Canaries don't drop feathers?!

[Mday]

We all know that wicker trick. However in my opinion, Wicker being able to farm reeds really doesn't has anything to do with darts. It just means that wicker can gather reeds and feather abit more efficient than other characters.

Webber can farm spiders too, does it means that any spiders related item need some changes too? Wolfgang can solo DF by kiting, does it means that gems and scale need some changes too?

I am not saying it is worth making darts to kill that deerclops. I am saying that it helps, and when you have the darts on hand **already** and you want deerclops dead in the quickest way possible, darts is one of the option. Wolfgang at full hunger can deal 200 damage per dart. Short 5 at it you have already taken out 1/6 of deerclops Health. After that you can just tank with a hambat and a log suit. Without the darts you gona need more armor. Yes this same wolfgang could have just kited the deerclop to dead too. But that will make the fight last longer. Sure you spend even more time to get the material in making darts, but then that is just what you do when you have the spare time. 

[Lumina]

@EuedeAdodooedoe

I don't want to quote a so long message and i don't want to answer every single detail that you persist to consider as something so important that radical change are needed. I think the darts are fine even if not perfect, i think that you could have some of them without too much efforts, i think that there is already some diversity in game and that making dart over powered will not serve diversity.

I think that you don't need to spam every topic about an update more or less related to change your want to harass people that disagree with you, just because they aren't seeing the thing the same way than you are.

For me, darts are ok. Boomerang is cheaper, but you need to catch it without being hurt, dart are riskless. Spear is cheaper, but you need either to kite or have an armor, or both. If i want some darts, i could obtain ingredients with some efforts, and often i got some of them for free.

They just require science machine, so it's more simple than ice staff/fire staff or some complex stuff you mentionned, so they are in a good state of balance, if you take in account all the elements and not just the damage and the time.

Now, it's just my point of view. I don't expect you to suddently find the dart useful, just to understand that they are fine for some players, maybe most of players, and so maybe you could give them some respect in the way you are asserting that dart is useless like if people are stupid to not understand this simple thing.

 

 

[Mday]

Also I just wana point out that:

Quote

BUT they also require prior knowledge to various things, which is essentially in the professional category

This line, apply to every single item in the game. Simple task such as catching rabbits with traps just to make a meal can be hard for noobs. I have seen people collecting carrots and baiting traps all over the place, for he was trying to catch that damn rabbit. Are you gona say that rabbit is too hard for noob?

This game is all about learning and becoming the pro at all slots of things. Even getting the living logs, there are smart ways and not so smart ways to do it. If you play as a wicker and you find a reeds trap, you find a way to clear that trap and put that into production. If you aren't playing wickers or if you don't know how to clear the reeds trap you would have to collect your reeds one at a time. It is all your choice. I dont know why you want every character to have the same level of access to reeds/ darts and such.

If you really have to bring wicker's ability to this, then even the most basic material such as grass, twigs, flowers aren't balanced. That eyeplant trick can also collect grass/twigs/mass produce homeless bees, petals and dark petals, nightmare fuel. 

[Mday]

Just use console command to get like 10 stacks of darts and run around with it. It should shows you how imbalance it is to have that kinda of access to darts.

[Mday]

Quote

"How about early game you may ask? Early game I am too busy building my base and I hardy have to aggro passive mobs. A boomerang is all I need for saving noobs form shadows creatures, and killing birds/ rabbit for a quick morsel. " <= EXACTLY one of my points!

Yes it is your point, and I am telling you that I am happy about this. I don't need darts early game and I don't find it fun to one shot spiders with darts all the way until late game. The game build around this idea of melee based combat and you don't need the staff to tell you this. You can see it already from how the game is balanced. Darts was added on 27 Nov 2012 and while there were some changes it was never suppose to be something the player can replace a spear with. Just go ahead and ask everyone you meet on DST, does it make senses to have 8 darts from 2 reeds 1 tooth and 1 feather. 

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

1 hour ago, Lumina said:

@EuedeAdodooedoe

I don't want to quote a so long message and i don't want to answer every single detail that you persist to consider as something so important that radical change are needed. I think the darts are fine even if not perfect, i think that you could have some of them without too much efforts, i think that there is already some diversity in game and that making dart over powered will not serve diversity.

I think that you don't need to spam every topic about an update more or less related to change your want to harass people that disagree with you, just because they aren't seeing the thing the same way than you are.

For me, darts are ok. Boomerang is cheaper, but you need to catch it without being hurt, dart are riskless. Spear is cheaper, but you need either to kite or have an armor, or both. If i want some darts, i could obtain ingredients with some efforts, and often i got some of them for free.

They just require science machine, so it's more simple than ice staff/fire staff or some complex stuff you mentionned, so they are in a good state of balance, if you take in account all the elements and not just the damage and the time.

Now, it's just my point of view. I don't expect you to suddently find the dart useful, just to understand that they are fine for some players, maybe most of players, and so maybe you could give them some respect in the way you are asserting that dart is useless like if people are stupid to not understand this simple thing.

 

 

I know what you mean, and I said it multiple times, even on my suggestion topic about darts. They can become overpowered very easily. But currently, they're very much nerfed to the ground... very. I'm more about trying to find a way so that they aren't so nerfed, but aren't overpowered either.

What?! I'm not harassing anyone! I'm just trying to defend my point with reason, what "harassment" ar eyou talking about? Is disagreeing suddenly harassment? Wtf?

Catching a boomerang isn't that hard and it doesn't deal that much damage even if you don't catch it. Just wear armour at all times and you'll be fine. Wearing armour at nearly all times and carrying some with you is essential for decent survival in the game anyway, so.

Science machine, yeah, I guess they can be obtained a bit quicker. But it's not like getting 4 rabbits, 16 logs and 6 silk is that hard. Early-game you probably won't even encounter any spider queens, so by the time any sprout you'll most likely have the means to make a fire staff (basically setting queens on fire is a very great way of keeping queens from attacking you and spawning spiders as often. With scalemail on or simply 2 hits run you can keep draining her health much quicker than normal). But regardless, the resources required are probably the most important aspect of how reliable and as a result how useful they are.

I am really confused as to why or how you assumed that that is what I was implying. I'm just trying to explain my point, that's all.

1 hour ago, Mday said:

Also I just wana point out that:

This line, apply to every single item in the game. Simple task such as catching rabbits with traps just to make a meal can be hard for noobs. I have seen people collecting carrots and baiting traps all over the place, for he was trying to catch that damn rabbit. Are you gona say that rabbit is too hard for noob?

This game is all about learning and becoming the pro at all slots of things. Even getting the living logs, there are smart ways and not so smart ways to do it. If you play as a wicker and you find a reeds trap, you find a way to clear that trap and put that into production. If you aren't playing wickers or if you don't know how to clear the reeds trap you would have to collect your reeds one at a time. It is all your choice. I dont know why you want every character to have the same level of access to reeds/ darts and such.

If you really have to bring wicker's ability to this, then even the most basic material such as grass, twigs, flowers aren't balanced. That eyeplant trick can also collect grass/twigs/mass produce homeless bees, petals and dark petals, nightmare fuel. 

Nonono, you misunderstood. Perhaps reading the following and then re-reading my previous post will give you a better understanding of my point:

How to get good food from rabbits

1) Make a trap with some twigs and grass you harvest from around

2) put it nearby a rabbit trap

3) chase the rabbit into the trap in such a way so that it doesn't reach its hole (which it will always go to whilst it's running away from you)

4) craft a crock pot (requires 3 cutstone (refine 9 rocks, which can be mined from any rock), 6 charcoal (burn 6 or so trees) and twigs (gather from around)) via standing near science machine (requires 4 rocks, 1 gold (both of which can be obtained from mining gold rocks) and 4 logs (chop down trees with an axe))

5) kill the rabbit and gather 3 carrots and/or berries

6) place the berries/carrots and 

Voila; meatballs

Also, here's some video evidence of how easy it is to learn how to catch rabbits:

And crock pot would require you to just look at the Food tab and then you'd be on the track to figure it out, I bet you.

How to use darts effectively in large/medium amounts

1) Choose Wickerbottom as your character

2) Find swamp and check if you have reed trap (the trap would have a whole bunch of reeds right next to each other, with tentacles around them) in your world (or enable console and type in "c_countprefab("reeds")" to check how many reeds you have in the world. If it's less than 100, you probably don't have the trap). If you don't have it, regenerate your world and start again with choosing Wickerbottom as your character and repeat this until you have found the reed trap.

3) Kill all the tentacles. First you blah blah blah... (you know the drill about combat, I really don't want to write all of this down, so I'm skipping it).

~6) Craft a telelocator staff and craft a telelocator focus. You do this by blah blah blah...

~10) Place the telelocator focus somewhere near the reed trap, but not too close (perhaps 4 or 5 screens away will do it).

~11) Craft stone walls and surround your telelocator focus with them, with a 1 wall gap. You craft the walls by blah blah blah...

~16) Slot three purple gems in your telelocator focus.

~17) Find a Suspicious Dirt Pile and follow it until you find a creature. Check which creature it is. If it's "Warg" or "Varg", cast spell with Telelocator staff on it, so it teleports to the Telelocator Focus.

18) Go to the Varg or Warg and kill a bunch of the hounds he's spawning in and make sure you collect the hounds teeth that he spawns in (by this point you should know how to do good melee combat).

~19) Catch some bees and get a honey comb. You do this by blah blah blah...

~24) When winter rolls around, make sure you're stacked up on honey for taffy; you'll need it for getting the feathers for all the darts!

~25) Kill some blue birds for feathers. You do this by blah blah blah...

~30) When Spring rolls around, make sure you find a lureplant and kill it.

~31) Place the lureplant near the reed trap.

~32) Farm reeds. You do this by blah blah blah... use a glitch, which blah blah blah...

~35) Craft a bunch of blow darts via science machine or alchemy engine (recipe located under Fight Tab). Each dart costs 2 reeds, 1 hound's tooth and 1 azure feather.

~36) Keep killing hounds, farming reeds, stacking up on honey and killing bluebirds every winter to sustain your reed supply.

Voila; a bunch of blowdarts forever... you probably will still need to use melee weapons a lot of the time though, like, when killing Warg hounds and killing blue birds, otherwise you're just wasting your time...

Some things take barely any time to figure out and others take extremely long to figure out. For something as simple as reeds, the reliable method is so cluttered with weird and time-consuming constraints that only someone with good amount of knowledge would be able to use them effectively. Constrast that to, say, using some darts to kill a few pigs and getting all or most of the darts back after they die and it's fairly straight forward. But regardless, that isn't my main point...

1 hour ago, Mday said:

Just use console command to get like 10 stacks of darts and run around with it. It should shows you how imbalance it is to have that kinda of access to darts.

*sigh* ... strawmans, strawmans everywhere: "I know what you mean, and I said it multiple times, even on my suggestion topic about darts. They can become overpowered very easily. But currently, they're very much nerfed to the ground... very. I'm more about trying to find a way so that they aren't so nerfed, but aren't overpowered either."

48 minutes ago, Mday said:

Yes it is your point, and I am telling you that I am happy about this. I don't need darts early game and I don't find it fun to one shot spiders with darts all the way until late game. The game build around this idea of melee based combat and you don't need the staff to tell you this. You can see it already from how the game is balanced. Darts was added on 27 Nov 2012 and while there were some changes it was never suppose to be something the player can replace a spear with. Just go ahead and ask everyone you meet on DST, does it make senses to have 8 darts from 2 reeds 1 tooth and 1 feather. 

I detect 2 strawmans here:

1) I never said anything about me wanting darts being even somewhat reliable early-game

2) Making sense isn't what I've been talking about here either

And I refer to the point I made earlier about the whole balance of dart reliance.

1 hour ago, Mday said:

We all know that wicker trick. However in my opinion, Wicker being able to farm reeds really doesn't has anything to do with darts. It just means that wicker can gather reeds and feather abit more efficient than other characters.

Webber can farm spiders too, does it means that any spiders related item need some changes too? Wolfgang can solo DF by kiting, does it means that gems and scale need some changes too?

I am not saying it is worth making darts to kill that deerclops. I am saying that it helps, and when you have the darts on hand **already** and you want deerclops dead in the quickest way possible, darts is one of the option. Wolfgang at full hunger can deal 200 damage per dart. Short 5 at it you have already taken out 1/6 of deerclops Health. After that you can just tank with a hambat and a log suit. Without the darts you gona need more armor. Yes this same wolfgang could have just kited the deerclop to dead too. But that will make the fight last longer. Sure you spend even more time to get the material in making darts, but then that is just what you do when you have the spare time. 

Factually speaking, Wicker has everything to do with darts, that is, if you want a bunch of them for fairly reliant usage (look back at what I wrote for getting darts to use effectively and a lot of the time). Reeds take quite some time to regrow, but with Wicker, some books and a lureplant with a reed trap in the world, your reed supply can skyrocket, especially if the host is the one that's farming the reeds as Wickerbottom.

Strawman much?

The only way to have darts "on hand" is if you keep killing McTusk who drops one each time you kill him. Otherwise, you have to take your time to actually craft a whole stack of them: one dart, two darts, three darts, four darts... fourty... bloody hell, that only took me like an hour (I'm obviously exaggerating here, it'll probably take you about a minute to craft a stack of darts, but still, that's very boring and time-consuming to just do that!). But if you're mentioning Wolfgang, then it's x2 less, which I guess makes them more effective.

"But that will make the fight last longer" okay, let me ask you a question: would you rather, waste more time overall to make a fight not to last that long or waste less time overall, even if it means killing the giant will take longer? Like, who doesn't like longer battles? Less prep time + more battle time = more fun, does it not?

Oh, and, another point: sometimes, or rather a lot of the time, especially with bosses like the "seasonal" giants (including and especially Dragonfly), using darts will still require you to either dodge their attacks or take damage, because they move as fast as you and whilst you're doing the animation to fire a dart, they'll catch up to you. It's why weather pains did not work well against dragonfly unless you can hold her still per tornado attack.

[Mday]

Didn't I told you already? In a world that last for more than 100 days I will go gather the reeds and craft the darts. I do so to get rid of the tooth and silks. I will use the darts when I have it and when I needed to, otherwise I will just kite as usual. That is how I use the darts and I am fine with the current balance. 

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

6 minutes ago, Mday said:

Didn't I told you already? In a world that last for more than 100 days I will go gather the reeds and craft the darts. I do so to get rid of the tooth and silks. I will use the darts when I have it and when I needed to, otherwise I will just kite as usual. That is how I use the darts and I am fine with the current balance. 

It's called grinding and in this case it's a pretty hefty grind, but who loves grinds? I mean, do you LIKE to gather all the reeds and feathers for the darts? Are you immersed in the game-play when you do so? Or are you doing it as a chose because of, well, you said it the best yourself: "I do so to get rid of the tooth and silks". When really, you could simply feed excess crap to lureplant to recycle it and be done with it, which requires pretty much no grind at all.

[Mday]

I think the issue here is that:

a) I craft darts with resource and time that I can spare. E.g When I already have excess tooth and feather, just chilling by the firepit. You however believe that in order to get these darts players have to be a pro as they need to put in some serious effort.

b) I believe the early game is already very much enjoyable without the darts. You seems to think that melee in itself is boring and you hope to use darts more often.

c) I accept the fact that some items are gota be more prevalent, while others has a very special and limited use. You seems to think that items should all be prevalent.

 

[Mday]

11 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

It's called grinding and in this case it's a pretty hefty grind, but who loves grinds? I mean, do you LIKE to gather all the reeds and feathers for the darts? Are you immersed in the game-play when you do so? Or are you doing it as a chose because of, well, you said it the best yourself: "I do so to get rid of the tooth and silks". When really, you could simply feed excess crap to lureplant to recycle it and be done with it, which requires pretty much no grind at all.

It is grinding when I am not enjoying it, otherwise it is not grinding at all. I would have leave stacks and stacks of silk in my chest or on the floor too. However, when I do go for the crafting of cause I am doing it for it is fun. Knowing that I have a stack of darts ready in my chest can sometime be rather satisfying for me. It is like playing on a pub server. Sometime I feel like I have had enough form all the girefing so I may want to go hide in the ruin and have my own base there like playing a single player games. Sometime I may feel I have had enough loneliness in the ruin and want to build a base on the surface with everyone.

[Mday]

Quote

1) I never said anything about me wanting darts being even somewhat reliable early-game

The way you compare a spear with a blow dart, you do make it sound like a blow dart should be as reliable as a spear.

[Lumina]

11 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

 

What?! I'm not harassing anyone! I'm just trying to defend my point with reason, what "harassment" ar eyou talking about? Is disagreeing suddenly harassment? Wtf?

Because you aren't just "defending your point with reason". You are hammering that something MUST change because it's a bad decision for klei, that darts are useless and pointless, and you are doing that when you are already have done a suggestion about it (nobody agreed to it, by the way).

So it's pretty annoying when explaining to you that darts are ok for most people, you just repeat that no and that you NEEDS a wickerbottom/reeds trap when people prove you that they don't need that, in fact, and use darts and find them ok. You keep saying that darts are useless and pointless, and seem to require a major change when people find the darts ok the way they are.

So, yes, it's harassing, because you can't let it go. Just take some break and try to understand why people, after two topics, are still disagreing with you, instead of saying again and again "it's useless, pointless, must change"

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

36 minutes ago, Mday said:

It is grinding when I am not enjoying it, otherwise it is not grinding at all. I would have leave stacks and stacks of silk in my chest or on the floor too. However, when I do go for the crafting of cause I am doing it for it is fun. Knowing that I have a stack of darts ready in my chest can sometime be rather satisfying for me. It is like playing on a pub server. Sometime I feel like I have had enough form all the girefing so I may want to go hide in the ruin and have my own base there like playing and single player games. Sometime I may feel I have had enough loneliness in the ruin and want to build a base on the surface with everyone.

Would going out of your way to collect reeds and keep crafting darts not get grindy very quickly? I was satisfied when I got a bunch of darts first too, but I got very disappointed when I used up two whole stacks to kill a spider queen, because it takes so long to craft a bunch of them and a whole bunch of resources and time to be able to even craft them. And what do I get for it? Some silk, monster meat, a spider egg and a spider hat... ;_;

44 minutes ago, Mday said:

I think the issue here is that:

a) I craft darts with resource and time that I can spare. E.g When I already have excess tooth and feather, just chilling by the firepit. You however believe that in order to get these darts players have to be a pro as they need to put in some serious effort.

b) I believe the early game is already very much enjoyable without the darts. You seems to think that melee in itself is boring and you hope to use darts more often.

c) I accept the fact that some items are gota be more prevalent, while others has a very special and limited use. You seems to think that items should all be prevalent.

 

a) no, I didn't say players need to be pro to craft them, rather that they need to be pro to efficiently use them a lot of the time (the whole reed farm, warg pen, honey production and bird killing in winter thing that you have to go through to get to a point like that).

b) Yes! It's just whack, whack, whack, whack... it gets boring! There's no different mechanics that you can indulge yourself in to make the game more diverse in combat. It's always just hit this many times and dodge. It's cool at first, but it becomes very repetitive. Having multiple ways of fighting the enemy without some huge grind behind it would keep the immersion, like, you try this, and you try that fighting method and you keep changing, because they're all equally or near-equally effective, but all different in the skill they require as well as the whole method behind them. And darts have the potential to be one of these variants. After all, Klei themselves have been trying to make the game more diverse with variants, right? So why should darts just stay generally inferior weapons/staves, when they can be so much more?

c) Nope, not at all, that is a lie. Lets say, something like compass. I would expect it to be used by players on occasions where they need to find out where others are, like for newbies (which is why I suggested that ithe recipe should require 1 nitre instead of 1 gold, as the only ways of renewably getting gold later on in the game is going into caves and hoping for some or finding pig king, which can defeat the whole purpose of it for newbies on late-game servers. Nitre, on the other hand, is renewable in mosaic due to meteor, which is usually close by portal and none really makes a base there) or simply, but less often being the case, when you're trying to find out where another player is, even if you have the whole map explored and its recipe doesn't much hinder for late-game players to craft one on the go. Things like gardland, an early top hat as well as a very "easy-to-craft top hat" (although picking flowers and getting 60 sanity from just picking them might defeat the purpose of crafting one once you have the resources to craft one) or straw hat and helmets or eyebrella, or pretty parasol and umbrella. Piggy back and Krampus sack. The list goes on and on!

24 minutes ago, Mday said:

The way you compare a spear with a blow dart, you do make it sound like a blow dart should be as reliable as a spear.

No, you misunderstood my point; my point was that something as easy-to-craft as a spear is more effective in general than a blow dart, which is harder to craft and come by for multiple uses and due to the immense amount of time you need to collect a lot of these resources, be it trying to get them effective in usage or simply trying to use them well without this.

 

19 minutes ago, Lumina said:

Because you aren't just "defending your point with reason". You are hammering that something MUST change because it's a bad decision for klei, that darts are useless and pointless, and you are doing that when you are already have done a suggestion about it (nobody agreed to it, by the way).

So it's pretty annoying when explaining to you that darts are ok for most people, you just repeat that no and that you NEEDS a wickerbottom/reeds trap when people prove you that they don't need that, in fact, and use darts and find them ok. You keep saying that darts are useless and pointless, and seem to require a major change when people find the darts ok the way they are.

So, yes, it's harassing, because you can't let it go. Just take some break and try to understand why people, after two topics, are still disagreing with you, instead of saying again and again "it's useless, pointless, must change"

But I have come to understand why people don't want to have them more useful, which is that in their opinion the darts are fine for having as occasional use for rare occasions and I see why you would think that. But I am trying to express the potential that the darts could have with the game if they were made a bit more reliable, because:

"Yes! It's just whack, whack, whack, whack... it gets boring! There's no different mechanics that you can indulge yourself in to make the game more diverse in combat. It's always just hit this many times and dodge. It's cool at first, but it becomes very repetitive. Having multiple ways of fighting the enemy without some huge grind behind it would keep the immersion there for longer, like, you try this, and you try that fighting method and you keep changing, because they're all equally or near-equally effective, but all different in the skill they require as well as the whole method behind them. And darts have the potential to be one of these variants. After all, Klei themselves have been trying to make the game more diverse with variants, right? So why should darts just stay generally inferior weapons/staves, when they can be so much more?"

Darts won't give you much advantage as it stands in the game. They will, a little bit during combat, but if you stack up what you need to get them in order to be able to fight with them effectively and the fact that you'd simply be better off without using them generally, well, are they really great for what they are? Same goes for bee mines, but that's a whole another topic.

And wait... so you're saying that if somebody keeps talking about something a lot, on an online forum that anyone can read or dismiss counts as harassment? ... Wait... what? Don't tell me... I think I'll meander away from here... I've had this really bad vibe about the forum the whole time and the vibe, step by step keeps being assured... Are you one of those people who think that "online harassment", though digital letters on a screen is something that's genuinely possible and is a thing?

One of you mentioned earlier that there are some things that you think should really be changed/rebalanced and whatever else, but not darts. Out of curiosity, what are those things, how do you think they should be rebalanced and why do you think they should be rebalanced? Do these reasons differ from darts and to what extent?

[Mday]

 

I really dont get this guy's reasoning.

Quote

I think perhaps it would be good if you could simply craft a whole bunch more darts than just one out of the materials you do now, like lets say 8 or so and for the darts to stack up to 40 (that is if the recipe stays the same) and see where it goes from there. You still need all the original ingredients, just less of them to get more "durability" out of darts. 

So effectively he wants to be able to craft 8 darts from 2 reeds 1 tooth 1 feather. Am I right here? 

Now if I have not misinterpret the above, then how is it a strawmans when I ask him to spawn 10 stacks of darts and try them early game. In doing this test you get to experience how it feels when darts has more "durability". That is what I was trying to say there.

 

Now lets look at this together

Quote

1) I never said anything about me wanting darts being even somewhat reliable early-game

Did he? Or did he not? Lets go back and reread some of his comment again

Quote

You still need all the original ingredients, just less of them to get more "durability" out of darts. 

So he has this self invented concept of "durability" for ranged weapon. 

Quote

Yes, the game might be better with not having too much shooting, but these things exist. Regardless of how often you use them, they still exist and can be used. And if they exist, it's best if their existence is more prevalent in the game.

He also mention that dart should be "more prevalent in the game".

And when Lumina tells him that :

Quote

You don't need to have a whole bunch, just enough for your need.

He tell us this:

Quote

Thing is, they aren't reliable or at all necessary to make things easier overall. The trouble you go through to get some and then waste them on something you can simply and usually will anyways fight via melee anyway.

So how is this guy not asking for the dart to be "more reliable"?

Now I feel like I have been talking to trump (or hillary) for a sec there.

[Lumina]

1 minute ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

 

One of you mentioned earlier that there are some things that you think should really be changed/rebalanced and whatever else, but not darts. Out of curiosity, what are those things, how do you think they should be rebalanced and why do you think they should be rebalanced? Do these reasons differ from darts and to what extent?

For me, i don't mind dart being rebalanced, like i don't mind other stuff getting rebalance. It's just not needed/urgent, i'm not against it.

What i could consider a good thing...

 

Making stuff renewable.

I don't like non-renewable stuff. The idea of something with a max number (like thulecite) or that could disappears from the world is something i don't like.

So i hope that things like beehive will become renewable (with the update it will be the case i think), or mandrake (already the case maybe), and maybe a way to make things back in the world if they have disappears, if you make some effort for this.

Not something crucial or urgent, just something i would like. Also, finding a good way to respawn things is a lot of work.

 

More cave and summer content.

I don't like exploring cave, because i always feel they are so big, there is so little to find here, and you have to fight so much for not real gain that i don't think it's worth the efforts. I don't like summer because i don't like losing resource (cf part about non-renewable stuff), and there is not, for me, something worth the risk of seeing an entire part of the world burning.

I would like seeing more reasons to go in cave than making a lantern, and reason to explore the world in summer instead of staying in my base fearing that all the world will turn into ash if i leave my camp.

It's not that big a problem. Reading forum, a lot of people are enjoying cave, so they aren't useless (and now i spend some of the summer in cave, and it's ok, so not really a big deal)

 

Various things :

Maybe a kind of divining rod, but that will lead you to gears or chess piece (so it will not require gears, of course). In my world, it's sometime tedious to find them, and since gears are really useful, i would like a reliable (even costly) way to find some. But again, not a big deal. (Will suggest it anyway, could be nice)

Reasons to explore the world again time to time. Not only in summer, but often when i know where are the thing, i don't have really reasons to return in some parts of the world. A little like the lureplant : you visited an area, and maybe when you return later, there is something new to discover.

 

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

2 hours ago, Mday said:

 

I really dont get this guy's reasoning.

1) So effectively he wants to be able to craft 8 darts from 2 reeds 1 tooth 1 feather. Am I right here? 

2) Now if I have not misinterpret the above, then how is it a strawmans when I ask him to spawn 10 stacks of darts and try them early game. In doing this test you get to experience how it feels when darts has more "durability". That is what I was trying to say there.

 

Now lets look at this together

3) Did he? Or did he not? Lets go back and reread some of his comment again

4) So he has this self invented concept of "durability" for ranged weapon. 

5) He also mention that dart should be "more prevalent in the game".

6) And when Lumina tells him that :

6) He tell us this:

7) So how is this guy not asking for the dart to be "more reliable"?

8) Now I feel like I have been talking to trump (or hillary) for a sec there.

1) Not exactly, that was just a thought, an example if you will of how darts could be made more reliable. If you read my suggestion topic, I've brought up two differing ideas up. I rethink things through a lot, so it sometimes goes that I can disagree with the points I made earlier.

2) You kind of have, but I digress.

3) No I didn't. I'd like you to pay attention to "early-game". I never said anything about EARLY game. More reliable in general (e.g. mid or even late-game), yes, more reliable early game, no.

4) By "durability", I mean uses, or, stack durab... just how did you not understand this? It's not some concept I invented. I myself even explicitly put the word in "".

5) Yes. Although I guess I should take back the " And if they exist, it's best if their existence is more prevalent in the game. " because not everything needs to be; some things are made explicitly for early-game, some explicitly late-game. Darts... you need to know the game well to get a lot of them very quickly, but it's still pretty grindy and there are some very specific conditions you need to meet in order to do this, as I mentioned countless times before and that's kind of what I have a bit of a problem with.

6) Lumina sees darts as they can be used for. I look at them for what they are in comparison to everything else. So, I think this is where the whole kerfuffle went down.

7) I am, but NOT EARLY GAME.

8) No words. I've no idea what you're talking about here. I'm trying to get an understanding here, please don't create flame.

1 hour ago, Lumina said:

For me, i don't mind dart being rebalanced, like i don't mind other stuff getting rebalance. It's just not needed/urgent, i'm not against it.

What i could consider a good thing...

 

Making stuff renewable.

I don't like non-renewable stuff. The idea of something with a max number (like thulecite) or that could disappears from the world is something i don't like.

So i hope that things like beehive will become renewable (with the update it will be the case i think), or mandrake (already the case maybe), and maybe a way to make things back in the world if they have disappears, if you make some effort for this.

Not something crucial or urgent, just something i would like. Also, finding a good way to respawn things is a lot of work.

 

More cave and summer content.

I don't like exploring cave, because i always feel they are so big, there is so little to find here, and you have to fight so much for not real gain that i don't think it's worth the efforts. I don't like summer because i don't like losing resource (cf part about non-renewable stuff), and there is not, for me, something worth the risk of seeing an entire part of the world burning.

I would like seeing more reasons to go in cave than making a lantern, and reason to explore the world in summer instead of staying in my base fearing that all the world will turn into ash if i leave my camp.

It's not that big a problem. Reading forum, a lot of people are enjoying cave, so they aren't useless (and now i spend some of the summer in cave, and it's ok, so not really a big deal)

 

Various things :

Maybe a kind of divining rod, but that will lead you to gears or chess piece (so it will not require gears, of course). In my world, it's sometime tedious to find them, and since gears are really useful, i would like a reliable (even costly) way to find some. But again, not a big deal. (Will suggest it anyway, could be nice)

Reasons to explore the world again time to time. Not only in summer, but often when i know where are the thing, i don't have really reasons to return in some parts of the world. A little like the lureplant : you visited an area, and maybe when you return later, there is something new to discover.

 

And I would agree with that. It's not urgent for the game currently at all, but it's something that has potential but has been left to rot more or less. And I feel like that kind of sucks. I really would like the game to be more variant in combat, as mentioned before and darts are something that could bring this to the table. Or may be I simply have a personal affection for darts

Making stuff renewable - couldn't agree more. Worlds get absolutely obliterated with stuff being non-renewable. Too many things and even important ones (like bee hives and pig houses) have the potential to be eradicated from a world forever. Turf too. I've actually made a topic on this here. And I now what you mean by "in a smart way", because stuff just respawning like everything else is a bit lame. Like, giant tentacles can renew marsh turf, so that's pretty neat, so a similar method could be applied to other turfs.

More cave and summer content - I would agree on that too. Especially Summer content. A simple way of improving Summer would be to move some existing content to being Summer exclusive/Summer exclusive again, like the Dragonfly (which would add more of a challenge too), Buzzards (acting like Summer version of Pengulls) and Tumbleweeds (making Summer the Tumbleweed picking time. I also think players not basing in desert all the time would be great, so this move could be good... although if gears are easier to renew in some other way too, like perhaps Clockworks respawning on every full moon or so if killed).

Various things - hmm, interesting ideas, I like it

[Mday]

10 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

7) I am, but NOT EARLY GAME.

Before you rethink and disagree with whatever you've said eariler in this post, I just wana say, thank you very much. Now we know, at least at some point during this conversation, you did want to make darts more reliable.

Quote

"How about early game you may ask? Early game I am too busy building my base and I hardy have to aggro passive mobs. A boomerang is all I need for saving noobs form shadows creatures, and killing birds/ rabbit for a quick morsel. " <= EXACTLY one of my points!

I guess you have already disagreed with the arrow in the quote.

p.s: In general, but not including early game. I guess early game is just not part of the general DST experience.

This is exectly what I mean I feel like "I've been talking to trump"

[Rellimarual]

Is there a way to mute a particular topic when it becomes just too ridiculous?

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

15 minutes ago, Mday said:

Before you rethink and disagree with whatever you've said eariler in this post, I just wana say, thank you very much. Now we know, at least at some point during this conversation, you did want to make darts more reliable.

I guess you have already disagreed with the arrow in the quote.

Huh. I never noticed the contradiction, thanks for pointing that out. It seems I had not read the point clearly. I believe I was thinking about how boomerang can basically do the darts' job when it comes to something like aggroing an enemy you can't aggroe from close range and didn't look in detail at every point made, so apologies for that.

3 minutes ago, Rellimarual said:

Is there a way to mute a particular topic when it becomes just too ridiculous?

Just ignore it? What problems exactly do you have with the topic? I'm guessing me (I know you pretty much hate my guts), but what specifically is it?

[Lumina]

12 minutes ago, Rellimarual said:

Is there a way to mute a particular topic when it becomes just too ridiculous?

You can unsubscribe if you subscribed to topic. I don't think you can mask it (not with forum option)

[Rellimarual]

Sincere question, actually. I read the forums on my iPad and use the "next unread" links to see what's new. I'd rather not have to scroll through the topics that don't interest me, especially when they're on the long side.

[Donke60]

7 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Would going out of your way to collect reeds and keep crafting darts not get grindy very quickly? I was satisfied when I got a bunch of darts first too, but I got very disappointed when I used up two whole stacks to kill a spider queen, because it takes so long to craft a bunch of them and a whole bunch of resources and time to be able to even craft them. And what do I get for it? Some silk, monster meat, a spider eggWh and a spider hat... ;_;

Why did you use so many conservation is key. I would of saved them for mctusk.

7 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

(the whole reed farm, warg pen, honey production and bird killing in winter thing that you have to go through to get to a point like that).

We'll I think your point was to point how excessive it was I never really saw darts as a must have; like a spear is a must have while meatbat dark sword are all optional

 

3 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Just ignore it? What problems exactly do you have with the topic? I'm guessing me (I know you pretty much hate my guts), but what specifically is it?

Seems a little quick to judge I don't think everyone on the topic hates you I think you are needed to point flaws out even if it can be annoying.

For my own two cents DST has become a muti game and its ok if it has junk things in it. On the fact that as the name together says who will most likely be together. So there is a lot of quick building or job assigning to make things go faster more knick knacks less slack. Besides I find if items exist to exist I'll use them just to use them. I don't need a whirly fan but I like to run around with it because I think it is cute. I don't need a walking cane, tam o shanter, dappervest, crockpot, bomerang, or any boss equipment but its nice to have I 'm fine with it just existing.

On 11/1/2016 at 6:28 AM, TemporaryMan said:

Looks like 1 in 11.  Normally feathers and morsels are both 1/2, but for the canary feathers are 0.1/1.1

 Looks like my luck on gift boxes

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

@Donke60 I don't think everyone hates me, but I think that Rellimarual does have a deep hatred for me, which isn't going to change it seems.

Of course, in theory, what you described works well and it might often be the case for private servers. But on public... You have newbies whom you need to give huge amounts of time and dialogue to in order to teach them stuff, you have leeches to look out for as well as griefers. So, it's a mix between being able to thrive together and being slowed down by others' inexperience or whatever else.

[Rellimarual]

I don't hate you at all. Why would I hate you when I don't even know you? I just got exasperated by the endless quarreling about your communication style in the forums and tried to convince other members not to get so worked up about it and disengage. It never really worked, though. But don't you find it ironic that you're constantly telling people not to overreact to your communication style (and even your signature tells them not to take it personally), yet you do the same thing yourself, becoming upset when criticized or challenged and accusing them of being hostile to you or hating you?

[Tree45]

I didn't read most of this thread so this may have already been said. Personally I wouldn't mind the idea of the dart recipe making more darts or having higher durability but at the cost of damage per dart, the more darts the recipe makes the lower the damage.