Soulwind Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 While I think the new geysers are a great idea and I even like the idea of the random lifecycle and output amounts, it needs some serious balancing. I feel that right now they have moved the bar too low. When the effective output (between lifecycle and actual quantity) is so low that it's not worth the time, resources, and effort to build the infrastructure needed to use the geyser; then that's a problem. I also think the critters need to be rebalanced. Eggs are too easy and plentiful and resource manipulation via critters (ie co2 consumption) is way way too low. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88480-geysers-fumaroles-and-volcanoes/page/3/#findComment-1014551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanro50 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Soulwind said: While I think the new geysers are a great idea and I even like the idea of the random lifecycle and output amounts, it needs some serious balancing. I feel that right now they have moved the bar too low. When the effective output (between lifecycle and actual quantity) is so low that it's not worth the time, resources, and effort to build the infrastructure needed to use the geyser; then that's a problem. I also think the critters need to be rebalanced. Eggs are too easy and plentiful and resource manipulation via critters (ie co2 consumption) is way way too low. They nerf one thing and compensate by making something else slightly more powerful. Farming crops are now harder, but eggs are a easier form of food now Getting loads of critters is now easier, but they're individually less useful Natural gas geysers are now more unreliable, but hatches(and therefor coal generators) are now more useful Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88480-geysers-fumaroles-and-volcanoes/page/3/#findComment-1014575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulwind Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 critters aren't just individually less useful. They are radically less useful. When it takes 100 post-ranching slicksters to consume the same quantity of co2 as 1 pre-ranching slickster, that's a balance issue. Yes, I can eventually breed several hundred of them, but even my top of the line, near state of the art, machine starts to choke on that many. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88480-geysers-fumaroles-and-volcanoes/page/3/#findComment-1014577 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Soulwind said: critters aren't just individually less useful. They are radically less useful. When it takes 100 post-ranching slicksters to consume the same quantity of co2 as 1 pre-ranching slickster, that's a balance issue. Yes, I can eventually breed several hundred of them, but even my top of the line, near state of the art, machine starts to choke on that many. I agree, with geysers making water less available I don't want to rely on skimmers Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88480-geysers-fumaroles-and-volcanoes/page/3/#findComment-1014578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanro50 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, Neotuck said: I agree, with geysers making water less available I don't want to rely on skimmers Run the polluted water thru a filter and back into your carbon skimmer Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88480-geysers-fumaroles-and-volcanoes/page/3/#findComment-1014581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Just now, Hanro50 said: Run the polluted water thru a filter and back into your carbon skimmer oh I do that, was just looking for less dupe work with delivering sand and picking up polluted dirt Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88480-geysers-fumaroles-and-volcanoes/page/3/#findComment-1014582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanro50 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Just now, Neotuck said: oh I do that, was just looking for less dupe work with delivering sand and picking up polluted dirt Well there is automation Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88480-geysers-fumaroles-and-volcanoes/page/3/#findComment-1014583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Hanro50 said: Well there is automation True but I'm already using a lot of power for the skimmers and water sieve, don't want to add a sweeper too. Reliable power is hard to come by this update Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88480-geysers-fumaroles-and-volcanoes/page/3/#findComment-1014587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanro50 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Just now, Neotuck said: True but I'm already using a lot of power for the skimmers and water sieve, don't want to add a sweeper too. Reliable power is hard to come by this update true I do hope they add other forms of resource generation apart form geysers Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88480-geysers-fumaroles-and-volcanoes/page/3/#findComment-1014588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlineous Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Neotuck said: True but I'm already using a lot of power for the skimmers and water sieve, don't want to add a sweeper too. Reliable power is hard to come by this update Actually I find it still quite easy, (even in my game without using any animals) as long as you have a volcano in your map. Drop some oil on the hot materials coming out and you have massive amounts of natural gas. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88480-geysers-fumaroles-and-volcanoes/page/3/#findComment-1014630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 I had to use a skimmer for my base, which was killing two birds with one stone as my colony was drowning in water, two Fumaroles and one Water Geyser all capped with 50 tiles of water plus my storage tank (96 Tiles) also full. Also yeah I had an Iron volcano, it literally dropped nothing per cycle but was active for a long time, but with the immense heat and mass per tile, I think I could power a well tuned steam turbine for well over 100 cycles. By well tuned I mean allowing only just enough water to be turned to steam to keep it running constantly but not enough to have wastage or intense cooling of the metal. I even had an obsidian radiator inside it to cool the molten iron down for use! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88480-geysers-fumaroles-and-volcanoes/page/3/#findComment-1014865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodingKitteh Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 The new geysers are brutal but I played this upgrade the longest since Agricultural Upgrade. I also got a REAL UNLUCKY asteroid. My geysers are 3x Cool Steam Fumaroles (wait for it...), 3x Chlorine Fumaroles... , 2x Natural Gas Fumaroles, 1x polluted oxygen geyser, 2x oil resevoirs I cannot use (lack of water) I am constantly running out of polluted water which is bad because my fertilizer plants die out killing my natural gas power (My main source of power). I'm stockpiling water and using it only for the electrolyzer (for oxygen). My 3x water geysers add up to merely 2.279 kg/s calculated statistical average, that's just slightly 2x electrolyzers... My 2x natural gas geysers add up to 95.3 g/s which can only support 1.5x generators at most... I have completely no idea about what to do with 3x chlorine geysers. I hate them. 2x Oil Resevoirs, useless because I don't have water to pump into it. Polluted Oxygen geyser averages 55.3 g/s, which is completely useless since you have to use energy to convert to oxygen. I tried having dupes just breathe the polluted oxygen and SLIMELUNG took over. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88480-geysers-fumaroles-and-volcanoes/page/3/#findComment-1014908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 1 hour ago, CodingKitteh said: I have completely no idea about what to do with 3x chlorine geysers. I hate them. That right there is super unlucky. I also have put a lot of time into this update, and I love it, but I think I would hate it if I got more than 0 chlorine geysers, It is literally the most useless resource in my opinion. a little is good, the rest of pointless. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88480-geysers-fumaroles-and-volcanoes/page/3/#findComment-1014936 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 1 hour ago, CodingKitteh said: My 3x water geysers add up to merely 2.279 kg/s calculated statistical average, that's just slightly 2x electrolyzers... My 2x natural gas geysers add up to 95.3 g/s which can only support 1.5x generators at most... I have completely no idea about what to do with 3x chlorine geysers. I hate them. 2x Oil Resevoirs, useless because I don't have water to pump into it. Polluted Oxygen geyser averages 55.3 g/s, which is completely useless since you have to use energy to convert to oxygen. I tried having dupes just breathe the polluted oxygen and SLIMELUNG took over. Me is happy, because i don't played the new preview. I would be frustrated to discover such facts and i don't want to hate ONI. ^^ Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88480-geysers-fumaroles-and-volcanoes/page/3/#findComment-1014939 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 18 minutes ago, Oozinator said: Me is happy, because i don't played the new preview. I would be frustrated to discover such facts and i don't want to hate ONI. ^^ it isnt going to be a preview for much longer, and remember they removed our massive amount of geysers to introduce ruins, so I do not know if they will keep or revert the changes etc. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88480-geysers-fumaroles-and-volcanoes/page/3/#findComment-1014944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 12 minutes ago, BlueLance said: it isnt going to be a preview for much longer, so I do not know if they will keep or revert the changes etc. Preview is so different most times, from the final update.. I can wait for that. In jobs update, i had first time a feeling, that Klei has a strange "fix" behaviour. I am a bit confused about that. I liked ONI so much, hope they could restore my feeling. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88480-geysers-fumaroles-and-volcanoes/page/3/#findComment-1014948 Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlineous Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 4 hours ago, CodingKitteh said: The new geysers are brutal but I played this upgrade the longest since Agricultural Upgrade. I also got a REAL UNLUCKY asteroid. My geysers are 3x Cool Steam Fumaroles (wait for it...), 3x Chlorine Fumaroles... , 2x Natural Gas Fumaroles, 1x polluted oxygen geyser, 2x oil resevoirs I cannot use (lack of water) I am constantly running out of polluted water which is bad because my fertilizer plants die out killing my natural gas power (My main source of power). I'm stockpiling water and using it only for the electrolyzer (for oxygen). My 3x water geysers add up to merely 2.279 kg/s calculated statistical average, that's just slightly 2x electrolyzers... My 2x natural gas geysers add up to 95.3 g/s which can only support 1.5x generators at most... I have completely no idea about what to do with 3x chlorine geysers. I hate them. 2x Oil Resevoirs, useless because I don't have water to pump into it. Polluted Oxygen geyser averages 55.3 g/s, which is completely useless since you have to use energy to convert to oxygen. I tried having dupes just breathe the polluted oxygen and SLIMELUNG took over. That's indeed a really unlucky map. Do you have access to magma? If you would keep playing this map my advice would be pumping up some oil, and heating it to magma to get natural gas. Tap the magma as low as possible in your map, otherwise you would accidentally trigger the cooling bug. 1 kg of water -> 3.333 kg of crude oil --> 3.333 kg of natural gas --> 3.479 kg of polluted water. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88480-geysers-fumaroles-and-volcanoes/page/3/#findComment-1015108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodingKitteh Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 2 hours ago, onlineous said: That's indeed a really unlucky map. Do you have access to magma? If you would keep playing this map my advice would be pumping up some oil, and heating it to magma to get natural gas. Tap the magma as low as possible in your map, otherwise you would accidentally trigger the cooling bug. 1 kg of water -> 3.333 kg of crude oil --> 3.333 kg of natural gas --> 3.479 kg of polluted water. I found my last game changing geyser (cheated a little), a 21 kg/s polluted water geyser, giving me 4 kg/s of polluted water after calculations. However, my metals are limited in resource (no big volcano) for 100% sure. Therefore steam power, is pretty much a non-renewable resource for me. Natural Gas is the way to go. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88480-geysers-fumaroles-and-volcanoes/page/3/#findComment-1015172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlineous Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 2 hours ago, CodingKitteh said: I found my last game changing geyser (cheated a little), a 21 kg/s polluted water geyser, giving me 4 kg/s of polluted water after calculations. However, my metals are limited in resource (no big volcano) for 100% sure. Therefore steam power, is pretty much a non-renewable resource for me. Natural Gas is the way to go. True, and with the amount of magma in the average map, you could make a lot of natural gas from oil. I would suggest preheating to make sure you don't waste any magma heat. With efficient preheating I wouldn't be surprised if you could last thousands of cycles on the heat of the magma in the map. Although natural gas from oil is the best solution (you actually gain a bit of water in the process) pumping, using a petroleum generator is not too bad of an option either. Yes, it will cost quite a lot of water to pump up oil, but oil well and oil refinery produce some natural gas as well, a petroleum generator generates 1.250 kilograms of polluted water every second and 500 grams of carbon dioxide which gives you a bit of crude oil, if you use slicksters. I don't know if slicksters produce eggs as well (I don't use them) but if they do, you'll get some free food as well. Of course natural gas generators produce CO2 as well. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88480-geysers-fumaroles-and-volcanoes/page/3/#findComment-1015253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhailRaptor Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 18 hours ago, BlueLance said: That right there is super unlucky. I also have put a lot of time into this update, and I love it, but I think I would hate it if I got more than 0 chlorine geysers, It is literally the most useless resource in my opinion. a little is good, the rest of pointless. You should always want 1, but only ever 1. Without it, you will struggle to grow Balm Lilies. Especially if you use a door series instead of a liquid lock on the access point, since they tend to delete gas. So without the Geyser, you'd eventually drop below the Lily's pressure threshold and be permanently Stifled. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88480-geysers-fumaroles-and-volcanoes/page/3/#findComment-1015367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
trukogre Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 15 minutes ago, PhailRaptor said: You should always want 1, but only ever 1. Without it, you will struggle to grow Balm Lilies. Especially if you use a door series instead of a liquid lock on the access point, since they tend to delete gas. So without the Geyser, you'd eventually drop below the Lily's pressure threshold and be permanently Stifled. If you can clear every pocket of slimelung before your lilies are stifled, you'd be fine, no? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88480-geysers-fumaroles-and-volcanoes/page/3/#findComment-1015371 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhailRaptor Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, trukogre said: If you can clear every pocket of slimelung before your lilies are stifled, you'd be fine, no? Theoretically yes, but if you make use of either Morbs or Pufts in your processes, they both produce new Slimelung. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88480-geysers-fumaroles-and-volcanoes/page/3/#findComment-1015373 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 36 minutes ago, PhailRaptor said: You should always want 1, but only ever 1. Without it, you will struggle to grow Balm Lilies. Especially if you use a door series instead of a liquid lock on the access point, since they tend to delete gas. So without the Geyser, you'd eventually drop below the Lily's pressure threshold and be permanently Stifled. I use an actual air lock design so I don't delete gasses at all through means such as triple/quadruple doors, and I do not use waterlocks either. But I also don't have a use for Balm Lillies, unless they have a use other than boosting immunity that I wasnt aware of. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/88480-geysers-fumaroles-and-volcanoes/page/3/#findComment-1015375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.
Please be aware that the content of this thread may be outdated and no longer applicable.