DarkD Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I personally like the new content, but within the day I've figured out enough of it to completely stabalize my colony. I don't feel any pressure at all anymore. I thought with the smaller amount of water that I'd struggle a bit, but everything is so easy right now. I have 120,000 coal. 10,000 algae and the ability to dig up more whenever I like(10,000 goes a long way now. Deoxydizers use much less now). I have my water setup to efficiently use every drop of water (1 water pump can support 24 electrolyzers or 8 purifiers if you do it properly) My food is a combination of mealworm and bristleblossom. If you put them near a cold zone, and they maintain a perfect temperature for both to grow. I put my coal plants in a cold zone, in a little bit of water, with an algae deoxydizer and I can run it as long as I like. I even put a bunch of ice and snow materials next to it so they cool it as it runs. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/76250-so-hows-are-you-liking-thermal-update/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrivateDonut Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Smaller amount of water? If you find a geyser you'll have water basically forever. But I have been enjoying the new patch. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/76250-so-hows-are-you-liking-thermal-update/#findComment-885347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjom Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 the main porblem is the damage of stuff from heat. for example the gerenrator overheat even u place them into water and the countinous reapair will consume ur all cuper and then u must destory ur generators, electrolisers and rebuild from different metarial what is accesible at the moment. its just stupid and badly designed. and yes form other perspectives the game more easy. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/76250-so-hows-are-you-liking-thermal-update/#findComment-885393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcurad90 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 The game became easier and get boring before you need to do something. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/76250-so-hows-are-you-liking-thermal-update/#findComment-885399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecu Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I think the thermal update was rather awesome regarding its challenge when it initially released. It nerfed mealwood, making you resort to food sources that were a whole lot more challenging to maintain, added temperature mechanics that damage your devices, and even made food spoilage a much stronger issue. However, after the patch that dropped today, they kind of overbuffed food in the opposite direction. This essentially makes the change to mealwood somewhat pointless in my opinion. Additionally, I learned that the new temperature devices cannot actually reach super high heat or cold now. As such, we lose a lot of our ability to manipulate the physics of the game...which is rather disappointing. Overall though, I feel like it is a step in the right direction. I just hope that future updates expand and rebalance things to that we get back more of the challenge. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/76250-so-hows-are-you-liking-thermal-update/#findComment-885402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octyabr Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I'd like to think that this is just an introduction to temperature related mechanics, and the craftables we have now, are just for climatological purpuses, later on they'll add (re-add?) the smelter, for instance; so we can make high tier metals! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/76250-so-hows-are-you-liking-thermal-update/#findComment-885406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sai05 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Goodbye my coal generator :V 270*C in ice bimoe and generator it self 300*C Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/76250-so-hows-are-you-liking-thermal-update/#findComment-885417 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjom Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 " added temperature mechanics that damage your devices, " its just a stupid thing and i tell u why: when u design any device u will determine the operating temperature. for example the comon pumps what u can buy in hardware store all have a termal fuse what turn off the device if run dry and overheating because no cooling water. and all expensive stuff have similar protection. and we r in a space and our devices have no a single basic defense, when ur life is depend on them? and the other problem is the hundred diferent type material. when u built generator with coper u can repair with coper only but when u have no a single coper anymore ur ******. this is a big issue. 1 hour ago, Ecu said: Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/76250-so-hows-are-you-liking-thermal-update/#findComment-885458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecu Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, mjom said: " added temperature mechanics that damage your devices, " its just a stupid thing and i tell u why: when u design any device u will determine the operating temperature. for example the comon pumps what u can buy in hardware store all have a termal fuse what turn off the device if run dry and overheating because no cooling water. and all expensive stuff have similar protection. and we r in a space and our devices have no a single basic defense, when ur life is depend on them? and the other problem is the hundred diferent type material. when u built generator with coper u can repair with coper only but when u have no a single coper anymore ur ******. this is a big issue. Honestly, real world mechanics do not need to apply to game mechanics. I feel the heat damage mechanics add an interesting element to the game and offer different uses for different materials. It does not necessarily need to follow real world logic as long as it fits reasonably well within the game world in a consistent fashion. So really, where's the problem with this? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/76250-so-hows-are-you-liking-thermal-update/#findComment-885462 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilda Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I suspect the problem is in CO2 - it behaves really weird with temperature. It gains it really quickly in either direction and does not equalize with surroundings. For example I had a single spot of -37 floating around my plants freezing them. In the neigbourhood of 20+ gases. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/76250-so-hows-are-you-liking-thermal-update/#findComment-885473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecu Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, Vilda said: I suspect the problem is in CO2 - it behaves really weird with temperature. It gains it really quickly in either direction and does not equalize with surroundings. For example I had a single spot of -37 floating around my plants freezing them. In the neigbourhood of 20+ gases. I think the issue there is probably density. The CO2 can maintain small pockets that are rather dense. As such, once it is cold and/or hot, it becomes quite a problem to change it's temperature. People are having similar issues with large amounts of other materials (such as melting a large amount of stored ice). Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/76250-so-hows-are-you-liking-thermal-update/#findComment-885480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjom Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 then why need wire for electricity and pipe for fluids? this heat damage is a big fail. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/76250-so-hows-are-you-liking-thermal-update/#findComment-885481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilda Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 What fascinated me were the extremes it could make right next to each other. Posted a screen somewhere, might be worth bugreport. Basically I tried cooling coal generator with a hydrofan. The only effect was a cooked generator on one side and solid co2 on the other. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/76250-so-hows-are-you-liking-thermal-update/#findComment-885482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I must admit I've been too focused on finding flaws/bugs compared to the old version to really be playing it fully in it's own right and testing out the new opportunities it gives. Like I haven't even started making clothes yet and see if that's worth doing from a sustainability point of view, or it's just sprinkling for the sim gamers. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/76250-so-hows-are-you-liking-thermal-update/#findComment-885486 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecu Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, mjom said: then why need wire for electricity and pipe for fluids? this heat damage is a big fail. I'm wondering if you are trolling at this point as you are not really making a whole lot of sense. Are you trying to refute my comment about not needing realism by stating that they used wires for electricity? That really isn't an good argument at all. Games can choose to use or not use realism as they see fit. Sometimes it is beneficial to tie a mechanic to a real world analog to make it more intuitive. Other times they may choose to not use real world analogs because it benefits the intended gameplay. This is such an instance. 9 minutes ago, Vilda said: What fascinated me were the extremes it could make right next to each other. Posted a screen somewhere, might be worth bugreport. Basically I tried cooling coal generator with a hydrofan. The only effect was a cooked generator on one side and solid co2 on the other. Yeah. It is indeed rather odd. If I would hazard a guess as to what is going on, your hydrofan is cooling the CO2 as it is generated, before it manages to combine with the existing cloud. This allows it to cool quickly and once it joins the cloud of cold gas, it becomes a lot harder to affect it's overall temperature. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/76250-so-hows-are-you-liking-thermal-update/#findComment-885493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risu Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 44 minutes ago, Ecu said: Yeah. It is indeed rather odd. If I would hazard a guess as to what is going on, your hydrofan is cooling the CO2 as it is generated, before it manages to combine with the existing cloud. This allows it to cool quickly and once it joins the cloud of cold gas, it becomes a lot harder to affect it's overall temperature. Guess a better question would be can the air conditioner cool gases further than the heat it produces. Fighting thermodynamics with a flat temperature reduction. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/76250-so-hows-are-you-liking-thermal-update/#findComment-885510 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecu Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Risu said: Guess a better question would be can the air conditioner cool gases further than the heat it produces. Fighting thermodynamics with a flat temperature reduction. Well you are the resident expert in diving into the decompiled code, from what I've seen. lol. That would be rather entertaining if it can, though. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/76250-so-hows-are-you-liking-thermal-update/#findComment-885511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphios Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Wasnt this the plan? Using other materials to build you heat producing items? I dont see us (humans) make a NUCLEAR REACTOR out of freaking sandstone now do we?>??? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/76250-so-hows-are-you-liking-thermal-update/#findComment-885633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcurad90 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 5 hours ago, Risu said: Guess a better question would be can the air conditioner cool gases further than the heat it produces. Fighting thermodynamics with a flat temperature reduction. If you cool steam then it will lose more heat than the cooler produce Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/76250-so-hows-are-you-liking-thermal-update/#findComment-885704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoMuffins Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 You risk breaking pipes. Don't do that! 10 hours ago, Risu said: Guess a better question would be can the air conditioner cool gases further than the heat it produces. Fighting thermodynamics with a flat temperature reduction. You cool hydrogen. You can not cool steam since it will condense in the pipes too easily. If buildings can operate at much higher temperature, then steam should be used as the working fluid. Hydrogen has specific heat of 2.4 JK-1g-1. 14 degree of cooling equals 33.6J/g. Given a max packet of 1000g of gas, that's 33600 J. It takes 1s to work the gas so that is a lot of W. A thermo-regulator put out ~84W of heat when operating continously. This heat is applied to the gases around it through the thermal conductivity of the gas and the thermal conductivity of the material of the thermo-regulator. Usually though, the material for the thermo-regulator has like 30x the thermal conductivity of gas. While it would be nice if the math is simply 33600 W - 84W, that is surely not the case. I can say though that with the proper build, one thermo-regulator can cool a large battery (20W), itself, and two hydrogen generators (140W). The most difficult part is getting the hydrogen to flow and the gases to flow around. Gases just don't mix well yet. They're like molasses. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/76250-so-hows-are-you-liking-thermal-update/#findComment-885826 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octyabr Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Did anyone said Molasses? Spoiler Regarding the thermal/heat capacity, it confuses me that I feel that the gram should be at the end (J/K/g or Joule per Kelvin per gram instead of Joule per gram per Kelvin?) Is it a typo or is it something I'm missing? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/76250-so-hows-are-you-liking-thermal-update/#findComment-885863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoMuffins Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 13 minutes ago, Octyabr said: Regarding the thermal/heat capacity, it confuses me that I feel that the gram should be at the end (J/K/g or Joule per Kelvin per gram instead of Joule per gram per Kelvin?) Is it a typo or is it something I'm missing? I fixed my units. Feel better? It's really Joule per Kelvin-gram Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/76250-so-hows-are-you-liking-thermal-update/#findComment-885872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octyabr Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Oh, thanks I feel more relieved since I've forgotten most of this physics stuff. The think I like most about this update is the better memory management: The game doesn't hang anymore, clicking on cots, massage tables or mess stations doesn't make the game unresponsive for ~3 seconds and loads extremely fast. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/76250-so-hows-are-you-liking-thermal-update/#findComment-885901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoMuffins Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I get inexplicable sluggishness with scrolling and panning the play area. Zooming out while panning seems to make it go away temporarily. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/76250-so-hows-are-you-liking-thermal-update/#findComment-885949 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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