What do you consider "unreasonable" exploits?

[asveron]

1. Very Exploitative, I won't do it.
2. Exploitative but I'll consider doing it.
3. Oh that's tricky.
4. Meh, It's reasonable within ONI logic.
5. Nah it's totally a mechanic.

List of Candidates: and my opinions

5-Liquid / Gas sorting: Taking advantage of the fact that each gas/liquid takes up a tile to make certain contraptions.

4-Diagonal access:  Storing things diagonally or building diagonally since it doesn't allow air though.

4-Door Gas Destruction: Destroying gas with doors, etc.

4-Perpetual Motion Water: Causing perpetual motion in water by "teleporting/offsetting" water to another tile due to pressure. 

4-Animal Behavior Optimization: Trapping animals in certain ways to make them perform more actions.

3-Generating polluted oxygen for infinite air: Stockpiling contaminated dirt, etc.

3-Chlorine heat confusion: Using chlorine to confuse machines to overheat water.

3-Water / Gas Infinite storage: Compressing water or gas infinitely denser.

3-Indestructible to pressure: Doors and certain tiles are completely indestructible to pressure.

2-Heat Neutralizing via Machinery/Farm: The output of a machine/farm ignores the original amount of heat.

2-Liquid Tepidizer Heat Misdirection: Overheating water by absorbing the excess heat of tepidizer that goes into air.

1-Diagonal entry via doors with no bottom tile: The door will never be opened but dupes can crawl into the room.

1-Duplicant Infinite Energy: Various ways to make duplicant not require sleep. (most of them are fixed)

1-Crying duplicant to harvest water.

1-Drip Cooling / Water Temperature confusion: Using a small amount of cold to cool a larger amount of heat in various forms.

[alficles]

16 hours ago, asveron said:

Crying duplicant to harvest water.

 

This is not a bug, it is a feature. We put Amile in that room with all the heaviwatt wire for a reason. Our base is powered by pure sadness!

[Neotix]

There is no such thing like exploit in single player game. You don't compete with anyone and you cheat no one. There is no rule that force you to play like somebody want you to play.

Better name is unexpected feature and it's up to you if you want to use them or not.

Finding those features and thinking how to utilize them is also fun.

[asveron]

8 hours ago, alficles said:

This is not a bug, it is a feature. We put Amile in that room with all the heaviwatt wire for a reason. Our base is powered by pure sadness!

lol, i don't think its a "bug" either. Just a "feature" I refuse to use. *see bellow. 

5 hours ago, Neotix said:

There is no such thing like exploit in single player game. You don't compete with anyone and you cheat no one. There is no rule that force you to play like somebody want you to play.

Better name is unexpected feature and it's up to you if you want to use them or not.

Finding those features and thinking how to utilize them is also fun.

It's all about perspective as you said. Just like you can call something that is an exploit to me an "unexpected feature", the same goes vice versa. 

For me, a unexpected feature I don't like is an exploit. Your response is a bit akin to someone asking "What are your least favorite type of chairs?" and then you respond "There's no such thing as a chair, since you can sit on everything!".

Perhaps you like all of the "features" and choose to use all of them. But maybe there are ones you chose not to use. Which one are they? Why don't you like using it? Which ones are on the sidelines?

*edit

I also want to point out that many want to avoid drip/cooling temperature confusion, but it's extremely hard to avoid it. Sometimes having a wheezewort placed in a certain way causes it to happen. It's one of the examples that many simply wishes that is patched out. Rather than a "feature" you can choose to use, it's often feels like a "bug" that prevents you from playing the game. (It's as if mario can just walk through many of the enemies randomly, and you have to manually restart the game to simulate dying).

[alficles]

For me, an "exploit" is something that significantly changes the gameplay in an unintended way. For example, the tepidizer is obviously and clearly designed to heat water to a merely tepid temperature. So I expect silly tepidizer tricks to be patched out soon.

Temp confusion is also bad, but in even worse ways. It's subtle and easy to do accidentally. In fact, it's actually kinda tricky to avoid. And it makes certain setups much, much more effective than they ought to be. I've got some designs that I've empirically determined are effective, but that I suspect are so only because temperature in large bodies of water isn't being modeled properly. But I can't ever be quite sure. And not being sure how the game will behave is bad for gameplay.

Various ways to get infinite resources bother me much less. In fact, I'd generally approve of reasonable ways to make most resources eventually infinite. There are ways to dispose of almost all resources, so making them all renewable in some fashion doesn't bother me.

Gamey stuff like diagonal moving and building also doesn't bother me too much, as long as it doesn't create an inordinate advantage by doing exceedingly tedious things. Using diagonal digging to create vacuums is bordering on "too tedious", given the advantage you get. I don't like it when the game makes "doing annoying things" the best way to proceed, because then the game is encouraging un-fun gameplay.

Taking advantage of animal behaviour is a gamey thing that isn't super-tedious, though. It doesn't bother me.

Heat-eating machines don't really bother me too much, but I would much, much prefer that they be labeled properly! If your machine has outputs, specify the temps of those outputs. I shouldn't need to go to a wiki to try to figure out what the equipment in the game does. Of course, if there were a single globally consistent, thermodynamics-obeying behaviour, it wouldn't really need much explaining.

[Coolthulhu]

Fixed temperature "exploits" aren't exploits at all because literally everyone uses them. There is no way not to do it.

[clickrush]

2 hours ago, Coolthulhu said:

Fixed temperature "exploits" aren't exploits at all because literally everyone uses them. There is no way not to do it.

Also they make sense in a way. Almost all of them are modelling an chemical reaction and you can just assume that the energy is used up in that reaction because it is endothermic.

Liquid Tepidizer Heat Misdirection

I feel like this one is very fun. It is closely related to the chlorine one, which is used with space heaters.

Generating polluted oxygen for infinite air

This one is straight up not an exploit in any way.

I have the most fun with building machineries/systems that convert materials in a possibly extreme way, instead of using device X that brings me from A to B. In other words I rather build stuff that requires many simple parts instead of just one pre-designed solution.

An example for oxygen production would be the electrolyzer. It is a pre-defined/pre-designed solution. Generating polluted oxygen and turning it into clean oxygen is a system made from many small parts. It is much more fun to do the latter because you can do it your way and scale it your way. Same for refining oil.

The bottom line is you can always choose to do things in one way or the other and you do not influence other people's choices with that. I would be dissapointed if the devs would think and act otherwise.

[hegemontree]

5-Liquid / Gas sorting: Taking advantage of the fact that each gas/liquid takes up a tile to make certain contraptions.

IMO 'the fact that each gas/liquid takes up a tile' is the cornerstone of ONI physics.  More than anything else this makes ONI physics unique from real physics.  Any consequences that can be usefully manipulated are engineering in this new physical reality.

[geniusthemaster]

On 12/11/2017 at 5:25 AM, asveron said:

1. Very Exploitative, I won't do it.
2. Exploitative but I'll consider doing it.
3. Oh that's tricky.
4. Meh, It's reasonable within ONI logic.
5. Nah it's totally a mechanic.

List of Candidates: and my opinions

5-Liquid / Gas sorting: Taking advantage of the fact that each gas/liquid takes up a tile to make certain contraptions. 1

4-Diagonal access:  Storing things diagonally or building diagonally since it doesn't allow air though.5

4-Door Gas Destruction: Destroying gas with doors, etc.4

4-Perpetual Motion Water: Causing perpetual motion in water by "teleporting/offsetting" water to another tile due to pressure. 1

4-Animal Behavior Optimization: Trapping animals in certain ways to make them perform more actions.5

3-Generating polluted oxygen for infinite air: Stockpiling contaminated dirt, etc.1

3-Chlorine heat confusion: Using chlorine to confuse machines to overheat water.5

3-Water / Gas Infinite storage: Compressing water or gas infinitely denser.1

3-Indestructible to pressure: Doors and certain tiles are completely indestructible to pressure.5

2-Heat Neutralizing via Machinery/Farm: The output of a machine/farm ignores the original amount of heat.1

2-Liquid Tepidizer Heat Misdirection: Overheating water by absorbing the excess heat of tepidizer that goes into air.1

1-Diagonal entry via doors with no bottom tile: The door will never be opened but dupes can crawl into the room.1

1-Duplicant Infinite Energy: Various ways to make duplicant not require sleep. (most of them are fixed)1

1-Crying duplicant to harvest water.1

1-Drip Cooling / Water Temperature confusion: Using a small amount of cold to cool a larger amount of heat in various forms.5

 

[asveron]

47 minutes ago, hegemontree said:

5-Liquid / Gas sorting: Taking advantage of the fact that each gas/liquid takes up a tile to make certain contraptions.

IMO 'the fact that each gas/liquid takes up a tile' is the cornerstone of ONI physics.  More than anything else this makes ONI physics unique from real physics.  Any consequences that can be usefully manipulated are engineering in this new physical reality.

I totally agree. I wasn't going to put this on the list at all until I realized how many people find it exploitative. Decided to just add it anyways and give it a 5.

Core mechanics like building you base so that carbon can flow down etc are all based on it. 

35 minutes ago, geniusthemaster said:

 

interesting, I didn't know so many people had vastly different opinions. Seems like almost everyone in the thread has their unique opinions, and they all seem as spread out as dice rolls.

If everyone does something like this, i might be able to tally up the votes and see what the overall opinions are.

[Oozinator]

On 11.12.2017 at 1:25 PM, asveron said:

1. Very Exploitative, I won't do it.
2. Exploitative but I'll consider doing it.
3. Oh that's tricky.
4. Meh, It's reasonable within ONI logic.
5. Nah it's totally a mechanic.

List of Candidates: and my opinions

3-Liquid / Gas sorting: Taking advantage of the fact that each gas/liquid takes up a tile to make certain contraptions.

5-Diagonal access:  Storing things diagonally or building diagonally since it doesn't allow air though.

2-Door Gas Destruction: Destroying gas with doors, etc.

4-Perpetual Motion Water: Causing perpetual motion in water by "teleporting/offsetting" water to another tile due to pressure. 

5-Animal Behavior Optimization: Trapping animals in certain ways to make them perform more actions.

5-Generating polluted oxygen for infinite air: Stockpiling contaminated dirt, etc.

3-Chlorine heat confusion: Using chlorine to confuse machines to overheat water.

4-Water / Gas Infinite storage: Compressing water or gas infinitely denser.

4-Indestructible to pressure: Doors and certain tiles are completely indestructible to pressure.

3-Heat Neutralizing via Machinery/Farm: The output of a machine/farm ignores the original amount of heat.

1-Liquid Tepidizer Heat Misdirection: Overheating water by absorbing the excess heat of tepidizer that goes into air.

3-Diagonal entry via doors with no bottom tile: The door will never be opened but dupes can crawl into the room.

4-Duplicant Infinite Energy: Various ways to make duplicant not require sleep. (most of them are fixed)

5-Crying duplicant to harvest water.

4-Drip Cooling / Water Temperature confusion: Using a small amount of cold to cool a larger amount of heat in various forms.

[TehPlayer14]

Game breaking infinite things etc impossible machines etc

[asveron]

12 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

Diagonal entry via doors with no bottom tile: https://oxygennotincluded.gamepedia.com/File:17343060_1892917157650261_5393191164823720920_n.jpg

[Oozinator]

Just now, asveron said:

Diagonal entry via doors with no bottom tile: https://oxygennotincluded.gamepedia.com/File:17343060_1892917157650261_5393191164823720920_n.jpg

lol ok, that's new for me ^^

[Kabrute]

I found the line of code about the water cooling bug.... its a hard coded feature to check the column which of course uses the highest y value regardless of mass, not a bug but the way the game is coded will always treat liquids like this until they switch to cell by cell checks which would drastically increase the calculations needed to play the game, thus will likely never occur but that's just my opinion based on a couple hours of digging

[asveron]

11 minutes ago, Kabrute said:

I found the line of code about the water bug.... its a hard coded feature to check the column which of course uses the highest y value regardless of mass, not a bug but the way the game is coded will always treat liquids like this until they switch to cell by cell checks which would drastically increase the calculations needed to play the game, thus will likely never occur but that's just my opinion based on a couple hours of digging

That's great since I'm building a megaproject to do massive liquid chlorine cooling of multiple rooms using the hydrogen eater thingy. Needed the bug to move the liquid chlorine back up.