The Not-Quite Self-Powered and (Hopefully) 100% Kosher Air Conditioner

[Roboson]

5 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Now pipe radiators is really a relic with very few practical applications. These days just boxing in wheezeworts in metal tiles and slapping diamond tiles all over seems to be the cure all.

Oh no! I'm antiquated! 

I will play around with some temp shift plates and such to see if I can work out something with them to plunge that temperature further down. 

[The Arcanian]

5 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Try it. You end up with every other package not going to the regulator

The valve and bridge solves the problem with confused regulators. It's a much more elegant solution.

Sorry, I don't have debug set up. But maybe I will try to experiment with it later in a legit base.
In my last base I used bridges extensively to control priority flow for both gases and liquids, the only time a packet would not go through an inline bridge was when it could not (if another packet already existed in the pipe piece). Unless the Occupational Upgrade changed something that should still be the case.

1 minute ago, Yoma_Nosme said:

@The Arcanian

I'm not sure i can follow you but if i understand you right you refer to saturnus picture,

if so there is a valve before the pipe bridge which only gets "preferred" when the TR is off, so the only "action the bridge sees" is when the TR is of as well.

or am i messing things up?

I was trying to describe how if you build a bridge, with its input in the middle of a pipe network, to another pipe network the packets will always prefer to jump from the first pipe network to the second along the bridge unless there is no room for them. Only when the second network it full will they continue along the first.
(By network, I mean connected pipes between an input an output.)

[Yoma_Nosme]

1 minute ago, Roboson said:

I will play around with some temp shift plates and such to see if I can work out something with them to plunge that temperature further down. 

tempshift plates won't help plunging the temperature i think, they just spread it out more evenly but please try, i'm no expert

they could help if you made the floor between hydrogen and oxygen room from a conducting material, and plaster them up with tempshifts, but only as long as the hydrogen room is colder. as soon as it gets warm it's no good

[The Flying Fox]

13 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Yes. Demonstrate it in practise.

But you did copy/paste in the nullifier to avoid the pesky ruin tiles

Actually, I teleported it because I forgot that I could just copy/paste one in. 

 

Still, hydrogen box around an anti-entropy machine with a heat-pipe leaving it to cool something?  Totally doable.  As a fun project, I had one cooling oil for a metal refinery.  It sorta worked okay, then I stopped using it and forgot about.  Came back later to frozen oil.  Oops!    Suppose I got lucky with this one as it only came with it's foundation under it.

[Saturnus]

5 minutes ago, The Arcanian said:

Sorry, I don't have debug set up. But maybe I will try to experiment with it later in a legit base.

Remember, regulators are not bridges. You're really talking about really basic stuff here when we're discussing much better and sophisticated variants of the same.

The reason you want to use the valve is two fold, to make the bypass work at all times. And to enable you to limit flow in the bypass. When you limit flow to 1/5th the pipe radiator is more efficient 

[SkunkMaster]

11 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Yes. Demonstrate it in practise.

This might be a bad example, since i was somewhat lucky with the ruins.

I cut 4 pictures together here, to show the temperature difference the different areas. 

Thermo overlay

Electricity

And Logic used

 

Small note, the coal generators barely run, even thought they power alot of unnecessary stuff. to be precise 1 airpump and 2 air filters, and exo suit docks. 

It does thou not power it's water pump.

 

 

The problem with these air pyramids is, that if you don't use up all the energy, then the hydrogen will slowly start to build up and at some point flow into the oxygen flow.
With this setup it's not really a problem, since the transported hydrogen will get deleted.

 

I kind of don't like this setup. It requires ALOT of materials and work to setup. 

But it does put out more oxygen then i know what to do with.

 

I don't play this colony anymore, not at the moment atleast, because of frames in the 10-12 region. 

 

[Saturnus]

4 minutes ago, SkunkMaster said:

This might be a bad example, since i was somewhat lucky with the ruins.

I'll say. That unique reasonably usable ruin I haven't seen on the last 5 maps I've played. I only seem to get the ones with ladders and doors and other crap.

To quote myself from another thread

Quote

Personally I think the best part of my design is the fact that there's no exotic materials used at all like yours. It's easy to bang something together in debug mode, use tungsten everywhere, plaster diamond shift plates all over, use high pressure vents, etc etc*, and completely forget what the design is intended to do. For a O2 module the goal should be something you can build after having found the first water geyser, and want to move away from using algae for oxygen, so a player likely would not have had time yet to go find large amounts of exotic materials.

*etc etc includes nullifiers and wheezeworts. You can't rely on having access to that early game.

[Roboson]

Is there a particular reason why your hydrogen hood is shaped like that? @SkunkMaster

[Yoma_Nosme]

@The Arcanian

I think you mean right, but figured it out wrong. It really works flawlessly the way saturnus showed it, Imagine the Regulator, valve and bridge having priorities. valve is lower than reg, so the bridge behind the valve is lower than reg as well because it gets feed by the valve, only seeing action if the regulator is off

[SkunkMaster]

1 minute ago, Saturnus said:

I'll say. That unique reasonably usable ruin I haven't seen on the last 5 maps I've played. I only seem to get the ones with ladders and doors and other crap.

Still not a problem really. Just encase it all with metal tiles and put abyssalite around. With 20kg hydrogen the heat gets transferred so fast that the few tiles more or less around wont affect it. Not noticeably atleast.

[PhailRaptor]

1 minute ago, Roboson said:

Is there a particular reason why your hydrogen hood is shaped like that? @SkunkMaster

Probably from before they revised the part of the code that handles the gas column.  You might still notice that in large spaces, the "lines" between different gases are slanted a bit.  It used to be much, much worse.  So the ideal design for concentrating the gas rise were all skewed to the left, and gas fall to the right.

Again, it does still happen, but it's been reduced.

[Roboson]

1 minute ago, PhailRaptor said:

Probably from before they revised the part of the code that handles the gas column.  You might still notice that in large spaces, the "lines" between different gases are slanted a bit.  It used to be much, much worse.  So the ideal design for concentrating the gas rise were all skewed to the left, and gas fall to the right.

Again, it does still happen, but it's been reduced.

Huh, I hadn't even noticed it was reduced since I last played. But I never built those in my old colonies. 

[Yoma_Nosme]

24 minutes ago, SkunkMaster said:

I don't play this colony anymore, not at the moment atleast, because of frames in the 10-12 region.

you should encase your base (the part you need) and suck out the air from the rest, this will help you with fps, because your pc needs less resources to calculate gas movement

[Saturnus]

2 minutes ago, Roboson said:

Huh, I hadn't even noticed it was reduced since I last played. But I never built those in my old colonies. 

It's currently something around a 15 degree angle more or less. It used to be closer to 30 degrees.

[Kabrute]

 

1 minute ago, Yoma_Nosme said:

you should encase your base (the part you need) and suck out the air from the rest, this will help you with fps, because your pc needs less resources to calculate gas movement

testing shows this saved at most 2 fps over the entire asteroid....

[SkunkMaster]

2 minutes ago, Roboson said:

Is there a particular reason why your hydrogen hood is shaped like that? @SkunkMaster

Yes, let me show you the air-overlay:

 

Ignore the "wild" hydrogen bottom right, it stems from when i expanded the pyramid, which was about 2 cycles before i stopped playing this colony.

 

Basically forming the pyramid like this will create a complete straight line at the electrolyzers. 

I've made a couple of these, and i can tell you it's very sensitive what goes the form of the hood. Just 1 tile to wide or narrow, and the hydrogen/oxygen line becomes skewered. 

 

Just now, PhailRaptor said:

Probably from before they revised the part of the code that handles the gas column.  You might still notice that in large spaces, the "lines" between different gases are slanted a bit.  It used to be much, much worse.  So the ideal design for concentrating the gas rise were all skewed to the left, and gas fall to the right.

Again, it does still happen, but it's been reduced.

With big setups, like this, it's very noticeable. And the bigger the setup gets, the more this effect shows. 

[Yoma_Nosme]

1 minute ago, Kabrute said:

testing shows this saved at most 2 fps over the entire asteroid....

Then disregard my post please...daim, only 2fps? i wasn't thinking it will be like warp 9 but at least like warp 5

[Saturnus]

4 minutes ago, Yoma_Nosme said:

Then disregard my post please...daim, only 2fps? i wasn't thinking it will be like warp 9 but at least like warp 5

The only way to significantly improve performance is reduce the number of multiple choice paths for the dupes. Make sure there's one and only one way for the dupes to get from any random point to another. Each time there's a split the full alternate path is calculated and compared with the others before making a decision.

[Yoma_Nosme]

Now thats good to know, tbh i wondered why my bases dont lag but this would make a lot of sense since i try to keep ways short and direct with not many detour routes ( i did it for stress purpous so they have to look at the same beautiful paintings 50 times in any direction every time)

[The Arcanian]

1 minute ago, Saturnus said:

Remember, regulators are not bridges. You're really talking about really basic stuff here when we're discussing much better and sophisticated variants of the same.

You're misunderstanding me, I was never talking about the regulator. I was talking about what You and @Yoma_Nosme were talking about with regard to making sure that the hydrogen went to the regulator first, but could continue to circle if it was shut off. @Yoma_Nosme said that you would only get half the packets flowing to the regulator with his suggestion, then you suggested the trick with the valve. I was suggesting having a bridge from the gas loop to the regulator so that gas prefers to go to the regulator, but would continue in the loop if the regulator is off. Same effect, different means. The valve seemed like a superfluous use of resources, but taking a second look I see it could be used to make the flow rate through the valve the complement of the output from the regulator.

3 minutes ago, Yoma_Nosme said:

@The Arcanian

I think you mean right, but figured it out wrong. It really works flawlessly the way saturnus showed it, Imagine the Regulator, valve and bridge having priorities. valve is lower than reg, so the bridge behind the valve is lower than reg as well because it gets feed by the valve, only seeing action if the regulator is off

You basically reiterated what I was trying to get at but could not understand my explanation... The regulator and valve are too inputs in sequence, packets will always try to use the input before traveling further along the pipes. But on the other hand, pipes will receive packets from another pipe before taking any from an output. My suggestion was just that you could have two bridges in sequence with the first one to the regulator and the second one continuing the loop. Like I said above, same effect, different means.

[avc15]

2 hours ago, QuQuasar said:

The only way to get something like this to work is to do away with the enclosed design and allow the oxygen to freely escape into your base. That eliminates the oxygen pump’s energy cost, which you can then put towards the thermo regulator. Unfortunately, it also means the device’s position in your base becomes extremely important: you can’t put it anywhere the way you can with an enclosed design.

There must be a way to regulate the temperature of air escaping an open air system. Hmmm, a project...

[Kabrute]

by using doors on thermals with background hydrogen loops XD

[avc15]

1 minute ago, Kabrute said:

by using doors on thermals with background hydrogen loops XD

what conducts energy better, a hydrogen loop built from granite or a petroleum loop built from tungsten?

[Yoma_Nosme]

conducts energy better? do u mean cools better?

the petroleum even with granite i'd say because of the higher mass. Btw ignious rock is the new rockstar *pun intended

[avc15]

conducts energy* conducts heat, yeah, cools. But all higher mass does is add heat capacity, there are a few other pieces to that puzzle. I think it will require some tinkering.

There might not be any reason at all to use wolframite. Doesn't the material with the lowest conductivity determine the heat transfer rate? If so, we're limited by the material IN the pipes.