Vomiting into the sink

[NurdRage]

Dupes that vomit tend to do so in the worst places. Perhaps after the sink is researched and built, maybe we can have dupes instead run to the nearest unoccupied sink to vomit. 

[Nero Darkard]

Good idea. Although the bigger issue, at least to me, when it comes to spreading polluted water is urination, having control over dube behavior is crucial in this game.

In addition to your suggestion, I would also like to add the option to control puking dublicants very early by implementing something like sick bags or bins that need to manually be emptied after each use.

[Coolthulhu]

This would make vomiter stress reaction pretty much non-existent, even weaker than binge eater.

[NurdRage]

Keep in mind all stress reactions become non-existent once you build your base properly and manage it well. The vomit sink changes the mechanic a bit and gives you another option to deal with vomiters. 

Might even open up a new game play style. Get all vomiting dupes and create a maximum stress base and use them to give you free power through the fertilizer maker/NGG combo. 

I do agree that if you take away an obstacle the game is less interesting. But i think the current gameplay already makes stress reactions a bit weak in the long run once you manage stress properly. In the early game, when you don't have sinks, vomiters are still a problem. Binge eaters are an even bigger problem in the early game. But as you progress, both of them become non-issues.

However, i think the vomit sink actually opens up new gameplay now. Vomiters can stay relevant. We can actually say "Maybe i DON'T want to manage their stress. Maybe i want them to vomit as much as they can now."

 

In the end, new additions to the game should give more gameplay options rather than remove them. I think the vomit sink does that. 

 

 

[Coolthulhu]

12 hours ago, NurdRage said:

In the early game, when you don't have sinks, vomiters are still a problem. Binge eaters are an even bigger problem in the early game. But as you progress, both of them become non-issues.

However, i think the vomit sink actually opens up new gameplay now. Vomiters can stay relevant. We can actually say "Maybe i DON'T want to manage their stress. Maybe i want them to vomit as much as they can now."

Only if you manage your base improperly. Binge eaters will have tons of mealwood to gorge on in any sensible base - unless you're rushing something (oil biome), it's trivial to set up enough farming for an army of binge eaters.

Letting vomiters vomit once in a while can save time they'd spend on massage and only requires some mopping afterwards. Now, mopping is pretty tedious (there is no "keep this area mopped" designation) and a sink would fix that, but so would just turning off the whole stress mechanic instead of pretending to keep it on but adding workarounds that make it nonexistent.

[NurdRage]

2 minutes ago, Coolthulhu said:

Only if you manage your base improperly. Binge eaters will have tons of mealwood to gorge on in any sensible base - unless you're rushing something (oil biome), it's trivial to set up enough farming for an army of binge eaters.

That argument can be said for EVERYTHING. 

Oxygen is only a problem if you manage your base improperly. Power is only a problem if your manage your base improperly. Stress is only a problem if you manage your base improperly.

It's trivial to do X and solve your problems. 

6 minutes ago, Coolthulhu said:

Letting vomiters vomit once in a while can save time they'd spend on massage and only requires some mopping afterwards. Now, mopping is pretty tedious (there is no "keep this area mopped" designation) and a sink would fix that, but so would just turning off the whole stress mechanic instead of pretending to keep it on but adding workarounds that make it nonexistent.

Pretty much a strawman argument. Half the problems in the game become non-existent after you do/build certain "trivial" things.

[Coolthulhu]

Just now, NurdRage said:

That argument can be said for EVERYTHING. 

Oxygen is only a problem if you manage your base improperly. Power is only a problem if your manage your base improperly. Stress is only a problem if you manage your base improperly.

Food is easier by an order of magnitude. Setting up a farm for 10 dupes is easier than capping a geyser, requires no engineering, produces no waste more dangerous than polluted dirt, produces no heat, gives only tiny time savings if skipped, requires only basic research that takes less than a dupe-cycle to unlock. Adding more food to compensate for a binge eater dupe is trivial - just extend the line by ~3 planters.

So basically, you ran out of arguments and are all up in reductio ad absurdium. Try thinking next time.

[NurdRage]

No dude, you're the one whose trying to blow up the vomiter argument. Seriously, what's the problem? if it becomes a non-issue. then heck the steam geyser makes water purification a non-issue. 

4 minutes ago, Coolthulhu said:

So basically, you ran out of arguments and are all up in reductio ad absurdium. Try thinking next time.

Sure, you keep telling yourself that buddy.

[The Plum Gate]

This vomiting mechanic might need only apply to sick duplicants.

[Michi01]

Isn't the point of vomiting to punish you for poorly managing hygiene? If you take it away, you can just completely ignore hygiene requirements for toilets (I'm aware that vomiting also reduces calories, but food is not that hard to come by by the time you set up sinks).

[Botaxalim]

So i can have a dupe in 3x3 lock in, for unlimited polluted water? Dupe still can reach food from diagonal tiles right?

[watermelen671]

3 hours ago, Michi01 said:

Isn't the point of vomiting to punish you for poorly managing hygiene? If you take it away, you can just completely ignore hygiene requirements for toilets (I'm aware that vomiting also reduces calories, but food is not that hard to come by by the time you set up sinks).

Maybe a way that can balance this is by making it so that when a dupe vomits, they spread food poisoning germs. That way letting a vomiter stress get too high is more punishing.

And if they were to do it in the sink/toilet, it'd be unusable until someone disinfects it.

And if they were to implement the barf bag or some other equivalent, there'd be food poisoning germs in the bag, and any dupe that sweeps it up will have germs on them too.

Spoiler

 

One thing that drives me nuts is that they always seem to vomit in the ONE place you DON'T want them to.

Oh, I'm gonna go get some food! *Vomits*
Oh, I'm gonna go sweep by our only source of fresh water! *Vomits*

It's reasons like this why I nuke a base in chlorine whenever a single germ gets in.

And if we were to able to sort of regulate where the vomiters would vomit, it'd make me much less likely to automatically reject any vomiters.

Also, a bit off track here, but I don't care. x3

Ever since the Outbreak Upgrade Trailer, whenever a Stinky appears and their occupation is Chef, I immediately smash reject/choose a new dupe.

 

 

[NurdRage]

4 hours ago, Botaxalim said:

So i can have a dupe in 3x3 lock in, for unlimited polluted water? Dupe still can reach food from diagonal tiles right?

Yep, you don't even need a sink really.

You just build a room over a cistern of polluted water using mesh tiles, as they vomit the polluted water falls through into the cistern. If you want to feed them without them escaping I think you can use a door with certain permissions to block them from getting out. Put a fridge inside. 

Heck you can probably do this with any dupe, since all dupes need to use the washroom too, and will make a mess if they can't.

 

5 hours ago, Michi01 said:

Isn't the point of vomiting to punish you for poorly managing hygiene? If you take it away, you can just completely ignore hygiene requirements for toilets (I'm aware that vomiting also reduces calories, but food is not that hard to come by by the time you set up sinks).

When i first thought of it I only thought the dupes with vomiting trait that vomited under stress. Because vomiter trait was essentially voluntary (you can choose dupes that don't have it) i didn't think negating was an issue. But you reminded me that ALL dupes vomit if sick. That would indeed be radically changing the mechanics of the game if it was negated.

I retract my suggestion.

That being said, it just seems intuitive for dupes to vomit into the sink. Where do you vomit? on the floor? In my entire life with the thousands of people i've met over the decades the only times I've ever seen anyone vomit outside the sink was 1) they were too drunk to know where they were vomiting, and 2) there was no sink available. 

For a game that tries to be intuitive, even going so far as to follow basic chemistry like burning natural gas makes carbon dioxide, it just feels so counter intuitive for vomit not to go into the sink. 

[thewreckedangle]

hm, maybe i'm just different but irl, if/whenever i vomit, its into the toilet. not the sink!

13 hours ago, NurdRage said:

In my entire life with the thousands of people i've met over the decades the only times I've ever seen anyone vomit outside the sink was 1) they were too drunk to know where they were vomiting, and 2) there was no sink available. 

 

[NurdRage]

2 hours ago, thewreckedangle said:

hm, maybe i'm just different but irl, if/whenever i vomit, its into the toilet. not the sink!

 

Most people do that.

In this game though, the toilet is enclosed so the animation is essentially just entering the toilet... identical animation to using the toilet for pissing and defecating.

So i thought using the sink would be a cooler animation because it's actually different. Otherwise if it's identical to using the toilet then what's the point?

But as i said before, if sink vomiting changes the sickness mechanic too much then it was probably a bad idea.

I still think though it would be intuitive to use the sink. It feels so artificial not to let them use the sink if you build it right there. I don't know of anyone that deliberately avoided using a sink/toilet to vomit when it was available. 

 

[Reaniel]

Personally, I think it's not a bad idea.  However, I don't think a dupe should be able to "hold the barf" the way they can for peeing.  If they're too far away from a toilet/sink/washbasin, they should vomit away on their way there.

A lot of people kept bringing up how they'd rush to a sink or bathroom if they feel like puking.  While this is certainly true, it's also true that you can't really hold it while running across a football field.

I'd say let the dupe hold it for maybe 15 or 30 seconds (out of the 600 second cycle) while he/she runs for the nearest sink/bathroom/water basin.  If they can't get there in time, they'll make a mess.

[NurdRage]

Oh absolutely i agree with that. I was originally envisioning the sink must be within 30 tiles running distance. (including ladder travel). So you would have to design your base around that problem, or deal with it and mop up the puke as it occurred.

I thought it was really silly that i had a dupe standing right in front of the sink and he vomited in front of it.

[Reaniel]

8 minutes ago, NurdRage said:

Oh absolutely i agree with that. I was originally envisioning the sink must be within 30 tiles running distance. (including ladder travel). So you would have to design your base around that problem, or deal with it and mop up the puke as it occurred.

I thought it was really silly that i had a dupe standing right in front of the sink and he vomited in front of it.

I agree with you. This is especially so when you have a medical bay setup with bathroom and washbasin in there.