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Pushing the limits of oxygen generation


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Hi everyone! I'm new to the forums.

I've been playing ONI for quite some time. In the absence of any official goals or missions in the game I've been setting my own. Currently I'm aiming for a base with 100 duplicants with <20% stress. It's very difficult. My record is 58 duplicants, though my most recent game saw it all go wrong at 52. The limiting factor is always oxygen generation, or more specifically water. I'm really going to need to up my game if I'm to make it to 100.

I've taken some time to do some maths regarding it all, though it doesn't seem right to me.

  • 1 duplicant consumes 100 g/s of oxygen
  • 1 electrolyzer produces 888 g/s of oxygen

Therefore you need one electrolyser for every 8-9 duplicants.

Bearing in mind that water has always been the limiting factor in every game I've gotten far in, I looked up how many electrolysers I can realistically expect to run from a steam geyser. The wiki claims that steam geysers produce an average (accounting for active and inactive times) of 167 g/s of steam/water. Is this correct? This isn't enough to run even one electrolyser infinitely.

Is this maths correct? I feel like I'm missing something, since I know we all use electrolysers. Or is the trick just to build up a large pool of water and see how far you can get before it runs out?

I'm trying to figure out how many duplicants I can reasonably expect to maintain before I have to resort to purifying polluted water and creating a hydrogen bubbler.

Thanks :)



 

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One steam geyser = 725kg/180s water + 30kg/180s steam = 4.028 kg/s water + 0.167 kg/s steam = 4.194kg/s water&steam

Two steam geyser-->74.5kg/s O2 and some hydrogen

If you want to hire more than 74 dups, you have to think about other ways to produce oxygen.

Algae, water sieve, convert ph2o to po2, etc.

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One of the most overlooked sources of polluted water in the game is the petroleum generator. As a power source is not much good but it's main purpose is not producing power but the vast amounts of polluted water it generates. 1250g/s is a lot of additional water.

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Ah that makes sense. I knew the 167 g/s average didn't seem anywhere near high enough.

As I previously said, my record is 58 dupes, though of course I'm also using water for other things so it makes sense that it stopped being sustainable about then. I try to cut it down as much as possible, though a certain amount of it is unavoidable.

I don't really like using a water sieve since sand isn't truly sustainable (I know we have the rock granulator now but eventually your minerals are going to run out too). I've only had semi-success using magma to turn polluted water into steam. I may just need to come to terms with the idea that my base can't go on forever and there'll be a certain amount of racing before resources run out.

The hyrogen bubbler idea seems amazing to me, since I have zero problems producing infinite polluted oxygen, but I've not yet done one successfully, I haven't been able to get it cold enough yet.

I guess I could just fill my base with polluted oxygen and just get really good at curing my dupes of diseases, but that feels like cheating :p

 

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10 minutes ago, CherryHavoc said:

I guess I could just fill my base with polluted oxygen and just get really good at curing my dupes of diseases, but that feels like cheating :p

Eliminate (or control) all sources of slime lung on the entire map and you won't have to bother about cleaning the oxygen at all.

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47 minutes ago, CherryHavoc said:

I don't really like using a water sieve since sand isn't truly sustainable (I know we have the rock granulator now but eventually your minerals are going to run out too). I've only had semi-success using magma to turn polluted water into steam. I may just need to come to terms with the idea that my base can't go on forever and there'll be a certain amount of racing before resources run out.

Sand is 100% sustainable as far as I know. Dirt/polluted dirt turns into sand if you heat it up and I think fertilizer too. You can also just boil polluted water into steam. You can use the trick @R9MX4 mentioned or use an aquatuner. I like the aquatuner method better because in the end you want to cool down the water again so it is a dual purpose build.

There a bunch of sources of water/polluted water. As @Saturnus mentioned the petroleum generator is one of them, but also the lavatories. Have a look at this as well, suddenly CO2 turns into power and clean water:

47 minutes ago, CherryHavoc said:

The hyrogen bubbler idea seems amazing to me, since I have zero problems producing infinite polluted oxygen, but I've not yet done one successfully, I haven't been able to get it cold enough yet.

The nice thing about it is that it scales indefinitely, since you can set it up in a way so it cools itself. You only need to destroy the heat from the pumping in the end. Depending on the setup it needs quite a bunch of cycles to prime. I recommend you seal it off completely with abyssalite and only let abyssalite pipes go in and out.

4 minutes ago, CherryHavoc said:

I don't really get the stuff they added with the automation update (which is kinda poor of me because part of my job is programming :P)

How does the system work with a tepidiser? Does the tepidiser not need to be submerged?

Yes, you submerge it in polluted water which you want to boil. The buffer/filter gate trick avoids the max temp shutoff. You can also use the gas trick mentioned in several threads around here.

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4 minutes ago, CherryHavoc said:

I don't really get the stuff they added with the automation update (which is kinda poor of me because part of my job is programming :P)

How does the system work with a tepidiser? Does the tepidiser not need to be submerged?

When the tepidizer is turned on, it works about 5 seconds, then check whether it is submerged. It looks like a exploit.

 

8 minutes ago, clickrush said:

Sand is 100% sustainable

But boiling ph2o and using water to generate o2 is much easier than heating fertilizer up to sand, I guess.

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Yeah I'am just saying that it is. Some people like doing wonky stuff.

Aside from the fact that it is almost impossible to run out of it in the frist place. 1 sieve runs 5 electrolyzers and uses 1kg of sand. Even if you play 2h each day you only use up 300t of sand between two updates, 900t on tripple speed, and your base is over 500cycles old.

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1 hour ago, clickrush said:

Yeah I'am just saying that it is. Some people like doing wonky stuff.

Aside from the fact that it is almost impossible to run out of it in the frist place. 1 sieve runs 5 electrolyzers and uses 1kg of sand. Even if you play 2h each day you only use up 300t of sand between two updates, 900t on tripple speed, and your base is over 500cycles old.

There's at least 400 tonnes of sand on any random map. That's enough to clean water for 5 electrolysers for over 666 cycles. That's 44 dupes' worth of oxygen. Add to that the gazillion tonnes you can make by crushing unusable minerals like sedimentary rock etc and I don't think many will ever have to worry about running out.

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I'm up to 80 dupes now (see video). I've reached geyser capacity and I'm filtering polluted water (from lavatories + petroleum generator) for the rest so far. Next steps would be a morb farm and/or off gassing polluted water and/or large mealwood rot farms. I'm crushing all waste materials into sand to scale up the filtering of polluted water.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qpYqtxaYhw

I think you can reach 100 if the lag doesn't get you first.

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The mw rot farms produce reliable PO2 at fixed rates, but the require intense cpu time to maintain and heaven forbid you sync your garden to all one fall, have the fall, the rot, and morning revely all happen at the same time crashed my machine.  Harvesting early resulted in a huge lag spike that once but yeah, have to watch out for this.

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I just ran some experiments and found 4 morbs can probably support one dupe if you pull the polluted air out and keep a near vacuum in the morb room. 1 morb generates roughly 15kg polluted oxygen / cycle. Then send that polluted germ infested air to a cooling room (0 degrees should do it) and then off to your base. Probably better than rotting food or polluted water off gassing. Not sure of the CPU load of having 100s of morbs would be though.

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2 hours ago, GrindThisGame said:

I just ran some experiments and found 4 morbs can probably support one dupe if you pull the polluted air out and keep a near vacuum in the morb room. 1 morb generates roughly 15kg polluted oxygen / cycle. Then send that polluted germ infested air to a cooling room (0 degrees should do it) and then off to your base. Probably better than rotting food or polluted water off gassing. Not sure of the CPU load of having 100s of morbs would be though.

Have you submerged your morbs? or is that unsubmerged?

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MORBS MORBS MORE MORBS!!!

Assuming a duplicant uses an outhouse once every day (more if 1 if they have a small bladder), one duplicant can effectively produce 3 morbs every 15 days.  Each of those morbs, produces ~15 g/s of polluted o2 (according to the wiki).  If you condense (liquify) the polluted oxygen, you get all of the polluted oxygen converted to o2 with no loss (as far as I can tell).  That means that you have an acceleration on oxygen generation.  To put it in perspective, if you have 15 duplicants, their outhouse usage can create enough morbs to support a 16th within 3 cycles. The lag could be bad after a while, but anything that gives you a unit of g/s per second (g/(s^2)) is extremely powerful, especially with no material cost (other than lost polluted water from not having lavatories.

If you keep morbs in a skim of water (<1000g), they are tricked in to constantly producing polluted O2, which increases production.  If you don't submerge them, they will only oxygenate one small area.  If you suberge them, they can pressurize your whole base, as long as you do not mind popped eardrums.

My thinking is that if you were to force 15 duplicants to only use outhouses, you can take an extra dupe every 3 cycles and be able to support the growth (as far as oxygen is concerned).  The rest of the duplicants can use lavatories to produce extra polluted water if desired.  

You can use simple automation to lock off an outhouse for the amount of time it takes for a morb to spawn, then open it up.  This should be easy enough if you can create a counter that can count to 15.

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To be realistic there are only two viable ways to increase the dupe capacity of a base 1 purification of polluted water i.e. Aquatuners crude boiler,exploits,sieve option 2 generation of oxygen through morbs i.e. Locking 40 to 50 morbs in a pneumatic door and feeding the air to 1 tile spaced pufts for distillation to algae.I personally don't think hydrogen bubblers are viable but if you want to show me a design for one that dosent use a power plant of energy for a singular dupe I would appreciate it.

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image.thumb.png.196e98028c397b926478f2c7fb025721.png

Need to tweak the cooler but that setup will supply 10 duplicant indefinitely with O2 for only 1000w Power input, most of that on pumps, if I scaled the pumps back thats only 800W power for 10 dupes for ever

By the numbers the bottle neck here is actually the cooler limiting the output to 9.4 duplicants (enough for me to over pressure my base :) )  but the plants are just barely outperforming that cooler.  20x40 garden, 2 rows per dupe or 80 plants per dupe.  This garden causes me no lag.  If plants are all grown when you load send in the dupes to harvest the whole garden once.  I do it at a 9 then set all harvested plants to 1 (in chunks)

The Merry Friends.sav

If this seed had more weezies I could potentially enlarge the cooler or build another however thats every weezy in my world in that machine :) its a tad over kill though in hydrogen

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Here's how to supply 100 dupes with oxygen the easy way.

First, let's assume that with 100 dupes you have at least 5% with divers lungs and 5% with small bladder. Both are desirable traits. One directly reduces the needed oxygen you need to make, and the other increases the amount of polluted water the dupe generates for no extra cost. We also assume you have taken no mouth breathers.

That means you need 9875g/s O2. To get that using electrolysers you need 11120.5g/s H20.

The dupes generate an excess of 1172.5g/s PW in lavatories. It doesn't matter for this sake if you use a closed loop water sieve system or if you use a bulk distiller. I'd recommend the latter as it doesn't use any sand and can be made extremely efficient. Especially when combined with a heat based crude oil to petrol converter.

That means that after counting the water geyser output and PW from NGG on the gas geyser output you're still 1185g/s H20 short.

However. The dupes also generate 2000g/s CO2 and the NGGs generate 458.333g/s CO2. If that is converted into crude oil using slicksters and the crude oil is then heat refined into petroleum you can use that in a petroleum generator. We take into account here that the 491.666g/s CO2 the petrol gen gives off is converted back into oil as well. Then the petrol gen gives off 1229.166g/s PW.

Which means we have achieved and exceeded the requirements by 44.166g/s H20. Granted. Not much of a safety margin but increase the number of dupes with either divers lungs or small bladder, and that will increase.

To those concerned about power use. Using tepidizer heat refining/distilling of crude oil/PW the total power consumption including cooling, and using no wheezeworts anywhere, should be less than about 13-14KW. And the power generated by hydrogen, natural gas, and petroleum generators is 16375W. So it also produces a fair amount of excess power. Not that it matters too much as 100 dupes will need something to do so I reckon you'll have a fair amount of them running on hamster wheels.

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Pls stop trying to sell the meal wood as an oxygen supply it's not practical it never will be practical and if you make it work you won't even able to play the game because you're 9000 meal wood have blown up you're computer.

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