The MacTusks - aren't they overpowered?

[Asparagus]

 I main Wendy and the Tam is a great thing to have... her reduced sanity drain matched with the tam makes it worthwhile and very good to use in caves as she still gains a lot of sanity there... plus with Abigail, even with my notorious lag .-. I can farm them easily... push Abigail towards them and let the hounds agro on her then chase McTusk... As for the Tam itself, it good as it is now for me at least... though sanity is not much of a concern, the tam provides an easier way to regain it... plus I like the design :3

[AnonymousKoala]

13 minutes ago, Asparagus said:

 I main Wendy and the Tam is a great thing to have... her reduced sanity drain matched with the tam makes it worthwhile and very good to use in caves as she still gains a lot of sanity there... plus with Abigail, even with my notorious lag .-. I can farm them easily... push Abigail towards them and let the hounds agro on her then chase McTusk... As for the Tam itself, it good as it is now for me at least... though sanity is not much of a concern, the tam provides an easier way to regain it... plus I like the design :3

A. Design is pretty good, yeah. Hell, that's why I made a cat cap as Maxwell and nothing better. It looks weird in a good way on him.

B. Kinda my point about the sanity gain. With Wendy it more or less works because it doesnt focus on negating nightly sanity drain, but on just restoring enough to negate the drain while still restoring an ok-ish amount. Maxwell? It pains me in my soul to see Maxwell with Tam O' but in DST it's actually needed in a way, and having a Tam O' as maxwell is again, great, because it negates night sanity drain while still gaining quite some sanity. 

[Axehilt]

18 minutes ago, AnonymousKoala said:

They're trivial because of knowledge in the game(everything is). My hatred for the tam o' shanter is because its sanity gain is only high enough to negate night drain and that's it, and in most situations that's not that impressive. 

In a FPS if there's a gun with twice the DPS output of the other guns, with no other drawbacks, everyone immediately understands that the person calling that weapon "not that impressive" probably uses that weapon a lot and relies on it to make things easy.

In a MMORPG if one class has twice the DPS/HPS/mitigation capability of the other classes, with no other drawbacks, everyone immediately understands the same thing.

You may have knowledge of how to use a class with half DPS to beat that MMORPG challenge (dungeon/raid boss), but that doesn't change the fact that there's a dramatic imbalance and he classes should be balanced better.  So using words like "only" and phrases like "not that impressive" to describe something which is so objectively strong that it all but turns off the sanity system isn't really a reasonable way to discuss the item.

[AnonymousKoala]

2 minutes ago, Axehilt said:

In a FPS if there's a gun with twice the DPS output of the other guns, with no other drawbacks, everyone immediately understands that the person calling that weapon "not that impressive" probably uses that weapon a lot and relies on it to make things easy.

In a MMORPG if one class has twice the DPS/HPS/mitigation capability of the other classes, with no other drawbacks, everyone immediately understands the same thing.

You may have knowledge of how to use a class with half DPS to beat that MMORPG challenge (dungeon/raid boss), but that doesn't change the fact that there's a dramatic imbalance and he classes should be balanced better.  So using words like "only" and phrases like "not that impressive" to describe something which is so objectively strong that it all but turns off the sanity system isn't really a reasonable way to discuss the item.

Explain what is my argument to you. 

[Arlesienne]

It took me three pages to pluck up the courage to do that and I still hate myself for that, but several people are getting increasingly off-topic here. I am not looking for changing the drops the walruses offer. I want more of a challenge, possibly more mobs (hey, I still have this concept of a late-game activity of stealing a pup from a hound mound and then raising it for a companion which you would have to feed, possibly keep amused with catcoon toys or sticks, but which would in turn provide some insulation, sanity and defense, a bit like fugu!Hutch). Judging by Koala's post below, I'm not that alone in this desire.

1 hour ago, AnonymousKoala said:

I'd actually love more of this

So please, if everyone could keep themselves from discussing drops in this thread, saying how they easily kill the hunters and so on, I would greatly appreciate it. I can take part in any of those discussions, but in separate threads. Thanks for your understanding.

[Axehilt]

3 minutes ago, AnonymousKoala said:

Explain what is my argument to you. 

You haven't presented much, so I've only criticized the 'oh it's not that impressive' attitude you use towards something that's objectively twice as strong (and then some) as the next best thing.

It's not up to me to tell you what your argument is.  You're the one who has to communicate that.

If you agree that it's objectively the best sanity hat by 2x, and that it also has an additional benefit beyond that, then that starts us down the path towards agreeing that the game would be more interesting if a hat wasn't that strong.  The only other rational direction would be to amp up the sanity challenges the game throws at you (like if you get this hat in winter because you'll need it to travel deep into a new biome that constantly drains your sanity by a severe amount, and you have to travel into that biome by spring because it's set up as the only way to get good rain protection.) 

[Arlesienne]

Please, let's move this discussion to a different thread. This one is getting increasingly off-topic and the moderators will lock it in the end (and they will be right about that) without me receiving any solutions to making hunting the MacTusks more interesting.

[Asparagus]

8 minutes ago, Arlesienne said:

still have this concept of a late-game activity of stealing a pup from a hound mound and then raising it for a companion which you would have to feed, possibly keep amused with catcoon toys or sticks, but which would in turn provide some insulation, sanity and defense, a bit like fugu!Hutch). Judging by Koala's post below, I'm not that alone in this desire.

Like a more domestic version of a tall bird?

[Arlesienne]

1 minute ago, Asparagus said:

Like a more domestic version of a tall bird?

 Yes, a long-time, high-risk challenge of domesticating your own hound so that late-game still offers varied challenges. Would anyone want me to describe the details in Feedback and Suggestions to brainstorm or something?

[Asparagus]

hmm... well, the current beefalo training does offer that...

[AnonymousKoala]

4 minutes ago, Axehilt said:

You haven't presented much, so I've only criticized the 'oh it's not that impressive' attitude you use towards something that's objectively twice as strong (and then some) as the next best thing.

It's not up to me to tell you what your argument is.  You're the one who has to communicate that.

If you agree that it's objectively the best sanity hat by 2x, and that it also has an additional benefit beyond that, then that starts us down the path towards agreeing that the game would be more interesting if a hat wasn't that strong.  The only other rational direction would be to amp up the sanity challenges the game throws at you (like if you get this hat in winter because you'll need it to travel deep into a new biome that constantly drains your sanity by a severe amount, and you have to travel into that biome by spring because it's set up as the only way to get good rain protection.) 

I'm gonna stop for a variety of reasons(main one being its going too off topic), but sanity mechanic being expanded further won't be a bad thing. Having more reasons to be insane/sane(because frankly there's 0 incentive to be anything above right near the threshold for being insane, since the only issue is the sfx and visuals), more sanity risks, etc.

5 minutes ago, Arlesienne said:

It took me three pages to pluck up the courage to do that and I still hate myself for that, but several people are getting increasingly off-topic here. I am not looking for changing the drops the walruses offer. I want more of a challenge, possibly more mobs (hey, I still have this concept of a late-game activity of stealing a pup from a hound mound and then raising it for a companion which you would have to feed, possibly keep amused with catcoon toys or sticks, but which would in turn provide some insulation, sanity and defense, a bit like fugu!Hutch). Judging by Koala's post below, I'm not that alone in this desire.

So please, if everyone could keep themselves from discussing drops in this thread, saying how they easily kill the hunters and so on, I would greatly appreciate it. I can take part in any of those discussions, but in separate threads. Thanks for your understanding.

Having trained hounds would be badass.

I actually had an idea of how you can domesticate a varg and by extension the hounds(essentially put him to sleep, mount and feed, put to sleep, mount and feed over and over until he realizes "yeah i have no reason to kill this guy, he's chill").

Imagine commanding a pack of domesticated hounds to battle. Or a varg. because it doesnt get more badass than riding a giant wolf to battle, while the wolf brings its own wolves.

[Asparagus]

but it won't actively hunt your enemies like Abigail or pig followers or a Teen Bird right?

[MEANT TO ADD THIS TO MY PREVIOUS POST AND I MESSED UP TEEHEE]

[Arlesienne]

3 minutes ago, Asparagus said:

hmm... well, the current beefalo training does offer that...

Not as much for me. I can easily tame a beefie without risking much. Being kicked off? Only in the beginning. At any rate, I make sure to feed it a lot before mounting at all.

4 minutes ago, Asparagus said:

but it won't actively hunt your enemies like Abigail or pig followers or a Teen Bird right?

A well-trained one won't (it will with Ctrl-click like pigs towards neutral mobs). One not tamed yet... could start a fight like a smallish tallbird or a catcoon. As I said, basically a dog with all the implications of the fact.

...Shall I make a thread about my concept and ask one of those nice moderators to move the relevant posts there?

 

[AnonymousKoala]

8 minutes ago, Arlesienne said:

Not as much for me. I can easily tame a beefie without risking much. Being kicked off? Only in the beginning. At any rate, I make sure to feed it a lot before mounting at all.

A well-trained one won't (it will with Ctrl-click like pigs towards neutral mobs). One not tamed yet... could start a fight like a smallish tallbird or a catcoon. As I said, basically a dog with all the implications of the fact.

...Shall I make a thread about my concept and ask one of those nice moderators to move the relevant posts there?

 

I think you should

[Arlesienne]

57 minutes ago, AnonymousKoala said:

I think you should

Done:

To @nome or whoever could be so nice to help with moving the following posts to this thread:

http://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/67578-the-mactusks-arent-they-overpowered/?do=findComment&comment=776147
http://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/67578-the-mactusks-arent-they-overpowered/?do=findComment&comment=776148
http://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/67578-the-mactusks-arent-they-overpowered/?do=findComment&comment=776150
http://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/67578-the-mactusks-arent-they-overpowered/?do=findComment&comment=776151
http://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/67578-the-mactusks-arent-they-overpowered/?do=findComment&comment=776152

Thank you in advance.

[leonseye]

On 5/23/2016 at 5:12 PM, Arlesienne said:

Isn't stunlocking available to melee weapons only? And his darts are infinite, I believe. I need a reason for players to cooperate to get the hunters down.

Why?

These have never been intended to be a mob that needs cooperation to take down.  There are other mobs for that, such as the Ewecus and Dragonfly.

Go cooperate against those.

[Arlesienne]

2 minutes ago, leonseye said:

Why?

These have never been intended to be a mob that needs cooperation to take down.  There are other mobs for that, such as the Ewecus and Dragonfly.

Go cooperate against those.

Elaborate please.

[leonseye]

12 minutes ago, Arlesienne said:

Elaborate please.

I'm not sure what more elaboration you need.

MacTusk has always been easy to solo once you know how to fight him.  I'm not sure why this needs to change; Deerclops is supposed to be the hardest Winter mob, and should remain so, aside from the introduction of new mobs specifically designed to be difficult.

And Deerclops himself, who is far more rare than MacTusk and drops an item that is more useful than MacTusk's drops, is also very easy to solo.

Mobs that are much harder w/out cooperation already exist in DST: Ewecus and Dragonfly.  These mobs have mechanics that make them much harder to fight solo.

Instead of just taking what's fine and making it tedious, why not suggest some NEW mobs for DST that are hard to solo or have mechanics that require cooperation?

I am 100% for some harder fights in DST; I just don't think that taking the normal mobs and trying to turn them into raid bosses is the right route.

[Arlesienne]

I do not want to turn the walruses into raid mobs. I mentioned how easy the MacTusks become after a time and that more challenge would be welcome in the form of opponents with some agenda like the hunters in question. I would like to brainstorm with you if you're of a mind. The ewecus has very specific loot which just a minority of players would use. Out of raid bosses as you put it, the dragonfly remains because of gems and the pet lavae, but then again with said giant residing in the desert biome all the year there is little time pressure, which I consider one of the pros of the MacTusks.

[hyiltiz]

On 5/23/2016 at 2:13 PM, Arlesienne said:

Evening, kind folks,

I have been the group's MacTusk hunter for quite some time and have reached the point of believing the MacTusks are overpowered, even in the multiplayer version.

If I roll a long winter, it gives me about twenty-two days of the spawning period. The walruses respawn in a little over two days unless my estimates are incorrect. There is Papa MacTusk, Wee MacTusk and two ice hounds. Papa has his  lowdarts, Wee commands the hounds. So far, so good.

The problem is, once you have a strategy, you can farm the hunting party indefinitely, even when you end up the only person on the server. After acquiring five berets (not counting the one I gave my pal John) plus about seven tusks (again, the ones we made into walking canes do not count), I began thinking this may be an overpowered feature. I just used traps, tanged weapons and kiting (you can see the details here: http://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/67575-the-curious-case-of-arlesienne-in-winter-pvp-or-how-i-farmed-berets-and-doubts-about-the-state-of-society/). Nothing special. With 111 maximum health and 100 hunger (less than Wes for comparison). I still managed to fight them all despite the lack of backup. Don't you think the walruses should be stronger or at least rarer?

 

TBH in HUGE world settings where you have a biome of triple MacTusks, I like just setting up a winter camp by them. Make a firepit, a birdcage and crockpot and you are all set. Make a birdtrap/boomerang, so you have infinite income of morsels. Kill spiders while waiting for next respawn of tusks. Then, when tusks spawn, just use ice staff to freeze daddy, and do an easy job of ice hounds. Then Kill daddy. You have enough food to do nothing until next respawn.

[Arlesienne]

54 minutes ago, hyiltiz said:

TBH in HUGE world settings where you have a biome of triple MacTusks, I like just setting up a winter camp by them. Make a firepit, a birdcage and crockpot and you are all set. Make a birdtrap/boomerang, so you have infinite income of morsels. Kill spiders while waiting for next respawn of tusks. Then, when tusks spawn, just use ice staff to freeze daddy, and do an easy job of ice hounds. Then Kill daddy. You have enough food to do nothing until next respawn.

The method is worth recommending anyone (just watch out for Krampus), but the problem is... it is too easy and predictable for me. This is the woe of mine and the thread.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

I absolutely agree. I hate the current situation with the Mactusks and Krampus.

Mactusks would be a lot better if it actually hunted down players (as it was promoted) and could track them from far away, instead of just hanging around it's igloo.

 

[Arlesienne]

6 hours ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

I absolutely agree. I hate the current situation with the Mactusks and Krampus.

Mactusks would be a lot better if it actually hunted down players (as it was promoted) and could track them from far away, instead of just hanging around it's igloo.

 

Exactly! Mobs with some agenda when you want more excitement, but not PvP (seriously; PvP is no holds barred from my experiences, AKA boooring as no alliances are made).