Using Showers

[jigggy2000]

I have an idea that relates to showers, as right now showers are pretty useless. if you want to clean a dupe of germs you just use a sink or wash basin. Now the first logical thing that comes to mind is that this only addresses the hands. Now this definitely leads to dupes not transferring germs to other objects so that makes perfect sense, no problems there. But that still leaves the rest of the body. Now at first I thought maybe make it so washing the dupes hands only gets rid of for example half the germs. But if they washed their hands they shouldnt be transferring germs and if the germ overlay showed dupes still having germs on them it would be confusing to determine if they washed their hands or not. Instead, to simplify the whole thing i noticed dupes still get the grimy effect. Perhaps just use that to determine hygiene level.

Now doing a quick google search tells me poor hygiene can lead to food poisoning and Pneumonia (infection of the lungs) which could be seen similar to slime lung. So if a dupe has the grimy effect make it so germs get a multiplier effect on them so germs will start to grow in their bodies in a small percentage if they get infected by any amount. making their immune systems work a little a harder so it shouldnt be left unaddressed. The grimy effect should probably only be applied after a few cycles of not showering. Probably enough to not create problems in early game.  This would make showers a little more viable.

[The Plum Gate]

The grimy! debuff doesn't do much of anything right now. Showers are nice for feeding thimble reed, but otherwise a waste of duplicant time,

[Mjello]

They also shower a lot !

Every dupe showers several times a day if you build enough showers for them. Its just like teenagers ;).

They need a place in the system somehow. Offcourse they clean all germs, "no limit" but as the germ system is right now. It is not aggressive enough to make showers relevant.

I thought a buff like nice toilet.

And grimy debuff kind o need something to make it relevant.

[TheGCat]

23 minutes ago, Mjello said:

Every dupe showers several times a day if you build enough showers for them. Its just like teenagers ;).

So true, haha.

[brummbar7]

I'm kind of a broken record on this topic - but I think grimy should cause an odor, like trench stench did in AU.  People irl shower mainly to remove sweat and BO, or dirt.  But these don't really have anything to do with germs for the most part (obviously BO results from bacteria, but a non-harmful type).  This stench would distract and annoy other dupes, possibly giving them a debuff such as 'smelt some BO' or whatever.  They could even transfer the grimy debuff to furniture, such as tables, and medical and normal beds.  Causing the furniture in question to perhaps emit a 'stink' aura, similar to loud sleeper.  This would require disinfection to remove.  Or it could simply be a contagious debuff that nullifies any decor bonus of any item interacted with.  Dupe opens a fridge?  No more decor benefit for fridge.  Same for bathroom fixtures, etc (shower would be immune obviously).  There could even be texture overlays to depict it perhaps.  It unfortunately would not address art spam though, since it's never interacted with once built. 

BUT, all that would need to come with better controls for the showers, in terms of how many times per day a dupe is allowed to use it - anywhere from 'whenever they want' to 1 (maybe even less?).  There could also be more gradations of shower-triggering debuffs.  Grimy could result from digging, while 'filthy' could be a more serious version, derived from wading in polluted water or mining slime, or interacting with some mob/plant.  This would probably tend to encourage job specialization in digging, so that you don't end up with so many dupes getting the tag and using the shower.

In any case, the debuffs could worsen with time.  So maybe every half cycle the debuff increases in severity at the personal level, increasing the stress debuff the longer they go without.

[Executive_Lurker]

I like the idea of grimy adding stress and causing germs to multiply faster or increasing the germ pop. cap

[jigggy2000]

13 hours ago, brummbar7 said:

 People irl shower mainly to remove sweat and BO, or dirt.  But these don't really have anything to do with germs for the most part (obviously BO results from bacteria, but a non-harmful type). 

That's half true. That only would happen if you didn't shower for a few weeks. But if you didnt shower for like say a couple months then it definitely would cause health problems.

I like the BO thing though. As long as showers are more viable I don't mind what they do.

[ShamPeiN]

i would like a different debuff, more procedural. for example they would start at 10/20, their look would deteriorate with time, their hair would look greasy and they would stink more and more

to have some kind of bonus/penalty, this should limit dupe interactions

dupes with stinking aura would scare others, the clean ones would attract others.

should be some combined jobs, like moving carts or operating machines with some bonus to individual ones, like double hamster wheels

also interaction like flirting or baby making would have more chance with clean dupes

the morale system should be less based on decor, more based on food quality, also on comfort of beds, this would require better tier beds, massage, tables, etc.

some sort of early game clothing would be nice, washing clothes and preparing for winter/summer could be part of the game challenges 

[jigggy2000]

I only target germs ATM because there's been feedback on how unthreatening germs are right now. How bout this, maybe if you have the grimy effect and your dupe receives any sort of damage like from combat or burns for example.  They end up getting an infection from having dirty wounds. Infection gives your dupe a immune system debuff and would only be removed if treated at a medbay. Of course right now that's not a big deal as there's not much necessary combat. but once they had more hostile mobs that would soon change. 

I feel like someone has already mentioned this. But even so that just means it's a good idea. 

[Le0n1des]

I guess you can top off several penalties on grimy to increase the usefulness of showers. From the existing mechanics - 1. Germ multiplayer factor (positive for grimy, negative for clean) 2. Direct stress to the dupe 3. 3-5 cycle count that induces "trench stench" after several consecutive grimy cycles.

I would also change the décor overlay to direct "stress" overlay, that will present the final stress multiplayer based on décor, temperature, breathable gas presence, overpressure, polluted water/oxygen, light, noise. It would make all stress inducers show up, grimy dupes included

[brummbar7]

9 hours ago, ShamPeiN said:

also interaction like flirting or baby making would have more chance with clean dupes

I'm guessing that Klei specifically chose the 'printing pod clones' lore specifically so that they can avoid ever having to deal with love and baby making.

9 hours ago, jigggy2000 said:

That's half true. That only would happen if you didn't shower for a few weeks. But if you didnt shower for like say a couple months then it definitely would cause health problems.

At the point where you start having fleas and lice, yes.  Otherwise I'm not so sure.  In any case, ONI is not really geared toward operating on weeks and months timescales when it comes to building useage.

[LaShomb]

I'd be happy if it just had an arrow that I could set to make them use it while returning from a trip into a contaminated area. I could then set it as an exit from their beds or returning from the Slimelung tunnels or through polluted water.

I like the idea of it decor penalty. I take it that sinks clean enough of you to be healthy and not spread germs, but the grimy is more for things that affect how you appear to others and overall stress levels. Balance early game by having it match decor expectations. The longer the dup is around, the more they expect their cohabitants to match the decor. Overall I think the decor system is ready for a bit of an upgrade and hopefully showers are included in it.

[ShamPeiN]

one could hope, having an antfarm with no incest? they added clones cause it explains low character variety, not that low but after lot of time and games you end up hitting all of them, also they dont have a backstory, so its just a delay not a final decision. one interesting thing is klei is from canada as the stargate, and the printing pod reminds me much of that. so the duplicants are asgards, following this logic, they only need to find some old asgard dna to be able to clone old asgards to be able to wohoo again.

[Oozinator]

27 minutes ago, ShamPeiN said:

one could hope, having an antfarm with no incest? they added clones cause it explains low character variety, not that low but after lot of time and games you end up hitting all of them, also they dont have a backstory, so its just a delay not a final decision. one interesting thing is klei is from canada as the stargate, and the printing pod reminds me much of that. so the duplicants are asgards, following this logic, they only need to find some old asgard dna to be able to clone old asgards to be able to wohoo again.

103% truth!

[LeadfootSlim]

I'd love a 1/day limit for showers, or even a controllable setting - that'd give us a lot more control over their use, I think.

Adjustments to the Grimy debuff would also be suitable, but the biggest issue for me is the infinite shower loops.

[Mjello]

57 minutes ago, LeadfootSlim said:

I'd love a 1/day limit for showers, or even a controllable setting - that'd give us a lot more control over their use, I think.

Adjustments to the Grimy debuff would also be suitable, but the biggest issue for me is the infinite shower loops.

Grimy could be made like stamina. A percentage

Depending on what the dupe does it goes up slowly. Until 100% grimy. Then trenchstench with debuff for immunity and stress until clean again.

Right now they get grimy over nothing and that means showering all day long.

It just needs a little balancing. Right now it has no effect on game at all so you can just ignore it. I am looking forward to see what they do with it in the future.