new patch toughts +

[Dragnar]

So whit the new patch we get food spoilage.

And later on we will get the tech tree.

I am starting to feel this game is going the right direction.

If they can balance out the tech tree vs food spoilage.

They will have a brilliant jewel of a game in there hands ( its a brilliant game already ) not a jewel yet.

If they balance it well and the game will be harder

And the benefits of higher tech tree ( multiple way,s to go / cant get all )

They will have made a game thats kind of like a rogue like << witch i love )

But totally different

But its still beta *( just wanted to say keep it up !! love u )

[501105]

I agree. The combination of food spoiling, winter with new dangers, the sanity meter and the new research system should make for one very fun (and challenging) survival game.

[help]

i think the mobs are awesome and winter to, but that all your food spoils away all at ones!?, really wish they wont do that:(

[Daddums]

To those who hunger for a harder game (yeah.. pun intended):

I gotta agree with help on this one. I'm worried that challenge is being confused with mindless, busy-work that only slows down the veterans and makes the game too tough for the new player.

Try to remember the first dozen (or many more for some) games you played where you died pretty quick.

Worse yet were the games where you did pretty good and died (more sense of loss).

Still, we persevered and got to a point where survival wasn't the big challenge. Rather, exploring and building an empire became the new challenge.

Lets be careful not to ruin this for the new players by making the first 30 days a nightmare (frustrating) that sends newbies packing. End game is important, clogging the game with busy-work is not the solution.

Oh yeah- the rest of the patch looks like crazy fun:)

Edited January 15, 2013 by Daddums
Spelling

[Moonkis]

Try to remember the first dozen (or many more for some) games you played where you died pretty quick.

Worse yet were the games where you did pretty good and died (more sense of loss).

And that was the best part! That's why we want a harder game, too see how long we can survive before dying! WE WANT TO DIE! It's a game where you are supposed to die, eventually.

As Kevin said ( Some time ago, can't find the topic, but I'm sure I'm not alone in remembering that ), it's not a game where you are supposed to live after 200 days. If you do then kudos, but it's not designed or intended.

[Daddums]

I totally agree with everything you just said. Dying is exactly what kept me coming back.

My point was we need to be careful not to make the game too deadly for new players. They will tire of the frustration and leave before they realize success.

My second argument was that mindless busy-work isn't really a challenge. Scaled challenges based on days survived is however.

[Dragnar]

To those who hunger for a harder game (yeah.. pun intended):

I gotta agree with help on this one. I'm worried that challenge is being confused with mindless, busy-work that only slows down the veterans and makes the game too tough for the new player.

Try to remember the first dozen (or many more for some) games you played where you died pretty quick.

Worse yet were the games where you did pretty good and died (more sense of loss).

Still, we persevered and got to a point where survival wasn't the big challenge. Rather, exploring and building an empire became the new challenge.

Lets be careful not to ruin this for the new players by making the first 30 days a nightmare (frustrating) that sends newbies packing. End game is important, clogging the game with busy-work is not the solution.

Oh yeah- the rest of the patch looks like crazy fun:)

I know what your point is.

But the problem whit making it ( casual ) friendly = u will make it suck / short lived.

Don't get me wrong there needs to be a intro / nooby friendly option for the game.

But if u make the game casual friendly u will end up whit a glorified farm vill

Example is diablo ( 1-2 was complex and a mistake ( build / stuff ) made u waste hours of time ) jet it is one of the longest played online game,s ever

Diablo 3 is ( noob . casual friendly ) look how that's going for them ( high sales yes $$ but most players left after 2 months and still more every day )

Point is

Make a game to complicated ( IA dwarf fortress ) and ull have a small player base

Make a game to casual ( and ull have a big player base but no longevity

U need to find the balance in between << the hard part

As in casuals can play somewhat easy ( first 7-10 day,s ) but after that u will not survive long whit out thinking/planning

Problem whit casual is they kind of want fast easy games ( whit hardly any challenge but good looks )thus making this game last 1-2 weeks for most

If the controls are ( good )

And the game mechanics fluid / not cluttered

And a good amount of challenge

U will pull more casuals as u might think

But make the game to easy and u will loze most supporters / backers ( peeps that made game possible )

I would not buy a beta of farm vill for example would u ?

Edited January 15, 2013 by Dragnar

[Moonkis]

Well to me the spoiling food part feels kinda natural, having to gather food, and not hording it. Let's face it though, only time will tell if it's a good or bad thing. Personally I hope if plays well and doesn't feel tedious.

[Dragnar]

I totally agree with everything you just said. Dying is exactly what kept me coming back.

My point was we need to be careful not to make the game too deadly for new players. They will tire of the frustration and leave before they realize success.

My second argument was that mindless busy-work isn't really a challenge. Scaled challenges based on days survived is however.

yes 100% correct

Thats why they need to set a day limit on the game ( as they have now ) most casuals can get to day 7 ) after that its a problem

But i don't want an other farm vill

What i would love is 4 staged game

stage 1 (day 1-10 )

Easy time to build base and plan ahead

Stage 2 ( day 11-25 )

small attacks and food starts to rot ( medium challenge )

Stage 3 ( day 26- 50 )

Game want to kill u ( but your base can still handle it )

stage 4 ( day 50 + )

Game wants to kill u and take over your base ( need 2 repair / build up base ever now and then ) and keep focused ( 1 mistake is death ) meat effigies rot away ever 7 day,s

[Dragnar]

Well to me the spoiling food part feels kinda natural, having to gather food, and not hording it. Let's face it though, only time will tell if it's a good or bad thing. Personally I hope if plays well and doesn't feel tedious.

True its natural

Tough i would rater have had a game where food was scares and hard to come by

Then food that needed micro management

But have not played the update so i can not tell u how good / bad it is

[Daddums]

True its natural

Tough i would rater have had a game where food was scares and hard to come by

Then food that needed micro management

But have not played the update so i can not tell u how good / bad it is

So, you... like micro-management?

Okie dok! I have processed your stand on the issue and stand firmly behind mine.

I guess time will tell the final story. Good luck to you sir;)

[Mathenaut]

I'm with Daddums on this. Grind isn't challenge. Busywork and monotony? Not challenge. Those are just timesinks, and timesinks are not challenging.

Insofar, it doesn't seem that spoilage is too bad in concept, as the worst of it won't really kick in until after a couple of weeks. Which isn't so bad.

I'd say that the only real change needed would be making the crock pot a bit easier to get maybe.

[w0bbl3r]

Food spoiling is ok, but it depends how long it takes to spoil

I see a lot of people saying it's a great idea and a lot saying it could ruin the game.

I see both points. We don't want food to spoil in a day so that all our time is spent getting food and we don't have time for anything else, but we DO want more challenges to be added, so you can't spend a few days gathering a shitton of food and then never have to worry about it for another 30 days.

Food should take around 1-2 weeks to spoil, depending on the food typeand whether it is cooked, or kept near a fire or in the sun or kept in a chest. This is a tough thing to balance I know, but if food spoiling is going to be a part of the game it has to be just right.

Food in real life doesn't go off in a few hours, even sell by/use by dates err on the side of caution, and I know plenty of people (me included) who will just use their judgement even if the use by date is long passed. If the food SEEMS ok, it should be ok, and this can take anywhere from days to weeks, depending on the food type. The same amount of time should pass for the food in-game to go off. Perhaps raw meat will go off quicker than veggies, as it does in real life, seeds will last for weeks as long as they are kept dry and aren't in a condition they can germinate.

These things, if done right, can add lots of enjoyment and challenge to the game. If done wrong they can turn the game into one long drudge to keep getting food, all day, every day. More time spent getting food than anything else will ruin the game, people like to explore, go monster hunting, expand their camp etc., they don't want to be spending every hour of the day trapping animals, checking traps and picking fruit and veg. This will spoil (pun intended) the game I think.

I trust Klei to get the balance right, they have done well so far, I have no reason not to trust them. Even if it is poorly balanced at start, if people say it's not to their liking these devs will respond quickly and correctly, as they have done constantly so far.

This is the reason Klei are now one of the my favourite devs of modern years.

[Dragnar]

Food in real life doesn't go off in a few hours, even sell by/use by dates err on the side of caution, and I know plenty of people (me included) who will just use their judgement even if the use by date is long passed. If the food SEEMS ok, it should be ok, and this can take anywhere from days to weeks, depending on the food type. The same amount of time should pass for the food in-game to go off.

yea your wright 90% of the use by / sell by date,s are either sucked out of the thumb or day,s weeks / years befour the actual expire date * in holland < where i live ( they opened canned patato mash ( from ww 1/2 ) and it was still eatable ( they did eat it to )

and also http://www.globalpost.com/dispatches/globalpost-blogs/weird-wide-web/man-tastes-64-year-old-can-lard << germany

[Little Teemo]

the good thing is that ur food will be able to stack now so i have no problem with the spoilage, my honey hams not stacking filled up like 15 chests........i hate carrying it one at a time

[Moonkis]

Fortunately we are in the demon land of Maxwell so...also the time era is a bit unclear

[Dragnar]

So, you... like micro-management?

Okie dok! I have processed your stand on the issue and stand firmly behind mine.

I guess time will tell the final story. Good luck to you sir;)

Actually i like a balance between micro management and free time

It all depends on the ingratiation and grind vs fun ration

the good thing is that ur food will be able to stack now so i have no problem with the spoilage, my honey hams not stacking filled up like 15 chests........i hate carrying it one at a time

Yea 100% thumbs up for that

Tough i wonder how the fridge will work out

Fortunately we are in the demon land of Maxwell so...also the time era is a bit unclear

A bit ? only a bit XD Edited January 15, 2013 by Dragnar

[Moonkis]

Uh, well or a larger bit xD

I don't really know, It's all a bit ....fuzzy and super secretive.....LET'S INVESTIGATE!

[winddbourne]

I totally agree with everything you just said. Dying is exactly what kept me coming back.

My point was we need to be careful not to make the game too deadly for new players. They will tire of the frustration and leave before they realize success.

My second argument was that mindless busy-work isn't really a challenge. Scaled challenges based on days survived is however.

This really is the heart of my issue with Don't Starve. I loved the challenge when I first started, and then I got into a boring routine once I "conquered" the world. Nothing ever changed. So I died from sheer carelessness brought on by boredom and restarted on a new map.

The new map was fun until I realized there was nothing new to see, just a new mix of the same old stuff. It also got very dull repeating the same recipe once again. It was always run around grab flint, grab berries, grab sticks, chop wood, make campfire, etc . . .

There is a certain recipe to success and it never changes any more than your initial starting region changes. It's pretty much always grass/berries/rabbits. YAY! . . . . time passes . . . Snore. . . . If you want to keep me interested then the game needs to build in challenge over time.

Eventually new things need to show up or be introduced, and yes eventually a new world will help, but if it's just more of the same then their portal system will become just as lame as my constant restarting system was.

Edited January 15, 2013 by winddbourne

[dbrunk]

I dont mean to get off topic, but can someone explain what a "tech tree" is? Ive seen that verbage used multiple times but i dont know what it is referring too. Thanks

[Dragnar]

I dont mean to get off topic, but can someone explain what a "tech tree" is? Ive seen that verbage used multiple times but i dont know what it is referring too. Thanks

U start whit only the left stide ( ore up side ) unlocked

And after u gain experience / tech point / new buildings / new items u can unlock new talents / ability,s

example left start right end http://www.civfanatics.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=1533&original=1&c=member&imageuser=128268

hope this explains enough for u

[Toaster Fu]

Fortunately we are in the demon land of Maxwell so...also the time era is a bit unclear

[MENTION=8]Kevin[/MENTION] said it was the 1920's.

[help]

Can anyone help me please. My chrome doesn't seem to update;( Ive tried many different internets, restarting browser, logging in/out, restarting my computer, but nothing works my update thingie says " last build imminent". And im not getting the new update. ( I live in Holland )

[Dragnar]

Can anyone help me please. My chrome doesn't seem to update;( Ive tried many different internets, restarting browser, logging in/out, restarting my computer, but nothing works my update thingie says " last build imminent". And im not getting the new update. ( I live in Holland )

ik kan je er niet mee helpen zit zelf op steam sorry ( probeer support forum )

* in english )

i cant help u whit that i myself am using steam ( try support forum )

[dbrunk]

U start whit only the left stide ( ore up side ) unlocked

And after u gain experience / tech point / new buildings / new items u can unlock new talents / ability,s

example left start right end http://www.civfanatics.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=1533&original=1&c=member&imageuser=128268

hope this explains enough for u

YES, thank you, the visual makes it alot easier to understand.