What is the contribution of each character to the combo?

[Begeesy]

1 hour ago, ItsPizzaTime said:

That's great and all but t2 magic is purely RNG, if you're unlucky and you don't find a totally normal tree or treeguard then you're not going to be rushing supercharge nearly as fast as a Woodie could locate ruins. Yes its more than possible to rush these things as early as you say but if you want a guaranteed "do it ASAP" method Woodie is the closest thing there is. I truly believe that WX is the best ruins raider but I've been in plenty of games where woodies have gone into the ruins with the bare necessities and pinged a thulecite crown around day 5. Other than this he really doesn't have anything major going for him besides his increased chopping speed (which with Waxwell now being playable has a bit of competition in terms of who is better) and maybe the minion time increase if you're doing super large scale woodcutting with pigs. This combined with the fact that we have the ability to copy maps and give them to others I can't see why Woodie is vastly inferior when it comes to scouting the ruins fast, especially in terms of most play sessions where people play till maybe the end of winter and then leave, this saves a lot of time for others and its because of how early he is capable of doing it in comparison to WX that it is considered at all.

I hear ya, but Woodie is only faster if your goal is to get like 2 thulecite crown in 5 days which is definitely not worth whereas Wx doesn't plateaus, can mass produce them, and is less risky. Which goes with my new point, Woodie being essentially passive to nightmares hurts him in the end, running out of nightmare fuel to craft recipes. Recipes usually have a 1:1 thulecite:nightmare fuel ratio meaning he has to kill 2 nightmares per 3 thulecite used not to mention him having a backpack slot(wood armor). Also, since he didn't get tier 2 science for lantern, he almost can't fight at all in the ruins unless he's beaver which I think we can all agree is impractical. On the otherhand, Wx essentially kills two birds with one stone how he kills chess pieces for gears and nightmare fuel and how he kills nightmares as they appear whist exploring the ruins.

t2 magic isn't purely rng, 2 dark forests are guaranteed to spawn with at least 1 living tree in them. Also, you can always chop thin trees as you explore, giving you a 50% chance of getting a treeguard after 52 hits. 52 hits only giving Woodie 18 wood with 11 pinecones rounded assuming he only chops mature trees, Woodie would have to do way more considering his wood hunger depletes as he chops and needs a good amount of wood armor. Now, how fast you find said things is somewhat rng but world regeneration do have patterns you can seek. If anything, finding ruins day 3 is more rng based than t2 magic.

[ElMilojita]

4 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Of course there are many ways to accomplish the same things. Technically speaking, it probably isn't best way, but rushing on day 2 to a cave as a beaver and start running around like a maniac, is challenging, dangerous, and a lot of fun.

As it was mentioned before, if you survived the crazy trip, you will have a big advantage when you decide to actually go exploring with equipment or friends, since most of the underworld map will be explored for you, and you will know most of the cave's exits as well. I started doing this because I like living in caves, and I like knowing where is the best place to set base.

Also Woodie's "real" hunger meter does not decrease while you are in werebeaver form, meaning that you don't really need "human" food for the first days. His log meter decreases very slowly, and can be recharged by simply nibbling on objects, such as rocks or mushtrees, essentially alowing you to explore for as much as you can survive dodging shadow creatures.

I did not know Woodie's real hunger doesn't decrease while you're in werebeaver form! That sounds really OP. I thought he still would starve meanwhile he's in that current form, many youtubers has claimed Woodie still actually starves. I've mained Woodie and Waxwell. But I always have had more feeling towards Woodie since I like how flexible it is to single handedly chop tree with zero additional items like nightmare fuel because switching puppets is pretty costly; Well this doesn't really affect me as Waxwell because I always have four shadow puppets out and go easily insane with just 40 max sanity, I usually remove one puppet when I have to have a bigger sanity pool for like reading wickerbottom books. I'm definitely going to experiment more with Woodie's werebeaver form since he doesn't starve at all.

 

[ElMilojita]

4 hours ago, Begeesy said:

 

t2 magic isn't purely rng, 2 dark forests are guaranteed to spawn with at least 1 living tree in them. Also, you can always chop thin trees as you explore, giving you a 50% chance of getting a treeguard after 52 hits. 52 hits only giving Woodie 18 wood with 11 pinecones rounded assuming he only chops mature trees, Woodie would have to do way more considering his wood hunger depletes as he chops and needs a good amount of wood armor. Now, how fast you find said things is somewhat rng but world regeneration do have patterns you can seek. If anything, finding ruins day 3 is more rng based than t2 magic.

I believe it's a bonus in a dark forest for Woodie to become Werebeaver since it is the fastest chopping machine ever. Woodie can get one stack if done right or 30 pinecones incredibly fast in one transformation inside a dark forest. I've done this before in Day 1 during the night if I'm lucky enough to find a dark forest by then. I just don't see how WX78 can spawn a treeguard as fast as Woodie taking account if he transforms to chop trees. 

[Mr.Tarunio]

On 1/14/2017 at 8:16 AM, loled said:

Wx, well....nothing unless bugged with end is neigh.

He is the same as wilson but 50 lower base sanity and a petty down side of weak rain damage. He can also spam hearts when fully geared.

On 1/14/2017 at 8:16 AM, loled said:

In my opinion most of them dont bring something unique. Example, wx being tanky is irrelevant, while his speed is situational unless wickerbottom.

You don't need a wicker to get overcharged, I have been playing for a long time without any wickers, a substitution to this is using geese for free charge (I have gotten a full yearof charge by this and can go back to spring farming) and free nightmare fuel if you bring a hambat.

[DVGMedia]

hmm tbh i feel wx has the least contribution to the group if you play him to his max cause most of what is seen is that he depends mostly on the group  for his contribution besides with how dst now a group of six can have the whole map covered and shared even before wx gets a charge which puts his exploration to shame. And besides you can basically get a beefalo at the start that runs about the same speed as him charged with a cane  and explore the map that way . So, in theory wx is only for selfish players

[ShadowDuelist]

10 hours ago, ColombianCam said:

That sounds really OP.

I don't think it is, it's heavily countered by the huge sanity drain.

If anything, I'd like the werebeaver to have a few buffs (discussed in other threads) such as being able to keep the last hat or helmet equipped and working you had as woodie, when you transform, or that other players can equip you a hat/helmet, the same way you can with pigs or bunnymen. Also being able to restore (at least in tiny bits, lets say 2hp/log) the health by eating logs (ONLY as a beaver, NOT as woodie's human form).

Woodie is an underrated char really, despite maybe not being "the best" at some things, he's still pretty cool and fun.

[Mday]

On 1/25/2017 at 4:42 AM, Begeesy said:

So it just off it being possible makes it applicable for being the best? I never said was it was impossible. compare this to WX

Have premade science tier 2 and magic tier 1 and rush armor and living logs with basic resources. You don't need to worry about stats because gears are plentiful in ruins. After you get 3 purple gems from ruins go to the overworld to charge yourself to 1.5x speed, putting beaver's speed in shame. After you go back to the caves, you can basically live there, collecting everything your heart desire. And thanks to the logs you collected, you can duplicate thulicite as you please.

For those whining about the time of prep required, I once rushed both teir 2 magic and science at beginning of day 5 but let's say you're not good as me at rushing. That's when his immunity to freezing when overcharged and no stale penalty (if you decide not to solely eat gears) perks comes in.

You spend 5 days getting magic and science. And you are calling it a rush.

I guess Joe totally did it wrong then:C

He should have use WX.

And Let me remind you of what you've said eariler

Quote

Impractical because you can't use nor explore map. And whats the point if you're not collecting stuff in the ruins?

 

[Begeesy]

22 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

As it was mentioned before, if you survived the crazy trip, you will have a big advantage when you decide to actually go exploring with equipment or friends, since most of the underworld map will be explored for you, and you will know most of the cave's exits as well. I started doing this because I like living in caves, and I like knowing where is the best place to set base.

If we're including teams i could use end is nigh since it only requires 1 blue and 2 red gems which can be gathered from the mosaic, making only one trip required.

41 minutes ago, Mday said:

You spend 5 days getting magic and science. And you are calling it a rush.

I guess Joe totally did it wrong then:C

He should have use WX.

It's people like you that just be going to the ruins to go there, you'll be lucky if you get 2 thul weapons or armor in the chest. Everyone needs magic for ruins, living logs are a requirement for duplicating thulecite with green gems; it just happens that Wx can kill 2 birds with one stone by also using logs for charge.

15 hours ago, EsaiXD said:

hmm tbh i feel wx has the least contribution to the group if you play him to his max cause most of what is seen is that he depends mostly on the group  for his contribution besides with how dst now a group of six can have the whole map covered and shared even before wx gets a charge which puts his exploration to shame. And besides you can basically get a beefalo at the start that runs about the same speed as him charged with a cane  and explore the map that way . So, in theory wx is only for selfish players

We are talking about the caves and you might as well use wolfgang for his speed to avoid the resource extensive and unreliable beefalo.

[Mday]

1 minute ago, Begeesy said:

It's people like you that just be going to the ruins to go there, you'll be lucky if you get 2 thul weapons or armor in the chest. Everyone needs magic for ruins, living logs are a requirement for duplicating thulecite with green gems; it just happen that Wx can kill 2 birds with one stone by also using logs for charge.

When ShadowDuelist made his first post, did he mention anything about "Everyone needs magic for ruins" and so on? Nope.

All he said is that

Quote

Another interesting thing: Woodie as a beaver can be a great cheap cave explorer and find the ruins as early as day 3(my current record)

to which your respond is

Quote

And whats the point if you're not collecting stuff in the ruins?

And we just wana tell you that form our experience, woodie can collect stuff in the ruins. The pro woodie I know of, don't just loot the chest, but also clear the APS and craft stuff from there before he head back to surface.

You can keep denying these fact for all I care. If I were you thou I will try it out myself and see if I can pull it off just like all the other pro woodies out there.

[thistownneedsguns]

Willow is somehow useless.. her lighter needs a rework and be buffed. she would be more fun to play.

[Arlesienne]

15 minutes ago, thistownneedsguns said:

Willow is somehow useless.. her lighter needs a rework and be buffed. she would be more fun to play.

Every time some guy says X Is Useless - even more so in regard to Willow - Aunt Arles, bit by bit, dies inside.

#DefendYourAuntie

[Destros09]

4 minutes ago, Arlesienne said:

Every time some guy says X Is Useless - even more so in regard to Willow - Aunt Arles, bit by bit, dies inside.

#DefendYourAuntie

Willow isn't the best but can be extremely useful if your playing with reputable people. Basically the willow nerf and universal hate for willow came from trolls and greifers

[thistownneedsguns]

24 minutes ago, Arlesienne said:

Every time some guy says X Is Useless - even more so in regard to Willow - Aunt Arles, bit by bit, dies inside.

#DefendYourAuntie

everything you listed is nothing special, ashes and this stuff is not hard to get, her lighter is probably the worst in the whole game.. its better to use other sources for light when exploring the map. bernie is the only useful thing .. but like you said, for people who don't know how to fight nightmares. i'm not even saying she is comp. trash but with some changes she would be more fun to play and it seems unfair that wigfrid can build these nice helmets while her kit is so weak. 

[Electroely]

18 minutes ago, thistownneedsguns said:

everything you listed is nothing special, ashes and this stuff is not hard to get, her lighter is probably the worst in the whole game.. its better to use other sources for light when exploring the map. bernie is the only useful thing .. but like you said, for people who don't know how to fight nightmares. i'm not even saying she is comp. trash but with some changes she would be more fun to play and it seems unfair that wigfrid can build these nice helmets while her kit is so weak. 

They really should just make it so that she has fire resistance, her lighter doesn't run out of durability when she's using it and other players can use the lighter to cook aswell (which I believe isn't possible, but I may be wrong)

[Arlesienne]

5 hours ago, thistownneedsguns said:

everything you listed is nothing special, ashes and this stuff is not hard to get, her lighter is probably the worst in the whole game.. its better to use other sources for light when exploring the map. bernie is the only useful thing .. but like you said, for people who don't know how to fight nightmares. i'm not even saying she is comp. trash but with some changes she would be more fun to play and it seems unfair that wigfrid can build these nice helmets while her kit is so weak. 

Any sufficiently advanced player can become the ultimate nomad with Willow, it just takes skill and understanding of the game. Just as Wes secures you a veteran, Willow is his female equivalent at the moment. And why? Because she is a beast in singleplayer. I'm trying hard to lose with her in DS and I can't. The infinite lighter means immunity from Charlie, no problems with sanity as there's literally no downside to burning things in a world you're absolutely alone in where you don't even take direct fire damage (blessedly you can still overheat), and you even get this unique item back in every Adventure Mode chapter. Klei nerfed her in multiplayer over a rather stretched complaint about griefers while making a torch is deliberately a no-brainer since that's the bare minimum to survive the first night. Personally I feel a nerf would have been much better in DS.

4 hours ago, Electroely said:

They really should just make it so that she has fire resistance, her lighter doesn't run out of durability when she's using it and other players can use the lighter to cook aswell (which I believe isn't possible, but I may be wrong)

Fire resistance for a longer time, then minimal damage (I set it at 1% on my servers). A lighter with durability, but refuelable, Bernie (ideally a faster one). Still cooking, at least for Willow (adding the chef tag may be a bit too OP, @SuperDavid, what do you think?). No bringing back starting fires when insane, because this endangers every person on the server, not just you (I say I can suffer from my mistakes, others shouldn't). No idea about freezing when insane.

[Begeesy]

22 hours ago, Mday said:

When ShadowDuelist made his first post, did he mention anything about "Everyone needs magic for ruins" and so on? Nope.

All he said is that

to which your respond is

And we just wana tell you that form our experience, woodie can collect stuff in the ruins. The pro woodie I know of, don't just loot the chest, but also clear the APS and craft stuff from there before he head back to surface.

You can keep denying these fact for all I care. If I were you thou I will try it out myself and see if I can pull it off just like all the other pro woodies out there.

Just off the fact you don't use green gems i know you don't """"clear"""" the ruins and as I stated earlier you won't have enough nightmare fuel if you happen to get a lot of thul because being passive isn't gonna give you nightmare fuel. THIS IS CLEARING RUINS:

This lost soul needs enlightenment, not me.  Duplicating thul is literally a $50 for $500 scam. More specifically, 5 thul 7 fuel 2 green gems 1 living log for 15 thul and 10 fuel. Meaning each green gem is 5 thul and 1.5 fuel since living logs aren't a limiting factor if you got magic.

yea its cute that woodie can obtain thul armor the fastest with hard skill but why work harder when you can work smarter.

[thistownneedsguns]

5 hours ago, Arlesienne said:

Any sufficiently advanced player can become the ultimate nomad with Willow, it just takes skill and understanding of the game. Just as Wes secures you a veteran, Willow is his female equivalent at the moment. And why? Because she is a beast in singleplayer. I'm trying hard to lose with her in DS and I can't. The infinite lighter means immunity from Charlie, no problems with sanity as there's literally no downside to burning things in a world you're absolutely alone in where you don't even take direct fire damage (blessedly you can still overheat), and you even get this unique item back in every Adventure Mode chapter. Klei nerfed her in multiplayer over a rather stretched complaint about griefers while making a torch is deliberately a no-brainer since that's the bare minimum to survive the first night. Personally I feel a nerf would have been much better in DS.

 

yea nice you think she is a beast in singleplayer.. but since this section is called "dont starve together" i am not talking about DS. 

willow just needs some changes for DST to be more useful and fun to play. when i play willow in DST people never ask me for bernie or my superior lighter.. while when i play wigfrid i'm always busy with building helmets, in the beginning for everyone, later mostly for newer player. 

[Mday]

11 hours ago, Begeesy said:

Just off the fact you don't use green gems i know you don't """"clear"""" the ruins and as I stated earlier you won't have enough nightmare fuel if you happen to get a lot of thul because being passive isn't gonna give you nightmare fuel. THIS IS CLEARING RUINS:

This lost soul needs enlightenment, not me.  Duplicating thul is literally a $50 for $500 scam. More specifically, 5 thul 7 fuel 2 green gems 1 living log for 15 thul and 10 fuel. Meaning each green gem is 5 thul and 1.5 fuel since living logs aren't a limiting factor if you got magic.

yea its cute that woodie can obtain thul armor the fastest with hard skill but why work harder when you can work smarter.

Pretty sure it is "collecting stuff in the ruins " that we were talking about, not "clear the ruin":D. Try harder and I will keep reminding you on each and every post you make from now on, with a direct quote or screenshot of you saying that exact line of course.

 

"Just off the fact you don't use green gems"? Really?

On the contrary it seems that you holds the assumption that all woodie can't get the gems when doing the earlier ruin exploring strat. Which in turns shows us how much of a DST pro you are.

 

And yes it is cute that some charged wx need thul armor. Many of us are so noob that all we can do is wear a logsuit and stick with it.

Cause you know, speaking of "fastest" "hard skill" "smarter" and etc, nothing beat a charged wx wearing a thul armor. Totally the way to go.

 

This kid reminds me of the dude who argue about darts being too expensive to craft.

[Begeesy]

17 hours ago, Mday said:

Pretty sure it is "collecting stuff in the ruins " that we were talking about, not "clear the ruin":D. Try harder and I will keep reminding you on each and every post you make from now on, with a direct quote or screenshot of you saying that exact line of course.

No, it's "looting chests in the maze "for you, check your privilege. Don't ever compare looting a rng wood armor and spear to collecting stuff in the ruins for guaranteed thul and gems. I literally avoid the maze for the trouble and the rng low reward it is, even for a geared up WX. And again, for the risk that is presented, you might as well clear the ruins or half of it.

17 hours ago, Mday said:

"Just off the fact you don't use green gems"? Really?

On the contrary it seems that you holds the assumption that all woodie can't get the gems when doing the earlier ruin exploring strat. Which in turns shows us how much of a DST pro you are.

15% 3-6 green gems for ancient guardian and 2.3% (lower chance than chopping 2 trees and are less plentiful) 1 green gem for regular chest. Even if you got 6 gems, you couldn't even utilize it all since you're not duplicating. You need 13 fuel and 12 thul for EACH green gem, you're not getting that much from thul fragments.

17 hours ago, Mday said:

And yes it is cute that some charged wx need thul armor. Many of us are so noob that all we can do is wear a logsuit and stick with it.

Why are you going to the ruins for the best gear then?! This is just your " in the end, it doesn't matter" excuse.

17 hours ago, Mday said:

Cause you know, speaking of "fastest" "hard skill" "smarter" and etc, nothing beat a charged wx wearing a thul armor. Totally the way to go.

Highest stats in the game✔️️

Fastest reliable base speed✔️️

Best armor in game✔️️

Best healing in game✔️️

Beginning skill pays off end game✔️️

It says something when you try to be sarcastic but it actually comes out not. Oh wait, I forgot that the non-upgradable beaver is the way to go, that's how you do sarcasm.

[Mday]

2 hours ago, Begeesy said:

No, it's "looting chests in the maze "for you, check your privilege. Don't ever compare looting a rng wood armor and spear to collecting stuff in the ruins for guaranteed thul and gems. I literally avoid the maze for the trouble and the rng low reward it is, even for a geared up WX. And again, for the risk that is presented, you might as well clear the ruins or half of it.

15% 3-6 green gems for ancient guardian and .023 (lower chance than chopping 2 trees and are less plentiful) 1 green gem for regular chest. Even if you got 6 gems, you couldn't even utilize it all since you're not duplicating. You need 13 fuel and 12 thul for EACH green gem, you're not getting that much from thul fragments.

Why are you going to the ruins for the best gear then?! This is just your " in the end, it doesn't matter" excuse.

Highest stats in the game✔️️

Fastest reliable base speed✔️️

Best armor in game✔️️

Best healing in game✔️️

Beginning skill pays off end game✔️️

It says something when you try to be sarcastic but it actually comes out not. Oh wait, I forgot that the not up-gradable beaver is the way to go, that's how you do sarcasm.

More like your excuse of "I dont know woodie can do that but lets make up some crap to cover it up"

[Begeesy]

1 hour ago, Mday said:

More like your excuse of "I dont know woodie can do that but lets make up some crap to cover it up"

This could've been applied to my counter if I wasn't spitting out FACTS and statistics. My facts are still standing, maybe whip up something from the drawing board that actually addresses my facts.

[fimmatek]

Please guys, rename this thread to "WX is considered OP?... Why!?..."

[LadyD]

Remember to stay on topic, be friendly and polite. If you can't agree then just move on to another thread and another discussion, everyone is entitled to their opinion. 

[56933043043]

On 25/1/2017 at 4:14 PM, Begeesy said:

Everyone needs magic for ruins, living logs are a requirement for duplicating thulecite with green gems;

.

That's funny, I don't remember there being a locked door to the ruins that says: "Please insert (1) shadow manipulator to proceed."

On 26/1/2017 at 3:51 PM, Begeesy said:

 living logs aren't a limiting factor if you got magic.

 

How?

Can you use any of the magic stations to duplicate living logs? No.

Can you use one to craft items with high living log costs to make duplication easier? Because you can craft items of the same cost on a pseudoscience station.

Are deconstruction staves crafted using a magic station? No, they require an ancient pseudoscience station.

If anything, crafting a shadow manipulator would reduce the amount of living logs you have available for crafting deconstruction staves...being a limiting factor because you have level 2 magic.

Are living logs required to create the deconstruction staves? Yes. Is a magic station REQUIRED to create them? No. Does a magic station make the duplication process faster? No.

(Do note that taking a shadow manipulator or at least a prestihatitator down with you to the ruins is a pretty good idea, since gems are quite plentiful down there and you can use them to craft a couple of helpful items, such as ice staves and especially life giving amulets. Gold, red gems and nightmare fuel are so common down there that you can make more than enough amulets for a reckless trip.)

 

[Begeesy]

6 hours ago, fimmatek said:

Please guys, rename this thread to "WX is considered OP?... Why!?..."

I would happily take this to the DM, but everyone has this inner desire to expose me publicly, apparently.

3 hours ago, Sketched_Philo said:

Can you use any of the magic stations to duplicate living logs? No.

Can you use one to craft items with high living log costs to make duplication easier? Because you can craft items of the same cost on a pseudoscience station.

Are deconstruction staves crafted using a magic station? No, they require an ancient pseudoscience station.

If anything, crafting a shadow manipulator would reduce the amount of living logs you have available for crafting deconstruction staves...being a limiting factor because you have level 2 magic.

Are living logs required to create the deconstruction staves? Yes. Is a magic station REQUIRED to create them? No. Does a magic station make the duplication process faster? No.

First of all, I wouldn't duplicate something as renewable as living logs.

I'm not saying that you need magic for duplication it just that they both require living logs and if you have living logs you most likely have magic.

Shadow manipulator itself only take one log(hammer) or none if you use the remainder 20% juice left from duplicating(but not duplicating the logs itself, just reusing it).

Living logs aren't equally scattered everywhere, most are densely packed in the dark forest. Therefore if you find a living tree(3), you are more likely to find another(3), not to mention the thin trees everywhere making it easier for a treeguard(6).

The green gem:living log ratio is 11:5 rounded down. If you happen to get 19 green gems for 9 living logs, more power to you but you're only proving my point that you need deconstruction staves as if you just used construction amulets, it would've required 247 fuel and 228 thul. And that's if you craft helmets, if you craft chest armor multiply thul by 1.417.