugs to fix ... and every new update is introducing a plethora of new ones. So just grind your teeth and plough along. We all signed up for this when we saw the early release; yet bought the game.

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farenheit celsius difference ooz

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this can be read as Destroys and Creates, but the truth is, the devs can choose to set it as a variable(refinery)(which would require adding sampling) or fixed... they set it as a fixed value, perhaps it helps to skip a lot of needless calculations considering that by the time the machine has pushed the water through it the temp of the filter medium and machine both get ignored here while some machines produce materials at the temp of themselves.(nat gas gene).  Since we know they have options then.....

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I edited my original post with pictures to show the temp difference.  What has your experience been with the water sieve?  Does it come out at a different temperature for you?  Is it usually fixed?

 

This is where I wish there was more information about how this works with temperature.  How would I even know that it is NOT suppose to be 104?

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Also, my sieve shoots up to 160 degrees within 1/2 a cycle and sits at 160.  Is it not suppose to do that?  The room is 91ish and the water coming in is 91 is.

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1 minute ago, Neotuck said:

40 Celsius = 104 Fahrenheit

and?

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Copy.  

9 hours ago, ArunPrasath said:

This game is still in early release. I'm guesstimating there's at least 1 more year's worth of work remaining in just updates and 3 months+ work left in optimizing this game and another 3 months for removing all possible bugs and crashes.

the 40 Degree cap is to prevent the heat generation from going out of hand in the base. Every action you do creates more heat. So in the long run, its unsustainable.

Just bear with them for the time being. I for one am extremely frustrated with the insulated pipes not working in build 261452 (along with a great many other things...)

There are plenty of bugs to fix ... and every new update is introducing a plethora of new ones. So just grind your teeth and plough along. We all signed up for this when we saw the early release; yet bought the game.

the cap is for really hot water going into the sieve correct?  I am putting water in at 90 degrees and it is putting it to the cap.  Is that a glitch, or is it a constant.  Does the water sieve take 50 degree polluted water and make it 104?  I feel like you didn't read my post.  Also, how the hell do you know there is a cap at 104?  Where did you get that information?  Klei has not told me that, at least not where I can find. 

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12 minutes ago, smithdl said:

Also, how the hell do you know there is a cap at 104?  Where did you get that information?  Klei has not told me that, at least not where I can find. 

this has just been common knowledge for veteran players of ONI.  Most of us have accepted it as is until a update says otherwise

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So, how would I know if something is a glitch if I don't even know basic information about how a building works without coming onto the forums and spending 2 days just to learn that a building puts out liquid at 104?  WTF?  I don't like that Klei.  And, I still don't even know if this is a glitch!  Is it suppose to increase temp?  By how much?

So here is where I am at, I have rumors that the cap is 104 from "veteran" players.  I have no idea how much temp the sieve adds to water as it goes through.  I have no idea how fast the sieve is suppose to gain temperature.  

So, I come here and I don't know if I found a glitch, if that's how the devs intended it, or if I am doing something wrong with my set up.

The Devs are basically relegating dealing with the problems of the game to "veteran" players to explain what the game is doing.  And then, to go and submit a glitch, I comment on a page in the forums.  Do I get a ticket number or a response?  

Klei, hire a PR guy please, and for the love of God, explain your game so those of us who don't want to spend 100 hours on forums and in edit mode can figure out what is going on.  Like, basic communication.  Come on!

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48 minutes ago, smithdl said:

So, how would I know if something is a glitch if I don't even know basic information about how a building works without coming onto the forums and spending 2 days just to learn that a building puts out liquid at 104?

Its easier to recognize this is happening if you use Celsius, as the game was designed with Celsius in mind.  Then it's an even 40 C, which more strongly implies a pattern.  I recommend playing set to Celsius, as there are more nice round numbers in Celsius that are easier to recognize. (and I'm saying this as an American.  I'm not entirely used to Celsius either.)  In the future, you should also probably post temperatures either in Celsius or make it clear that you are working in Fahrenheit by saying something like 104 F rather than just 104 degrees.

You should remember that this game is in early access.  They only recently added the encyclopedia.  I'm sure they will add the fact that the water sieve had a constant temperature output in the future. 

The carbon skimmer, electrolyzer, and fertilizer synthesizer also have constant output temperatures, just off the top of my head.

48 minutes ago, smithdl said:

So, I come here and I don't know if I found a glitch, if that's how the devs intended it, or if I am doing something wrong with my set up.

That is largely what the forums are for.  If you think you found a glitch, you can bring it here and we can talk about it.  Eventually, I'm sure all of the quirky things buildings do will be explained in their descriptions.

48 minutes ago, smithdl said:

Klei, hire a PR guy please, and for the love of God, explain your ******* game so those of us who don't want to spend 100 hours on forums and in edit mode can figure out what the **** is going on.  Like, basic communication.  Come on!

Unnecessary profanity aside,  I do a google search on "Water Sieve Temperature Oxygen Not Included"  and the first page is full of discussion about this.  I also do a search on "40 C oxygen not included" and "104 F oxygen not included" and find the same things.  I can't see it taking 100 hours.

48 minutes ago, smithdl said:

And then, to go and submit a glitch, I comment on a page in the forums.  Do I get a ticket number or a response?

If you think it's a bug, you can post on the Bug Tracker forums and one of the developers will look at it, but usually it's better to post here or in General Discussions first so that the "veteran players" can tell you if it is intended behavior or not and explain what's going on if it isn't a bug. 

Oxygen not included has its own physical rules and laws.  I personally have a lot of fun figuring them out.

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I don't want peoples opinions.  I want to know how it is suppose to work.  Again, I think it is bad form to put in systems without explaining them and then force that person to come to the forums to figure out if something is working correctly.  You don't work for Klei, You have no idea if they set that temp intentionally.  Your guessing.  Will it increase to 104F if I pipe 38 F degree water to it?  I want to play survival and make a base work, so I pipe water from my sieve to my plants to fertilize and it makes them to hot and they die.  So how do I know if I need to cool the polluted water down, cause the sieve adds X amount of temp, or do I need to realize that the sieve is constant and cool after the sieve.  What are my options?  That is not fun for me, that is frustrating.  

I deleted my swear words in an edit.  

Regardless, I am a customer who bought the game and I find myself frustrated time and time again trying to figure out how the game works because Klei doesn't explain their game.  I don't know what is a glitch and what isn't.  And yes, I have spent 100's of hours watching videos and reading forums trying to figure out basic concepts that would be a lot easier if they would simply explain how they work.  They can put the exact temp drop of water running through a hydrotuner, but they cant say that the sieve has a set output?  That's stupid.

You may be having fun and enjoying this mystery of the game, but I don't.  And, I am welcome to my opinion as are you.  I am simply relaying my experience so far playing.  If they find no value in that, fine.  Maybe they will.

 

 

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Spoiler

image.thumb.png.5e6114d7216b6c757f0e009526fe311f.pngimage.png.748db14f25b532c9d6ff107f10e6f63c.png 313.15 Kelvin= 40 Celsius, as for how you know, when you change your input and the output doesn't change you go "Herm"  instead of throwing fits you record your findings and ask.

 

ONI Code

As for not explaining a game that IS NOT FINISHED um...... its not done, its still being worked on, new things are being added all the time, there is no guarantee klei will not choose to change this from a fixed value in the future, for now though, it is a fixed value

On a side note this game is ridiculously hard until you know exactly what to do....

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Dude, if you need to go into the code of a game to understand how something works, you should be throwing the fit with me.  Quit being a fanboy.  They should explain their game.  This isn't about being in development.  This about thinking through execution of how you disseminate information to your client base so they can use/help create the product.  I have every right to be frustrated that I didn't know how a sieve works because the game does not explain it.  If you disagree, fine.  We can agree to disagree. I think they are doing a poor job of communicating how the game works and I have a right to my opinion.

 

And no, that it is in development is NOT a viable excuse.  They have a client base, they are producing updates and trying to increase that client base RIGHT NOW.  I am trying to explain to them, they game is very frustrating when you don't understand what is happening.  Making clients come to forums to ask "veterans" is going to lose you clients and create negative reviews.  They NEED to explain the game for the average, or below average(me) gamer.  They are limiting there own income and potential for the game.  

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1) I had to go into the code because you outright refuse to accept anything less than code
2) I use trial and error and record my results to understand how anything works and when that fails me I turn to others
3)Are they giving out refunds?  Are they issuing micro-transactions? Then they aren't losing money even if they lose players, but they are already limiting their income potential(thank you klei, one reason I LOVE this game)

4)separate opinion from fact, play on fact and the game gets easier, play on opinion and you are literally making problems for yourself that didn't even have to exist but I digress, for me the real genius of this game is that it doesn't require you to use that device to clean the water.

5) With the inclusion of the database and in the interest of Transparency the known set values for all devices should be in the game.  EX Database should at the least list Joules added to coolant in a refinery when working each metal, Seives fixed outputs, petrol refineries 80C output, etc etc

6) Lastly, I never overtly disagreed with you, I was trying to be helpful while using the game as much as possible but god bless it at some point if you aren't going to be the least bit reasonable and give consideration for anything at all then bye.  Just bye.

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Although you never overtly disagreed with me, I felt like you were minimizing my frustration at not understanding the game because there were ways out there to find the answer.  That wasn't my point.  My point is that I feel like it should be in the game and that if I have to leave the game to find the information I need to play it, Klei is not doing a good job of explaining it.  That is my opinion.  

I appreciate the fact that the majority of responses here are not to defend the lack of information in the game, but to help me with my frustration.  Yes, you helping me to find what I needed to know does not mean you are agreeing or disagreeing, and I am sorry for incorrectly taking your advice as disagreeing with me.  Thank you for your help.

My fanboy comment was disrespectful, I am sorry.  I didn't think that comment through.

Bottom line, I don't know you and you have tried to help me, and I don't like the idea that my frustration turned into something that frustrated another person.  That wasn't my goal.  Thank you for your help.  I am not really sure why this game frustrates me so much.  I think it is because I love it, but I want to create something with it and I seem to fail.  The information gap is too wide for me and the trial and error needed to get there is simply more time than I have to play.   Probably time for me to move on.  

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if you wish to move on that is your choice, for me the game has progressed from frustration to anxiety.  Now I know how things work and what to do but there is so much tooo do that I just hit the point of massive open potential and then quit....

lemme reiterate, I quit the bases not the game.  I've played the first cycles to death and back. Antigravity System.sav 

check out this save file. 

there is also a hidden Creative mode available "Debug mode"

@smithdl I understand the desire to "do it myself" coupled with the lack of foreknowledge, or worse, having the wrong foreknowledge (because oni doesn't use real physics) results in some serious headache :D

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The sieve and several other buildings output things at preset temperatures without regard to the temperate of the inputs, this is annoying and should be changed in the future as it throws weird monkey wrenches into heat management (sometimes allowing players to destroy heat, sometimes creating heat unexpectedly).

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52 minutes ago, ImpalerWrG said:

The sieve and several other buildings output things at preset temperatures without regard to the temperate of the inputs, this is annoying and should be changed in the future as it throws weird monkey wrenches into heat management (sometimes allowing players to destroy heat, sometimes creating heat unexpectedly).

These "monkey wrenches" are what keeps the game playable. All Wheezeworts and Nullifiers in the map are nothing compared to heat produced by a single Steam Geyser. Machines resetting temperature to set values are the main intended means of getting rid of that heat and they're balanced so they don't make it too easy for the player.

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6 hours ago, Kasuha said:

These "monkey wrenches" are what keeps the game playable. All Wheezeworts and Nullifiers in the map are nothing compared to heat produced by a single Steam Geyser. Machines resetting temperature to set values are the main intended means of getting rid of that heat and they're balanced so they don't make it too easy for the player.

That's ridiculous, first off many of these buildings will end up producing heat rather then eliminating it.  Most new players will initially do things like try to send the polluted water from the slime biome through a sieve which creates heat rather then destroys it.   You have to know to do weird things like using the hot water output of a smelter to run showers to destroy heat.  None of that is obvious to any player and are as illogical as the drip exploit.

No designer worth their salt would be balancing a game around the player using behavior that is both hidden and illogical.  And I see no evidence that the game actually IS being balanced around them.  I make fine bases without destroying heat with these buildings.  Further more  balance during beta testing and development is always in flux.  For example we can't even begin to balance showers until Dupes actually NEED them so the quantity of water that will go through them can be established.

These fixed temperature outputs are just coding loose-ends, if they actually intended them to be used for cooling then they would be temperature subtractions that always cool a specific amount and they would document them for the player.

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I think what happens to new players is that they see polluted water in the green biome and they see it as a good water source for the base.  The tech tree (getting a sieve first) and the environment basically begs the player to go filter the water and use it when the starting area runs out.  Problem is it floods your base with 104 F/40 C water and kills your base.  

Why would a new player think to avoid the polluted water and not use the sieve until he/she can get to a wort to cool it?  And then to have a sieve heat up the water isn't logical, so it just doesn't make sense.  The game doesn't say it increases the heat, so your left wondering if its a glitch.

And for the record, I backpack bow hunt into the wilderness for elk.  I cant take that much water, so I filter it all from what springs, or if I'm in bad shape, puddles I can find.  I cant for the life of me see why a filter would increase the heat of the water, it doesn't make sense.

And think of a water filter on a faucet or fridge, filters on a swimming pool, whatever.  They all use the pressure of a water pump.  They don't need power.  And then you have in the same tech tree an air purifier, and it just magically sucks in air through a filter and cleans it.  I'm sorry, but that is ass backwards.  lol

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11 hours ago, smithdl said:

Copy.  

the cap is for really hot water going into the sieve correct?  I am putting water in at 90 degrees and it is putting it to the cap.  Is that a glitch, or is it a constant.  Does the water sieve take 50 degree polluted water and make it 104?  I feel like you didn't read my post.  Also, how the hell do you know there is a cap at 104?  Where did you get that information?  Klei has not told me that, at least not where I can find. 

The cap is not for the input temp, but for the output temp. Even if you input 110 degree Celsius pol water, you'll get 40 Celsius degree pure water output from the sieve.

Even if you input 0 degree Celsius polluted water, you'll get 40 degree Celsius pure water at the putput. I just checked in my base. I did get a glitch where it was outputting 6.3 degree Celsius water, but i destroyed that sieve and rebuilt it... now working properly and outputting 40 degree Celsius  again.

Lol.... I didn't realize you were telling in Fahrenheit. So you are right. Even inputting cooler water gives output at constant 104 degree Fahrenheit.

I'm sure you'll realize that for purifying diseased polluted water, you'll have to heat it to 70+ degree Celsius. You'll find the 40 degree Celsius cap very useful then.

7 hours ago, smithdl said:

I don't want peoples opinions.  I want to know how it is suppose to work.  Again, I think it is bad form to put in systems without explaining them and then force that person to come to the forums to figure out if something is working correctly.  You don't work for Klei, You have no idea if they set that temp intentionally.  Your guessing.  Will it increase to 104F if I pipe 38 F degree water to it?  I want to play survival and make a base work, so I pipe water from my sieve to my plants to fertilize and it makes them to hot and they die.  So how do I know if I need to cool the polluted water down, cause the sieve adds X amount of temp, or do I need to realize that the sieve is constant and cool after the sieve.  What are my options?  That is not fun for me, that is frustrating.  

I deleted my swear words in an edit.  

Regardless, I am a customer who bought the game and I find myself frustrated time and time again trying to figure out how the game works because Klei doesn't explain their game.  I don't know what is a glitch and what isn't.  And yes, I have spent 100's of hours watching videos and reading forums trying to figure out basic concepts that would be a lot easier if they would simply explain how they work.  They can put the exact temp drop of water running through a hydrotuner, but they cant say that the sieve has a set output?  That's stupid.

You may be having fun and enjoying this mystery of the game, but I don't.  And, I am welcome to my opinion as are you.  I am simply relaying my experience so far playing.  If they find no value in that, fine.  Maybe they will.

 

 

Have you seen the game subnautica? I saw the game 4 years ago when it was first introduced as early release. Full of bugs and a lot of other problems. See the completed game now. Its seriously good.

Same with ONI. You paid for the game. I get it. So did so many other people out there including me.

You want a complete product with all explanations? Wait 1-1.5 years till the game comes out of early release. You'll really like all the features then.

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