Cooling water tank via Hydrogen Help

[Deyfenn]

So over the last few days I've read all I could find regarding cooling a pool of water via Hydrogen, and honestly I just can't get the same results everyone else is. I'm using the Oil update (236679) and working in debug mode at this point due to the difficulty I've had.

For a setup, I have a water pool that is 33longx4high and it is filled with gas pipes (Granite). I have a hydrogen room running at about 7kg (room temp is about 31c).  There are 3 Thermo Regulators (@ about 45C) running and 4 Wheezwarts in there also (room is 7x9). The gas goes in@30c (500g/s) and comes out of the other side of the 3 regulators @ -12 and off to the pipes in the pool.  There is basically no affect on the pool temp.  In fact the water from the pool is from a geyser, and by simply letting it drop some 60 tiles down to the pool it cools to ~46C.  All rooms are insulated and all pipes not in the pool are made from Abbysallite.

At that pressure in hydrogen, and in a small space, I would expect the Wheezwarts to be having a great effect on the room temp?

[Risu]

Need a medium to transfer heat between the gas and the liquid, like statues and thermal plates.
 

[clickrush]

Can you tell us what your expected results are and what you are getting? Does it cool at all or not? Do you expect more cooling?

Also regarding the setup, are you pumping the same gas that you submerged the regulators with? I would suggest you don't do that, but just cool the regulators with a fixed amount of hydrogen and worts.

One random optimization that comes to mind is cutting down the regulators to just 1 and let the hydrogen pump through it until you get the temp you want before you pump through your water.

Another random thought is to not cool the water directly. Some equipment destroy heat by absorbing it's energy. For example the electrolyzer will convert water into H and O2 at fixed temp of 70C which means you lose 25C heat.

If you want to build up water and use it for something else you can also run it through an aquatuner. Like the regulator it will radiate the heat that it moves away so you can boil polluted water with it and kill germs.

[Deyfenn]

It started as a goal of simply trying to cool a pool of water down and replicate other peoples concepts.  Once perfected I want to be able to cool a pool of polluted water down to 20C and use it in a hydroponic tile for mealwood.  I've pumped in hot polluted water and it heated up the tiles which affects the yield. 

I've seen a bunch of people with the same setup, and they say their hydrogen gets very cold.  I can't muster anything less then -15.  Maybe the Wheezwarts don't work properly in debug mode if you alt-q then into place? They aren't showing up, but they are their if you click on the space.  I don't think that's it because briefly one did seem to cool the room temp (using the temp overlay to check).

The water coming from the hydrogen room is about -15 (ish) but it doesn't impact the pool of water at all.  I attached a screen cap (excuse the design, its a dogs breakfast whiles testing)

I even tried taking the hydrogen generated by the electrolyzers, cooling that down with Thermo Regulators (takes it from 50c to -5c), and then pumping that into the main hydrogen room, also, no luck.

Another oddity, I keep getting Carbon dioxide building up in the main hydrogen room even though its completely sealed.  I thought that using granite for the pipes in the pool would provide a good transfer of heat...

Its supposed to go down to -18c tomorrow night here, maybe I should bring my PC outside...that might do it

 

[clickrush]

Just to be safe I would generate a dupe and put in the wort seeds. I'am pretty sure they don't work like that. The regulators themselves will not cool this room. All they do is move heat from the pipes into their area. Think of them as accelerators. For example here, if you'd isolate them. They would cool the room below but heat up their own room. If you want to maximize cooling then I'd suggest you isolate them from the rest, put the worts next to them and use a thermo switch to shut them off before they reach 95C which is the max heat for the worts. And then just cycle the hydrogen through them until they reach the temp you want.

[Le0n1des]

1 hour ago, Deyfenn said:

Maybe the Wheezwarts don't work properly in debug mode if you alt-q then into place?

Upon teleporting - the Wheezwarts leave the gas entry point behind... So you are basically teleporting gas from the chamber they were originally planted at until it is vacuum. This behaviour resets upon loading.

[NanoD]

When cooling a liquid as it is now, cooling only the top layer is of interest, because  everything under will get same temp as top layer. So if you only have 100g of water on the top it will be easy to cool down. 

Basically why if you drop cool water on the top it will cool down everything under it.

 

[Deyfenn]

Well we have some success.  Dug up some Wheezwarts, alt-q's the seeds into the hydrogen cooling chamber and had a dupe plant them. Room went from ~40c to ~11c @~7kg.  The hydrogen entering the cooling loop is about -25 now.  I also reworked the room so there is one Wheezwart per Thermo Regulator.  The temp in the room has equalized around 11C.

All good right?  Nope.  After 20 cycles, the water temp is simly not cooling down.

 

[Coolthulhu]

Look at the temperature of the gas in the pipes - it is almost the same as the water surrounding it. It does cool the water down, it's just that each tile of pipe contains only 1kg of hydrogen, but each tile of water contains 1000kg of water. And water has more specific heat than hydrogen.

You'd be better off using polluted water as coolant. It has ~30 times the heat capacity of hydrogen per tile of pipe.

[BlueLance]

Also if you are using the polluted water you do not need to cool it down to feed your hydroponic tiles, Use abysallite pipes , the heat is destroyed IIRC because the plants absorb the water but not the heat.

[Deyfenn]

I find pumping in hot polluted water to hydroponic tiles, the tiles themselves get hotter, which makes the air around the plants hotter and affects the yeild (trying to get max yeild).

This is the setup I was using as reference -> https://steamcommunity.com/app/457140/discussions/0/1318835718947559285/

I can't get anywhere near the cold temps they did.  Also, even when I stop the hydrogen from circulating, the room doesn't drop below 11C.  Really feels like something is buggy

I liked the idea of the Thermo Regulator (vs liquid pipes) because of its apparent function of destroying heat, not just transferring it.

Maybe the devs. need to create high-pressure gas pipes.

(ps, thanks to everyone for the ideas and tips so far!)

[resonancia]

Hi.

Granite has low thermal conductivity, try making the pipes that runs through the water from igneous rock or obsidian. That would give you a better heat exchange between the hydrogen and the water.

[Deyfenn]

Hey Resonancia...from what I found:

Granite

A dense composite of Igneous Rock. Decor bonus: +0.20. Overheat Temperature: +1500%.

3.39

gneous Rock

A composite of solidified volcanic rock. Overheat Temperature: +1500%.

2

Obsidian

A brittle composite of volcanic Glass. Overheat Temperature: +1500%.

2

...meaning for gas pipes, granite is as good as it gets.

[PhailRaptor]

4 hours ago, Deyfenn said:

I find pumping in hot polluted water to hydroponic tiles, the tiles themselves get hotter, which makes the air around the plants hotter and affects the yeild (trying to get max yeild).

This is the setup I was using as reference -> https://steamcommunity.com/app/457140/discussions/0/1318835718947559285/

I can't get anywhere near the cold temps they did.  Also, even when I stop the hydrogen from circulating, the room doesn't drop below 11C.  Really feels like something is buggy

I liked the idea of the Thermo Regulator (vs liquid pipes) because of its apparent function of destroying heat, not just transferring it.

Maybe the devs. need to create high-pressure gas pipes.

(ps, thanks to everyone for the ideas and tips so far!)

I can only assume this is a leftover Agriculture Update base, because plants no longer have yields involved.  Food got reworked again, to most people's dismay.  Now plants are either growing, because conditions are within range, or they are not.

1 hour ago, Deyfenn said:

Hey Resonancia...from what I found:

Granite

A dense composite of Igneous Rock. Decor bonus: +0.20. Overheat Temperature: +1500%.

3.39

gneous Rock

A composite of solidified volcanic rock. Overheat Temperature: +1500%.

2

Obsidian

A brittle composite of volcanic Glass. Overheat Temperature: +1500%.

2

...meaning for gas pipes, granite is as good as it gets.

I think Insulated Pipes made from Wolframite transfer faster.  But otherwise, yes, Granite is the fastest.

[Cilya]

Can you give evidence that the farm tiles are heated up by the stored water ? Moreover, if it is the case, it's probably better not to cool the water but to cool the air around the farm tiles. It will cost a lot of energy or weezwort to cool the water that will be destroyed by the plant, while the cold air will remain in the room.

[Yothiel]

16 hours ago, PhailRaptor said:

I think Insulated Pipes made from Wolframite transfer faster.  But otherwise, yes, Granite is the fastest.

I haven't checked the math for this use case, but I think the insulation factor from the pipes does nothing. The only real difference lies in the mass of the pipe (and also its color on liquid / gas layers).

Only the insulation from the insulated tile is actually used, and reduces the heat transfer by a ~6.15E-5 factor instead of the expected 0.01

 

13 minutes ago, Cilya said:

Can you give evidence that the farm tiles are heated up by the stored water ? Although, if it is the case, it's probably better not to cool the water but to cool the air around the farm tiles. It will cost a lot of energy or weezwort to cool the water that will be destroyed by the plant, while the cold air will remain in the room.

I'd expect the water in storage to interact with the cell (that is, the metal used for building the hydroponic tile). To avoid heating in this case, you'd want to put a valve in order to provide exactly the water needed by the plant, and keep any excedent water in the pipe rather than the tile's storage.

[asveron]

I found open spaces that are a bit far apart are ridiculously effective.

I started by using drip, with 3 wheezeworts. Later on I left 1 wheezewort with no drip and it was still freezing the water. I ended up taking off all the wheezeworts so it would warm back up. (the walls are all abysallite btw, and the lights are there to kill off excess power from the hydrogen...)

In case you don't know the drip exploit / strategy, you continuously pump a small amount of water by using a water controller and drip like a minimal amount of water into the pool. After the room got cold enough ~-20c, it just stayed cold and I haven't been able to warm it up despite pumping hot water into it for like 20 cycles. I think if a room is already very cold, it cools more efficiently over time and is able to maintain the coldness. However, if you try to cool down hydrogen while introducing hot water to the room, it never seems to get very cold in the first place. This happens to all room i try to cool down with wheezeworts.