Equipment Rebalance?

[Renegade_Doll]

I notice some mods have a little bit of this in them but I don't think I've ever seen a mod that was dedicated to it. Is the community interested at all in that idea because it seems like one of the larger problems the game has. Like, the existence of stuff like the Breezy Vest which is totally useless but if the developers gave it like sixty more insulation it would actually be viable. Wouldn't think it would be a very complicated mod to make although I wouldn't be able to, just seems like nobody has ever thought to try making it though.

The game would be a lot more interesting if all those obscure items and equipment were actually viable to make beyond really niche purposes.

[Faintly Macabre]

Is this still a thing people go on about? These items are not meant to remain useful. The breezy vest is a thing you can make fairly easily in the mild season as a new player starting to learn the game. As you advance, you learn better tactics, and these items cease being useful, so just... stop making them. It's really that simple.

[DVGMedia]

go ahead and join a world 3 days or 4 days to winter and you can see how helpful those items are  really makes you appreciate those earmuffs and breezy vests.  especially if you dont happen to get the stone and gold for an alch and a thermal

 

[Auth]

That's like saying "You have the resources for both the breezy vest and the hibernation vest. Which do you craft?"

Of course you'd make the hibernation vest, it's potentially the best body slot for winter in the game.

But it's all based on circumstances, skill, and playstyle.

For instance, there's quite a few people committed to not using the "meta backpack" and they like to use other body slot items. The breezy vest is fairly cheap and is obtainable the first season of the game. Not to say they wouldn't upgrade to the puffy vest later, but for that little while, it's nice to have.

[HamBatter]

5 hours ago, EsaiXD said:

go ahead and join a world 3 days or 4 days to winter and you can see how helpful those items are  really makes you appreciate those earmuffs and breezy vests.  especially if you dont happen to get the stone and gold for an alch and a thermal

The Breezy Vest is a Rain Coat of Vanilla and requires an Alchemy Engine to prototype, so the only thing it has going for it is more durability. It would be better to get the materials for a Rain Coat (which can be prototyped at a Science Machine) and use the Silk for a Sewing Kit.

[DVGMedia]

6 hours ago, HamBatter said:

The Breezy Vest is a Rain Coat of Vanilla and requires an Alchemy Engine to prototype, so the only thing it has going for it is more durability. It would be better to get the materials for a Rain Coat (which can be prototyped at a Science Machine) and use the Silk for a Sewing Kit.

 rain coat has the same protection as woodies beard so you do get more warmth out of the breezy  i say just use whatever you have at hand be it dapper, breezy, raincoat, earmuffs, thermal, winter, ect.

 

[HamBatter]

16 hours ago, EsaiXD said:

 rain coat has the same protection as woodies beard so you do get more warmth out of the breezy

The Breezy Vest and Rain Coat both use INSULATION_SMALL, but I suppose the Breezy Vest is also more accessible in a group setting with what others leave lying around.

[Tylordian]

Maybe make the breezy vest make you find koalaphants easier? Or maybe they don't run away? I think that would be a nice use for it. Think beefalo hat.

[brbrmensch]

On 10/16/2017 at 10:57 PM, Weirdobob said:

Of course you'd make the hibernation vest, it's potentially the best body slot for winter in the game.

you joking? i wore it whole years with tamo once, when i was heavily using books as wicker

[Renegade_Doll]

On 10/16/2017 at 3:06 AM, TheHalcyonOne said:

Is this still a thing people go on about? These items are not meant to remain useful. The breezy vest is a thing you can make fairly easily in the mild season as a new player starting to learn the game. As you advance, you learn better tactics, and these items cease being useful, so just... stop making them. It's really that simple.

Really, they put content into the game just for it to be useless? These items are scraps new players whip up when they don't know and haven't prepared for the season which they likely will not survive. Why should content be designed for the player to grow out of it, in a none-linear sandbox game with limited content. I never even made most of those things to begin with, because they normally aren't useful period, just make a winter hat or beefalo hat.

On 10/16/2017 at 12:06 PM, EsaiXD said:

go ahead and join a world 3 days or 4 days to winter and you can see how helpful those items are  really makes you appreciate those earmuffs and breezy vests.  especially if you dont happen to get the stone and gold for an alch and a thermal

 

So this content is justified to be underpowered because players that join public servers at terrible times may or may not be able to scrape up the resources to use them?

On 10/16/2017 at 3:57 PM, Weirdobob said:

That's like saying "You have the resources for both the breezy vest and the hibernation vest. Which do you craft?"

Of course you'd make the hibernation vest, it's potentially the best body slot for winter in the game.

But it's all based on circumstances, skill, and playstyle.

For instance, there's quite a few people committed to not using the "meta backpack" and they like to use other body slot items. The breezy vest is fairly cheap and is obtainable the first season of the game. Not to say they wouldn't upgrade to the puffy vest later, but for that little while, it's nice to have.

Except in most cases these items are not worth making period and it has very little to do with your playstyle or circumstances since in the time it takes to hunt and kill a koalephant then craft the vest, you can hunt and kill beefalo to craft a hat four times warmer that takes up a less vital equipment slot. I've never bothered making the earmuffs or the breezy vest because in the time it takes to make them you can make better equipment that takes negligibly different resources to craft.

A winter hat alone which only requires four silk and beefalo fur, is as good as the earmuffs and vest combined.

 

 

 

 

 

I guess I shouldn't have bothered since all these replies are one of the classic things you hear when you suggest balance changes: it's useful 1/100th of the time so that justifies it being useless 99/100th of the time. Instead of buffing it so that it's actually useful in general instead of it being so underpowered that only in obscure unusual circumstances does it become viable.

 

If they doubled the breezy vests insulation it would be a viable thing for players to work towards making in preparation for winter and even use for winter. But no because one out of every hundred or more times it may be useful as a last ditch desperate resort to survive if you are a new player, let's not buff it and build onto the games equipment system let's leave it underpowered; because.

[fimmatek]

5 minutes ago, Renegade_Doll said:

Really, they put content into the game just for it to be useless? These items are scraps new players whip up when they don't know and haven't prepared for the season which they likely will not survive. Why should content be designed for the player to grow out of it, in a none-linear sandbox game with limited content. I never even made most of those things to begin with, because they normally aren't useful period, just make a winter hat or beefalo hat.

So this content is justified to be underpowered because players that join public servers at terrible times may or may not be able to scrape up the resources to use them?

Except in most cases these items are not worth making period and it has very little to do with your playstyle or circumstances since in the time it takes to hunt and kill a koalephant then craft the vest, you can hunt and kill beefalo to craft a hat four times warmer that takes up a less vital equipment slot. I've never bothered making the earmuffs or the breezy vest because in the time it takes to make them you can make better equipment that takes negligibly different resources to craft.

A winter hat alone which only requires four silk and beefalo fur, is as good as the earmuffs and vest combined.

 

I guess I shouldn't have bothered since all these replies are one of the classic things you hear when you suggest balance changes: it's useful 1/100th of the time so that justifies it being useless 99/100th of the time. Instead of buffing it so that it's actually useful in general instead of it being so underpowered that only in obscure unusual circumstances does it become viable.

 

If they doubled the breezy vests insulation it would be a viable thing for players to work towards making in preparation for winter and even use for winter. But no because one out of every hundred or more times it may be useful as a last ditch desperate resort to survive if you are a new player, let's not buff it and build onto the games equipment system let's leave it underpowered; because.

I'm glad to hear that you are such a good player!  

Here's my idea: since we can build a shadow manipulator and/or ruins rush in first autumn, why would anyone bother making useless football helmets or log suits?...

I hope it was clear that I was sarcastic. My point is that if an item is not the best one in at lest one aspect, it doesn't mean that it's completely useless, not for everyone, at least. I also never make for example a grass suit, but have no problem with it being in game as it is. I don't really understand why do you want everything to be useful every time for everyone. DS/T is well known for letting people play in different styles and teaching them by experience.

[DVGMedia]

1 hour ago, Renegade_Doll said:

So this content is justified to be underpowered because players that join public servers at terrible times may or may not be able to scrape up the resources to use them?

yeah that is the fun of the game really each time you enter a new world  it may not be possible you find beefalo every single time  so having options is what makes the game more interesting  the aspect of choice can play a lot in how an item is used and how it is effective. Like I said earlier say you join a world and all you can gather is enough materials to scrounge up  a science machine  and around spawn you are always near rabbits   every world you load up has the chance that you may not find the materials you need.  Of course there are better items but sometimes you just need to settle for staying alive.

[Faintly Macabre]

3 hours ago, Renegade_Doll said:

Why should content be designed for the player to grow out of it

Because that's how learning, growing, and progressing works. I don't understand why this is so difficult for the people playing this game. I've never in my life seen anybody ask "hey, why isn't this iron armor as useful as this mythril armor?".

[Sinister_Fang]

26 minutes ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

I've never in my life seen anybody ask "hey, why isn't this iron armor as useful as this mythril armor?".

I think you're missing most of their point with that analogy. Look at it this way: Why bother using the iron armor at all if you can easily just jump right to steel or mythril with almost the same amount of effort? But that pretty much just brings the discussion back to where it started...

[Cataca]

8 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

I think you're missing most of their point with that analogy. Look at it this way: Why bother using the iron armor at all if you can easily just jump right to steel or mythril with almost the same amount of effort? But that pretty much just brings the discussion back to where it started...

Which would be true if you'd need the same resources for the breezy vest as you do for the puffy vest. You dont, as a matter of fact, the puffy vest only becomes available when you ideally already have some kind of insulation.

Similarily, the beefalo hat requires you to kill something many newbies will have quite some issues handling.

Its not even close to "same effort".

[Sinister_Fang]

1 minute ago, Cataca said:

Which would be true if you'd need the same resources for the breezy vest as you do for the puffy vest. You dont, as a matter of fact, the puffy vest only becomes available when you ideally already have some kind of insulation.

Similarily, the beefalo hat requires you to kill something many newbies will have quite some issues handling.

Its not even close to "same effort".

Well it's pretty easy to kill them in DST. Just give them a twig or piece of grass and walk it away from the herd. Once it's away from the herd it's pretty much the same thing as a koalefant.

But that's not really the point I was getting at. It just seemed like they were ignoring most of the other side's argument. Honestly, I don't mind one way or the other.

[Lumina]

The beefalo hat require to kill multiple beefalo or being lucky, when the koalefant trump is a guaranteed drop.

 

Anyway, i would not dislike a rebalance update one day, but i'm also ok with some items being less useful than others right now.

[Faintly Macabre]

9 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

I think you're missing most of their point with that analogy. Look at it this way: Why bother using the iron armor at all if you can easily just jump right to steel or mythril with almost the same amount of effort? But that pretty much just brings the discussion back to where it started...

I'm not missing their point, I just think you're all forgetting that not everybody who picks up this game is going to manage to bag a winter koalefant before they've died in the cold two or three times. Unless they go looking for information it may take them a long time to even discover that there is a second Koalefant type. The game was designed with players learning new things and adapting them to their play as they go in mind, not solely for people who have read the wiki back and forth twice.

[56933043043]

4 hours ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

I'm not missing their point, I just think you're all forgetting that not everybody who picks up this game is going to manage to bag a winter koalefant before they've died in the cold two or three times. Unless they go looking for information it may take them a long time to even discover that there is a second Koalefant type. The game was designed with players learning new things and adapting them to their play as they go in mind, not solely for people who have read the wiki back and forth twice.

I consider it better to make items obtained earlier in a game's progression situationally useful later than to have them be trashed altogether.

If it's worth mentioning, the breezy vest also provides a small amount of rain protection, which the puffy vest doesn't give. Could be useful on the early days of Spring, since it's still possible to freeze during the first few nights of the season.

[Sicko Hog]

i think they should make flint tools better so that golden tools don't completely replace them later in the game... that's not fair to flint