Quoth143 Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 With the official release of the Forge as well as the animation for it what really intrigued me was seeing Charlie at the end. What is her plan? She is clearly gaining power from the portal being open though it's hard to tell if it's completely her idea since she seems to still be somewhat controlled by the shadows/her grue side rather than being a balanced whole. THEY probably whisper in her ear, manipulating her to act on THEIR will which is possible. She may have ended up as collateral but THEY saw potential in her as THEIR pawn. I began to discuss this on Tumblr when someone brought up the fact that this could very well be a sort of chess game. Charlie is the Queen on the black side of the chess board, the Constant. The Survivors are her pawns and the shadows are working through her (subconsciously speaking) to begin their advance into different worlds. The first kingdom to fall is Pugna's. He represents the Red Monarch and by being defeated that is equal to checkmate. Now if the Forge is highly successful, this could mean we may end up seeing other Monarchs. EDIT: The same user I was talking to on Tumblr brought up another interesting idea. The sub-realms of the Constant are represented with the game's gems. Shadow Queen's realm: purple gem Pugna's realm: red gem Blue gem would be an ice realm and most likely where you'd find Deerclops. The green gem's element is labour or industry so maybe a city? The orange gem is the opposite of the green gem so laziness, hedonism? But what would you find there? Finally the yellow gem obviously the realm of light and the end goal. Take that out and the shadows rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minespatch Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 She seemed very confidant and aware of her actions at the end. Which really feels different from the quiet tone of "What Lies Beyond". Though I'm also fine with the theory of Charlie being manipulated as well. 5 hours ago, Quoth143 said: The green gem's element is labour or industry so maybe a city? A friend of mine suggested that green fits Hamlet. Though I have to wonder what "the village of Tweed" is in the "tweed shirt" descriptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoth143 Posted November 10, 2017 Author Share Posted November 10, 2017 22 minutes ago, minespatch said: She seemed very confidant and aware of her actions at the end. Which really feels different from the quiet tone of "What Lies Beyond". Though I'm also fine with the theory of Charlie being manipulated as well. A friend of mine suggested that green fits Hamlet. Though I have to wonder what "the village of Tweed" is in the "tweed shirt" descriptions. The reason I think she's being manipulated is because of Winona's line for the Shadow Atrium: Shadow Atrium- "She used to have such a big heart." (this can be found in the wiki) Which means that Charlie is acting very out of character to someone who would know her the best that person being her sister. Remember how angry she sounded in Maxwell's speech files during the Cyclum Puzzles? For all the time she spent in the shadows as the night monster she must have felt lonely, angry, sad, etc. They have most likely taken advantage of her negative feelings when They saw potential in her. Essentially They'd use empathy to get Charlie to be a much more willing pawn in Their plans. "It's not your fault dear, it's his fault." "You are the true star of the show. The Queen of the stage." My theory is They probed Charlie's mind and saw the creativity she had, the passion she had and They wanted to take advantage of that to further Their goals which would be to reconnect the six realms if there are six and rule them all. But tying her down to the throne wasn't going to work so instead They butter her up and whisper sweet nothings in her ear building up her confidence and getting her to do Their bidding and making her think it's what she wants. Through her as the Queen, They gain more power. And with every little bit of Their goal accomplished Charlie loses more and more of her humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EthanTheMime Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 5 hours ago, Quoth143 said: I began to discuss this on Tumblr when someone brought up the fact that this could very well be a sort of chess game. Charlie is the Queen on the black side of the chess board, the Constant. The Survivors are her pawns and the shadows are working through her (subconsciously speaking) to begin their advance into different worlds. The first kingdom to fall is Pugna's. He represents the Red Monarch and by being defeated that is equal to checkmate. Now if the Forge is highly successful, this could mean we may end up seeing other Monarchs. I was talking about this in the beta, how each community event would basically be Their march into new territory, taking out different realms and having the now intrepid survivors do the dirty work. But applying it to a massive Chessboard metaphor is... Interesting... And also entirely in the realm of possibility when you consider Klei's ceaseless Chess symbolism that has grown to be almost iconic in the game. I wonder what level of self-awareness the survivors are on; will they continue to wipe out realm after realm with no hesitation, or if there will be some sort of turning point? The survivors have proven themselves to be very powerful, even without Their influence, but will they really get their happy ending? Or will they just continue to incessantly fight for Charlie until there is nothing left? What about when they surpass usefulness? Because as it stands, the survivors function as Pawns, but when They have absolute power what will they have left to give? 5 hours ago, Quoth143 said: EDIT: The same user I was talking to on Tumblr brought up another interesting idea. The sub-realms of the Constant are represented with the game's gems. Shadow Queen's realm: purple gem Pugna's realm: red gem Blue gem would be an ice realm and most likely where you'd find Deerclops. The green gem's element is labour or industry so maybe a city? The orange gem is the opposite of the green gem so laziness, hedonism? But what would you find there? Finally the yellow gem obviously the realm of light and the end goal. Take that out and the shadows rule. This metaphor feels sort of out of place, and doesn't really have any substance to back it up, especially when there's only one event out so far. I mean I could be entirely wrong, but I think we'll have to wait and see. For now though, I have my doubts, largely because of how it would be awkward to translate some of these concepts into their own events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minespatch Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 9 hours ago, EthanTheMime said: how each community event would basically be Their march into new territory, taking out different realms and having the now intrepid survivors do the dirty work. I feel evil looking into this with interest. Then again, exploring more worlds always excites me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toast1070 Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 The end of the video could relate back the the Metheus aspect. In Greek mythology, Prometheus stole fire from Zeus and gave it to mankind. At the end of the trailer, Charlie absorbs energy/fire from the portal. It is white, much like the flame emitting from the torch depicted in the ancient mural from the Metheus puzzle (I think it was white, if my memory serves me correctly). Is Charlie who the Ancient Fuelweaver was referring to as Metheus? Perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoth143 Posted November 10, 2017 Author Share Posted November 10, 2017 58 minutes ago, Toast1070 said: The end of the video could relate back the the Metheus aspect. In Greek mythology, Prometheus stole fire from Zeus and gave it to mankind. At the end of the trailer, Charlie absorbs energy/fire from the portal. It is white, much like the flame emitting from the torch depicted in the ancient mural from the Metheus puzzle (I think it was white, if my memory serves me correctly). Is Charlie who the Ancient Fuelweaver was referring to as Metheus? Perhaps. Unfortunately I don't think she's Metheus. The Fuel Weaver refers to her as a shade and Charlie's goal was to open the portal while Fuel Weaver's was to keep it closed. If the theory of the six realms is true, Metheus could be another monarch in the world of light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeklo Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Toast1070 said: Is Charlie who the Ancient Fuelweaver was referring to as Metheus? Perhaps. My personal believe and running theory is that Metheus is the ancient queen, and the Fuelweaver is the ancient king. Both not in their physical bodies, but still retaining their minds. The King's consciousness being inside a "demon" skeleton, and the Queen's consciousness being inside Charlie's body. The Shadow Creatures—once the ancients—follow both the Fuleweaver, as they summon them to aid him AGAINST the will of Them, and Charlie. Since we see Charlie having some dominion over the shadows and the throne. Of course the one issue with this theory would be the Ancient Queen's motive. What reason would they have to "join the dark side"—granted we still aren't fully sure what Charlie is even trying to accomplish—though it seems fair to assume something sinister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatShadowJK Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 On 10/11/2017 at 12:40 PM, Quoth143 said: EDIT: The same user I was talking to on Tumblr brought up another interesting idea. The sub-realms of the Constant are represented with the game's gems. Shadow Queen's realm: purple gem Pugna's realm: red gem Blue gem would be an ice realm and most likely where you'd find Deerclops. The green gem's element is labour or industry so maybe a city? The orange gem is the opposite of the green gem so laziness, hedonism? But what would you find there? Finally the yellow gem obviously the realm of light and the end goal. Take that out and the shadows rule. 2 Iridescent Gem- Space, and Time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoth143 Posted November 16, 2017 Author Share Posted November 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, DatShadowJK said: Iridescent Gem- Space, and Time? I don't know. Until we see it given more abilities like the other gems I can't really say what its element would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatShadowJK Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 9 minutes ago, Quoth143 said: I don't know. Until we see it given more abilities like the other gems I can't really say what its element would be. Well it does come from the moon stave.. and the moon stave gives you cold.. So maybe.. BLUE AND IRIDESCENT ARE TWINS??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoth143 Posted November 16, 2017 Author Share Posted November 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, DatShadowJK said: Well it does come from the moon stave.. and the moon stave gives you cold.. So maybe.. BLUE AND IRIDESCENT ARE TWINS??? I don't think it's so much that otherwise the blue gem would be able to do the same. The most I can say is wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatShadowJK Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 7 minutes ago, Quoth143 said: I don't think it's so much that otherwise the blue gem would be able to do the same. The most I can say is wait and see. Its been nearly/has been a year since we discovered the gem.. Sometimes we just need to make up lore ourselves I guess.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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