Kicking players with no reason

[Evil_Dottore]

I don't think it's fair to players who don't cheat. At first time was madness about griefers, two users were kicked with reason "I THINK HE'S GRIEFER" (what wasn't true). Then I've saw my nickname on voting, nobody did anything to leave me on server. Just "omg who did this, why why". 

On second time I was kicked very early with no reason too. And typical words from users: "why kick omg". And I can't see who started voting. I wish I could see. There is too many freedom for some players. 

It would be perfect if:
*username* started voting to kick *username*

I'm just mad now c:

[ItsPizzaTime]

Yep, this is a huge issue. Next time leave as the vote to kick is about to happen to you, then join back in ten seconds.

[Faintly Macabre]

It's unfortunate that you're having to deal with this, but broadcasting the name of the person who started the vote is not the solution. It's inviting harassment to people who make perfectly legitimate votes.

[Joachim]

14 minutes ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

It's unfortunate that you're having to deal with this, but broadcasting the name of the person who started the vote is not the solution. It's inviting harassment to people who make perfectly legitimate votes.

At least make it visible to the admin.

[Faintly Macabre]

12 minutes ago, Joachim said:

At least make it visible to the admin.

That makes sense at least.

[GuyNamedChris]

13 hours ago, ItsPizzaTime said:

Yep, this is a huge issue. Next time leave as the vote to kick is about to happen to you, then join back in ten seconds.

That just brings suspicion to you, leading to you just getting votekicked again...

[SuperPsiPower]

I used to play games like L4D that had a pretty basic vote kick system based on majority rules, but in the first game, it never displayed who was kicking who and cause endless tesion during games, in L4D2 they made it so that it was visible who started votes.

That being said, because it is a online game, there will be people who will take advantage of this and will kick you for sometimes no reason. My only advice to you is to find a server with admins, or has vote kicking disabled. 

[Grunko64]

Griefing and kicking are two major issues in DST... I agree with the general idea that they need to change the voting system. I've never been the target of random kicks or a griefer, but I almost never play on public dedicated servers. I usually play on player-hosted games (not sure if I'm using the right terminology here, but you know what I mean).

However many times I have joined someone's world only to instantly be kicked...

The current system seems highly abusable but not really sure how it could be fixed. I do think it should show the name of the person who started the vote. If it's a perfectly legitimate vote, then chances are that most of the rest of the server will be in agreement with them and they are not in danger of getting harassed or kicked themselves. I guess part of the problem is also just the fact that there will always be griefers, and there will always be people who immediately point fingers at other players.

i dont know m kind of just rambling at this point

[GuyNamedChris]

Can we just agree that no one is going to be happy with the votekick? The previous system made it virtually impossible to kick an actual griefer on a large server, because it had to be unanimous. The new system actually makes it possible to kick griefers, but everyone else as well. 

[Faintly Macabre]

27 minutes ago, Chris1488 said:

Can we just agree that no one is going to be happy with the votekick?

It's more than just that. Nobody is ever going to be completely happy with anything when it comes to abuse because there's nobody getting paid to do anything about it as it happens. None of the things people are complaining about are unique to DST; they're a problem in any multiplayer game where servers can/are run without supervision, by either the owner/operator of the server or the developers themselves. And as long as the developer doesn't/can't actively police the people using their software, you're just going to have some jerks to deal with; even servers full of server admin-sanctioned jerks. All you can do is play with people you know, or at least find people to play with someplace friendly. Joining random servers full of random people is just never, ever going to be a completely painless experience. Ever.

P.S.: This is not me suggesting Klei should run MMO-style customer support. That's a terrible idea.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

Methods to prevent griefing and voting (which too is actually griefing) are pretty bad currently. That doesn't mean they can't be improved though. As someone said before you couldn't kick anybody pretty much on the server. Now anybody can kick anybody quite easily with group-griefers joining, which I'm surprised has become more common based on others' input (I've not encountered group vote-kick griefing yet myself really so I dunno for certain). This is a prime example of developers doing what many modders have done; solving a griefing issue but creating one that's the exact opposite of it. I'm quite surprised that such important things are implemented so vaguely and not much in terms of detail is put in place, tbh. I've posted my suggestions before and though they in terms of both griefing and vote-kicking are not perfect by any means and have possible issues arising or issues that haven't even been thought about, or whatever else, they can make dealing with griefing and such much better than what we have now. And it's not like I'm saying "implement my ideas and be done with it"; things can be changed and improved and are being changed and ~improved already, so, I'm just trying to put up approaches that we should take if we want to deal with this better. If I remember about this topic later on, I'll copy-paste the list of suggestions I have that I think should be implemented in order to better deal with various griefing issues whilst not being inconvenient/extremely game-changing for other players who just want to play normally.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

Okay, so I might be double posting, but this is so that the topic stays in the first page. These are the suggestions related to griefing and grief related group-kicking as well as some general problems that can cause some issues in terms of lag and such:

* Players can't light structures on fire

* Players can light items/plants/flammable craftables or place down flame-inducing craftables (e.g. campfire) only if there is 3 or less flammable items/plants/flammable craftables.

* Players cannot place down items/plants/flammable craftables within 4 turf range of something that is already burning or smouldering.

* Players cannot attack mobs via fire dart, fire staff or torch if they are nearby flammable structures (10 turf range).

* Hammer requires 3 moon rocks instead of 3 rocks to craft and has 750 durability instead of 75 as well as requires alchemy engine to craft.

* Various things take a varying amount of more times to hammer than before (e.g. Ice Flingomatic takes x5 more times, which is 20, normal Chests require x3 more times, which is 6, Crafting machines, crock pots and ice boxes require x4 amount of times to hammer, which is 16 etc.)

* Structures can have their hammer hit health renewed via various resources (only takes 1 of them to get a structure from 1 hit away from being hammered to full amount) (e.g. Ice Flingomatic, Crock pot, Ice box each need cutstone to be repaired, Science machine requires either rocks or logs, alchemy engine requires either cutstone or boards, Prestihatitator and normal chests require boards, Shadow Manipulator requires Living logs, Basic farm logs, Improved farm rocks etc.)

* After hammering or hitting a structure via hammer a player will not be able to pick up any items from the ground (unless it's a sign, a directional sign, a pig head or a merm head and perhaps some other structures)

* A new structure called Safe is introduced, which acts like a chest, is infammable, has 6 inventory slots, requires 1 gear and 4 cutstone to craft and an alchemy engine to prototype (It cannot be hammered unless open and only by the player who has it open and when hammering requires 20 hammer hits (doesn't close upon being hit by a hammer, only once hammered) and can be repaired via cutstone. When first placing it down, you have it open and can attach a code to it which everyone except the person who has crafted it has to type the correct 4-digit code attached to it in order to open it the first time, after which they can always open it without problem). Since gears are quite, but not too rare especially late-game, crafting them too much would not be too big of an issue.

* A new item called Lock is introduced, which can be attached to Ice Boxes and Chests. It requires 1 moon rock to craft. Upon being attached, the structures it is attached to will act kind of like the Safe and will only be possible to be hammered when open and only by the player who has the structures open. For the lock to be taken off, the chests/ice boxes must be open and the lock can only be taken by the player who has it open. With this, Scaled chests + Locks can replace safes as well as the normal chests. Since normal chests won't be possible to be burnt by players directly, securing them could still be a viable option. Since moon rocks are pretty rare, locks won't be too expensive and abundant.

* A new item called Lock Pick is introduced, which can unlock locked chests, ice boxes and safes for the player who uses it without typing in the code initially. It would require 2 thulecite fragments and at least a broken ancient pseudo station and would have 10 uses. So long as this item is kept secured, this would disallow griefers, unless they go to the ruins, get some thulecite fragments and craft a lock pick, come back and open the chests, they could not open locked chests, whilst allow mid and late game users to open chests that have been either abandoned or are unnecessary or something along the lines. Keeping Lock Picks in chests secured by a lock or safes would be the smart way to keep them away from newbies and griefers, so that only the people you trust and possibly some others who are late-game players can only access the stuff in them, which could perhaps contain some rarer resources, such as gems, thulecite, living logs, nightmare fuel, gears etc. and perhaps some of the common resources as by late-game you would most likely have tons of it and having about half of it locked away so that a looter griefer couldn't take it all would be a smart way to do it.

* Beefalo have a limit of 100 - 200 in terms of their populus in the world.

* Spider queen, upon spawning would never leave a tier 1 spider nest. Instead, when killed, a spider queen would drop 2 spider eggs. This would not only help with spider overpopulation but also make combatting spider queens more necessary as well as make Webbers more useful.

* Spider nests cannot be placed down by player or by spider queen upon despawning (would not despawn due to these conditions) about 10 turfs in radius from a road, any man-made turf, any structures or the portal. Spider queens, upon spawning, if are within that range of those things would have their despawn timer paused (it would also pause whilst the queen has been aggroed by something in general). The spider queen, unless aggroed would not migrate towards any of those things. Unless aggroed, it would stay and could only place itself down as a tier 1 nest within about 5 - 10 turf radius from a "den point". The "den point" would initially be established for each den upon world generating at the exact point where the den has been generated. The point would stay in the same place all the time, however it would change to a different location if the initial world-generated point was next to any man-made turf, structures, roads or perhaps even portal somehow.

* No player can place down a spider nest ANYWHERE in the world if the world has 30 or so (somehow... may be if you set the spiders to more or lots? In which case the limit should probably be higher with these options, like on more 60 and on lots 120) nests in the world already.

* Players are immune from being aggroed by hostile creatures for 1 day upon joining.

* Skeletons do not have fixtures/bounding boxes for them anymore (this is to prevent exploits by using them as impassable walls as well as in terms of griefing, as it is possible to surround the portal with a few skelletons and trap all of the newcomers)

[StarvedKasad]

For me it's the exactly opposite.Joined a public server.Reached day 50 or so.There was one guy who kept dying and haunted hounds when they were attacking us.He knew the fire hounds could burn the entire base so he kept haunting them and eventually half the base was burned because of his fault.I asked that we kicked his Potatocup but people didn't listen.Second time he burns whatever left from the base so I rage quit.

I now understand why people don't want others to join their base or even set up traps to kill griefers who dare enter their base (wickerbottom comes to mind).In fact I might do it in the future or hell even join a pvp server for that exactly reason.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

42 minutes ago, StarvedKasad said:

For me it's the exactly opposite.Joined a public server.Reached day 50 or so.There was one guy who kept dying and haunted hounds when they were attacking us.He knew the fire hounds could burn the entire base so he kept haunting them and eventually half the base was burned because of his fault.I asked that we kicked his ass but people didn't listen.Second time he burns whatever left from the base so I rage quit.

I now understand why people don't want others to join their base or even set up traps to kill griefers who dare enter their base (wickerbottom comes to mind).In fact I might do it in the future or hell even join a pvp server for that exactly reason.

The former is kind of your/other players' fault; get a flingo(s) to cover your base if you don't want it to be burnt down by fire hounds. The latter is more of the griefer's fault, however.

[ItsPizzaTime]

On 7/29/2016 at 5:07 PM, Chris1488 said:

That just brings suspicion to you, leading to you just getting votekicked again...

RIGHT so next time im just going to take the ban that wears of in 10 minutes anyways and join back to have the same result? Might as well show them that what they are doing is useless and attempt to deter them. Theres no way im going to just simply get kicked for no reason after playing and investing my time for a couple hours only for that to happen, im going to fight back. I have over a thousand hours in this game with plenty of times that I have been a victim of burning and whatever else you name, the last thing I would ever do is greif someone.

[GuyNamedChris]

11 minutes ago, ItsPizzaTime said:

RIGHT so next time im just going to take the ban that wears of in 10 minutes anyways and join back to have the same result? Might as well show them that what they are doing is useless and attempt to deter them. Theres no way im going to just simply get kicked for no reason after playing and investing my time for a couple hours only for that to happen, im going to fight back. I have over a thousand hours in this game with plenty of times that I have been a victim of burning and whatever else you name, the last thing I would ever do is greif someone.

They don't know that. To everyone else you're just someone narrowly avoiding ban for some suspicious reason.

[ItsPizzaTime]

46 minutes ago, Chris1488 said:

They don't know that. To everyone else you're just someone narrowly avoiding ban for some suspicious reason.

Well I guess it's possible someone with over 1k hours would spend most of that time greifing but honestly looking at someones steam profile which is easy to do in game to see how much time they have on the game actually tells you a lot about that person. When I say rare, i mean it is RARE that I ever find someone who greifs and has over 100 hours in the game. Not saying they don't exist, but back onto what you were saying. To "everyone else" I don't care what they think of me once I have the majority of the server KICKING ME FOR NO REASON. When I say this, please actually assume that I am playing legitimately, because I will be minding my own business close to wintertime, ill have everything prepared when suddenly I have over 50% of the server wanting to kick me and no one has called me out or says a single thing for the entirety of the vote kick. At that point and time, do you honestly think I give a single flying merm what the heck anyone on that server thinks about me? NO, of course I don't, these people honestly don't care about what I think or feel so why should I? Theres no way I can fight back other than use what resources I have, and it just so happens that avoiding the ban is one of them. I'm sure Klei will remove that or patch it in whatever way that they can, but before then I want them to think about this system because it's really no better than before. The only thing I like is the rollback feature because at best you lose a couple minutes work, and used correctly you actually can prevent most greifing, otherwise the players have way to much power now and it's even anonymous so you can't see whos initiating the votes at all.

 

At least before I could actually play intelligently and hide my base underground, but now I can be literally anywhere but be at the risk of losing everything or just being at a huge inconvenience having to rejoin the server and all.

[StarvedKasad]

17 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

The former is kind of your/other players' fault; get a flingo(s) to cover your base if you don't want it to be burnt down by fire hounds. The latter is more of the griefer's fault, however.

Flingomatics on day 50?In the winter?You do that kind of thing?I wouldn't be suprised if you had to take more precautions against griefers..

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

3 hours ago, StarvedKasad said:

Flingomatics on day 50?In the winter?You do that kind of thing?I wouldn't be suprised if you had to take more precautions against griefers..

When I build a base with others, we often get flingos done by day 15 or so. At that moment our base isn't anything fancy, but we have at least 2 flingos going... Not that we build any fancy bases anyway, but just with a whole bunch of stuff that we will rely on for food, storage and other shenanigans.

[Rellimarual]

I've been experimenting on public servers a bit and one time we had someone come into our base on the first day of winter. There were three of us and someone started a kick vote because he was demanding resources we'd spent the past 21 days accumulating. He got mad and started setting things on fire, but maybe that was always his intent. After that, we voted to kick anyone the minute they joined. They might NOT be griefers, but coming into a game in the middle of the first winter puts a huge burden on everyone else and we'd already lost a lot to someone who tried that, so we weren't willing to risk it. It's not personal, it's just there are times when you can't afford to give someone the benefit of the doubt.

Griefers are bad, but people who know absolutely nothing or even who know the game but don't seem able to do basic stuff like forage for grass are kind of a drag, too. Sometimes they just demand and whine on and on and on and then get mad when they aren't given what they want or don't get immediate attention. I'm guessing a lot of them are kids and used to having other people provide for their needs all the time!

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

17 hours ago, Rellimarual said:

I've been experimenting on public servers a bit and one time we had someone come into our base on the first day of winter. There were three of us and someone started a kick vote because he was demanding resources we'd spent the past 21 days accumulating. He got mad and started setting things on fire, but maybe that was always his intent. After that, we voted to kick anyone the minute they joined. They might NOT be griefers, but coming into a game in the middle of the first winter puts a huge burden on everyone else and we'd already lost a lot to someone who tried that, so we weren't willing to risk it. It's not personal, it's just there are times when you can't afford to give someone the benefit of the doubt.

Griefers are bad, but people who know absolutely nothing or even who know the game but don't seem able to do basic stuff like forage for grass are kind of a drag, too. Sometimes they just demand and whine on and on and on and then get mad when they aren't given what they want or don't get immediate attention. I'm guessing a lot of them are kids and used to having other people provide for their needs all the time!

I've encountered plenty of newbies who don't want to learn and just sit by the firepit, run around in circles of the base and are just being another mouth to feed. Because of this, I usually tend to hold on to the idea that providing newcomers with some basic things to survive is essential and then let them go explore the world themselves until they find the base and somewhat, even in harsh seasons (hence why I've suggested the Shadow Chests). Because if they aren't willing to learn outside, what's the point keeping them in base? What is even their point in playing the game then? I really don't understand; how's it exciting to sit by a firepit, run around in circles and not ask any questions about the game?

Sometimes I do get newbies who are a bit experienced or who are completely new but DO want to learn and do things for themselves by themselves based on the instructions me or someone else more experienced has provided them. So, really just let them experience the harsh game for themselves; don't just tell them where the base is, especially since it can also increase the chances of your base getting griefed.

[CarlZalph]

On 7/31/2016 at 6:42 PM, ItsPizzaTime said:

i mean it is RARE that I ever find someone who greifs and has over 100 hours in the game. Not saying they don't exist

I like to compare the game to building a card house or sand castle.

Those who can play the game (build the house/castle) know that doing the task isn't hard, thanks to the person's skill, but rather it is a time sink; a testament to their own determination and will.

 

So destroying the other person's work only means that you're just wasting someone else's time.

I believe that generally people don't like to waste other peoples' times, especially when the person knows how much time was invested prior.