Nick's opinions of the META

[Nickolas2600]

So hi. I come around these parts of town to make sure everyone is doing okay. Lately I have seen a lot of complaints about the new character because people feel she isnt very good? I've always had different opinions on what characters are good and who are not due to my personal play style. I mean I get wanting to pick a character who you feel is useful, but attacking someone personally cause they like to play as a certain person! I have played characters for the sole reason of me enjoying their quotes! Please everyone let people play who they want instead of blaming a company who gives us free updates for a character not being op.  

[minespatch]

We're into a new year of Don't Starve(believe it or not), so I'm just waiting. HAven't said too much since a lot of stuff got dumped into the fandom's lap just a day ago. I'm on the same boat as you.

@Quoth143 already posted about Winona's bad sense of direction. It's adorable.

[spideswine]

That's not it really.

People aren't aiming their complaints at the person playing Winona, same as people (generally) don't complain about people playing Wilson or Wes.

People complain about "Why would anyone even want to play this?", her theme is trash, her perks are boring, just a ****ty character.

[Lumina]

I'm not sure people aren't aiming their complaints at the people playing Winona, i'm sure there are reactions like "this character is useless, don't play it". Also, when saying "theme is trash, perks boring, *****y character", it could become very insulting for people playing her because some people are implying that you must be stupid to play a character so bad.

[spideswine]

As things stand she's still very new so it's mostly "This guy is probably playing her because he wants to see what the new character is".

Past that it would be the same impression as someone playing Wilson.

[Starlogy]

While she had HUGE potential for being a super useful character (and could still be useful if Klei wants to rework some of her abilities!), she ended up just being a slightly better Wilson with no downsides. It's boring, and quite frankly, not fun.

[Lumina]

It's fun for some people, who want to learn the game without having too much downside to manage. I mean, either the character isn't complete yet/is lacking something, or the character is for beginners and we aren't the target.

 

And it's totally possible, maybe it's why there wasn't big announcement here about her and stuff like this, because for us, "veteran" of don't starve, she isn't attractive (in most cases), but for new players she could be a good choice.

[Toros]

This is exactly the sort of pointless hand-wringing that makes me continuously disappointed in this community.

Literally no one criticizes others for picking weak characters, because we have many examples of Wes beating every challenge this game has to offer.  Every single complaint about characters is about design and balance.

If OP was paying attention they'd realized there was no need for their vapid and misguided "can't we all just get along" post.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

10 hours ago, spideswine said:

That's not it really.

People aren't aiming their complaints at the person playing Winona, same as people (generally) don't complain about people playing Wilson or Wes.

People complain about "Why would anyone even want to play this?", her theme is trash, her perks are boring, just a ****ty character.

Blame the game, not the player

[spideswine]

3 hours ago, Lumina said:

It's fun for some people, who want to learn the game without having too much downside to manage. I mean, either the character isn't complete yet/is lacking something, or the character is for beginners and we aren't the target.

Can we stop with this myth already?

Having no downsides DOES NOT make the character noob friendly, it's having downsides which aren't too obvious to get around and upsides which aren't too obvious to use which makes it a bit less noob friendly.

I'd say willow,wigfrid,wendy and webber are all better begginer characters than winona/wilson, with wx/wicker being slightly worse for the totally new player.

As thing stand now the reasons wilson get's picked in ~95% of which he is picked is because he is the first character to appear in the select screen, winona doesn't even have that going for her.

I'd also argue that wilsons beard(cause meat effigies) is better than a slightly cheaper sewing kit, so I don't see her as being a better wilson either, she's in fact worse.

[Nickolas2600]

2 hours ago, Toros said:

This is exactly the sort of pointless hand-wringing that makes me continuously disappointed in this community.

Literally no one criticizes others for picking weak characters, because we have many examples of Wes beating every challenge this game has to offer.  Every single complaint about characters is about design and balance.

If OP was paying attention they'd realized there was no need for their vapid and misguided "can't we all just get along" post.

insulting a character that some people enjoy to play can be seen as insulting and people get insulted. Im not just complaining about the new character but about all characters. I've been kicked from servers for picking someone that they dont want. Being called dumb for picking Wilson shouldnt ever happen.  

[Lumina]

50 minutes ago, spideswine said:

Can we stop with this myth already?

Of course if you call this a myth you have proof. Right ? Because i don't see why you can say it's a myth.

[Toros]

2 hours ago, Nickolas2600 said:

insulting a character that some people enjoy to play can be seen as insulting and people get insulted. Im not just complaining about the new character but about all characters. I've been kicked from servers for picking someone that they dont want. Being called dumb for picking Wilson shouldnt ever happen.  

If people feel insulted when I say Wilson is one of the weakest characters that's their problem, not mine.  If someone is upset by facts it isn't my responsiblity to cater to them.

Also, if you're joining a random server you'll run into all sorts of ******* behavior by hosts.  Either play solo or use social skills to find either a decent community or friends to play with.

None of that gives this thread any reason to exist.

[spideswine]

2 hours ago, Lumina said:

Of course if you call this a myth you have proof. Right ? Because i don't see why you can say it's a myth.

Oh great, the "burden of proof" **** throwing.

So in that spirit, you made a claim stating she's good for noobs(presumably cause she has no weaknesses), the burden of proof is on you.

[Lumina]

Not really, i'm saying that maybe we are seeing her the wrong way. It's a possibility. Like in "She could be a good choice".

On the other hand, you are claiming that it's a myth, which is a strong affirmation, and so you have to give proof.

 

Also, i think there is a reason for Klei's choice about her perk, so again, either she doesn't have all her perk right now, or we are expecting too much of her. It's possible, since she appeared with the release of the game on Xbox One, and making a new character for a release could lead people to play her, so maybe she is intended to be a character that doesn't make discovering the game harder and that could use every game mechanism.

For example, playing wigfrid or webber as a first character make you miss big part of the game. Only meat for Wigfrid, no pig friend for Webber. Maybe they are better for a beginner (but i think i disagree, only meat could be very hard when you don't know how to play), but they are limiting your playstyle a lot.

 

I'm just saying : if we ("veteran" players) were the target of the character, she would have been mentioned here (officially) or teased here (officially) before her release. But in fact, most of the hype come because of players, not Klei. So maybe she isn't for "us", and it's why we are seeing her as "bad".

I'm not saying it's the case. I'm just trying to understand, because i'm sure Klei could have made her better. So either it's a choice, or something is missing (because of a future update, because of lack of time...).

 

If it's a choice, why this choice ?

[spideswine]

22 minutes ago, Lumina said:

Not really, i'm saying that maybe we are seeing her the wrong way. It's a possibility. Like in "She could be a good choice".

On the other hand, you are claiming that it's a myth, which is a strong affirmation, and so you have to give proof.

I hate to break it to you but "maybe" is very much a strong affirmation, you have to prove that there's a possibility for her to be good, you haven't done that, and the burden of proof is still on you.

22 minutes ago, Lumina said:

Also, i think there is a reason for Klei's choice about her perk, so again, either she doesn't have all her perk right now, or we are expecting too much of her. It's possible, since she appeared with the release of the game on Xbox One, and making a new character for a release could lead people to play her, so maybe she is intended to be a character that doesn't make discovering the game harder and that could use every game mechanism.

You're just throwing words with nothing to support them.

Her speech file has been out for quite a while, more than enough for them to think of appropriate perks, they may change her, but if that does happen it's probably because people hate her so much, not because she's unfinished.

22 minutes ago, Lumina said:

For example, playing wigfrid or webber as a first character make you miss big part of the game. Only meat for Wigfrid, no pig friend for Webber. Maybe they are better for a beginner (but i think i disagree, only meat could be very hard when you don't know how to play), but they are limiting your playstyle a lot.

The point of beginner chars(at least generally) are things that will make the player get through the beginning, not to learn the entire game thoroughly, hell by this logic wilson isn't a beginner character, as other characters need more knowledge to get beard hair, and need to play differently through the winter.

Also let's be serious here, wigfrid meats and webbers pigs definitely don't "affect your playstyle a lot", sure you can make them do so, but it's nothing inherent.

22 minutes ago, Lumina said:

I'm just saying : if we ("veteran" players) were the target of the character, she would have been mentioned here (officially) or teased here (officially) before her release. But in fact, most of the hype come because of players, not Klei. So maybe she isn't for "us", and it's why we are seeing her as "bad".

 

See this is what happens when you are too busy throwing the "burden of proof" around, you just make ridiculous statements but shove "maybe" everywhere in some sort of an attempt to give you immunity to the burden of proof, so let me try this:

I'm just saying: maybe this character wasn't thought through at all, maybe klei was lazy, maybe it's not aimed at anyone at all, maybe it's just a piece of **** who's art and theme pretty much appeals to nobody, and who's perks only appeal to those who literally don't even know what her perks are.

Maybe, just maybe.

22 minutes ago, Lumina said:

If it's a choice, why this choice ?

Someone was stupid, or someone was lazy, or both.

I mean it took people less than a day to be sick of her, surely that's something they could've figured out.

[Lumina]

I explained reasoning, but Klei is lazy or stupid is probably a better explanation, sure.

[spideswine]

1 minute ago, Lumina said:

I explained reasoning, but Klei is lazy or stupid is probably a better explanation, sure.

It makes more sense than your "maybes", yes.

[Lumina]

Maybe.

[Nickolas2600]

this topic got out of hand and clearly proved my point. 

2 hours ago, Toros said:

If people feel insulted when I say Wilson is one of the weakest characters that's their problem, not mine.  If someone is upset by facts it isn't my responsiblity to cater to them.

Also, if you're joining a random server you'll run into all sorts of ******* behavior by hosts.  Either play solo or use social skills to find either a decent community or friends to play with.

None of that gives this thread any reason to exist.

thats like saying "if i insult someone and they get offended thats not my fault." 

[spideswine]

6 minutes ago, Nickolas2600 said:

this topic got out of hand and clearly proved my point.

"I define myself as correct and therefore I am"

Alright buddy, whatever you say.

[Nickolas2600]

1 minute ago, spideswine said:

"I define myself as correct and therefor I am"

Alright buddy, whatever you say.

I said it leads to fights are we not in an argument right now?

[spideswine]

2 minutes ago, Nickolas2600 said:

I said it leads to fights are we not in an argument right now?

We are in an argument because you made an argument in the OP.

People are getting mad at each other more or less because it's an argument on the internet.

[Lumina]

I'm pretty sure problem isn't with the OP.

[spideswine]

2 minutes ago, Lumina said:

I'm pretty sure problem isn't with the OP.

What problem?

If you make an argument you're going to have an argument, which part here is the problem?

Granted arguments can be done in a less aggressive manner, but that's unlikely to happen on the internet(unless we're dealing with some very specific environment, which we're not).

As to what have people said which contributed to the aggression, that's another argument which nobody is going to settle on, so I'm not very interested in it.