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Was Maxwell Always a Jerk?

TheTraditionalGentleman

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TheTraditionalGentleman

TheTraditionalGentleman

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I really like Maxwell. However, as dapper as he may be, there is no denying that he tends to be kind of an 9k=.jpg

 

This is by no means a pressing matter, but was William Carter as much of a jerk as Maxwell? To me he looks like a nerdy Harry Potter LARPer, but he has to have turned into Maxwell somehow. So I guess it kind of comes down to this; did the shadow creatures warp his personality to this extreme, or was he so determined to be someone other than the weak William Carter that that is just part of the persona of Maxwell? Or was he just like that from the beginning?

 

And on a side note, what is the popular idea as to what class Maxwell comes from? Poor, Middle, or Rich? His comments show that he is well read and used to fine things, but then again, after becoming Maxwell he was a stage magician using real magic. He was pretty much guaranteed to make a ton of money. I'm just curious as to if he came from money.

Again, definitely not a huge deal. I just like knowing the little details of the characters :D 

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MikoWebster

MikoWebster

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I'd imagine his personality changed a lot since becoming Maxwell. I imagine that it's two fold, he was slightly manipulated by 'Them' and also kinda changed who he was because of the new power he held. I think he has a line when you talk to him on the nightmare throne about how he's changed, I don't think it revealed much though.

As for his economic class? I have no idea, I imagine to afford a trip from the UK to the US back in the early 1900's he'd of had to be saving for a very long time /or/ he'd be middle class or above. I think given that he had to borrow so much money suggests to me that he was middle class, spent a lot of his savings and ended up poor, hence the debts. Post 'Maxwell the Great!' though? I would imagine he was really raking the money in by that point.

That's just my take on it all though, he could have been rich and terrible with money, or he could have been poor and been given a lot of favours prior to becoming Maxwell. It's an interesting look into his backstory for sure!

Quoth143

Quoth143

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I think Maxwell is essentially William Carter's bad qualities i.e. his shadow self, given dominance over his first personality. I see William as someone who, while being nice and friendly, deeply desired to have power. He wanted to be the one people respected, not the guy people could walk over. Finding the Codex Umbra, he made his wish, either consciously or sub-consciously and They helped him achieve that power. Then it came time to pay up. 

This is going to be kind of a depressing idea, but I have a head canon that Maxwell's initial intention of hiring an assistant was to essentially sacrifice the assistant to the shadows as payment, doing so during one of his shows where he made the assistant disappear so to speak. He couldn't do it. 

TheTraditionalGentleman

TheTraditionalGentleman

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33 minutes ago, Quoth143 said:

I think Maxwell is essentially William Carter's bad qualities i.e. his shadow self, given dominance over his first personality. I see William as someone who, while being nice and friendly, deeply desired to have power. He wanted to be the one people respected, not the guy people could walk over. Finding the Codex Umbra, he made his wish, either consciously or sub-consciously and They helped him achieve that power. Then it came time to pay up. 

This is going to be kind of a depressing idea, but I have a head canon that Maxwell's initial intention of hiring an assistant was to essentially sacrifice the assistant to the shadows as payment, doing so during one of his shows where he made the assistant disappear so to speak. He couldn't do it. 

I think I really agree with the first part. As for the second, well, maybe it's just not in me to believe that even Maxwell (well, at least not in the early stages) would murder someone for more power. Maybe he just figured that since he was big league now, he needed an assistant? That's what I hope anyway :p 

Mikeadatrix

Mikeadatrix

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I reckon William was a kind and caring young man, like someone said above, Maxwell is everything he doesn't want to be come. Egotistical, greedy, merciless, and cruel. As DST continues, the true William starts to come out as he reconnects with people who he cares for and cares for him. Wicker being his mom would be cool. But I won't bat an eye if it's wrong.

TheTraditionalGentleman

TheTraditionalGentleman

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22 minutes ago, LuxDie said:

When Wickerbottom inspects his statue she says "He is actually a sweet boy when you peel away the ego". So I guess he was a nice guy at the beginning. And I also suspect Wicker is his mother.

I agree that he probably was a nice guy originally. I hope he can change back. But as interesting as the idea would be, I don't think that Wickerbottom is his mother. Wickerbottom sounds like a last name, and William's sirname is Carter. Unless maybe she divorced and remarried. But I think that maybe it's more possible that she was one of his teachers when he was a boy? Or maybe neighbor? 

oCrapaCreeper

oCrapaCreeper

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We do know from Maxwell's quotes that nightmare fuel and dark magic in general changes people and creatures. Look at his quote for the ancient guardian for instance. 

I don't think he was always a jerk. He was just an awkward magician who got a bit too curious with the mysteries of the universe. Of course, he wasn't able to make himself known until he started using magic from the accursed book he found. Once he got into dark magic he changed, grew a bigger ego, and didn't want to remember his old self (which makes me wonder if his unshadow skin is canon).

Though probably suffering permanent damage from his time as the Puppet Master, he at least seems like he is trying to change in DST. The other characters observe that he's not that bad of a guy when not being held up by the Shadow Creatures' strings and seem to forgive him for the most part.

 

AnonymousKoala

AnonymousKoala

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3 hours ago, Quoth143 said:

I think Maxwell is essentially William Carter's bad qualities i.e. his shadow self, given dominance over his first personality. I see William as someone who, while being nice and friendly, deeply desired to have power. He wanted to be the one people respected, not the guy people could walk over. Finding the Codex Umbra, he made his wish, either consciously or sub-consciously and They helped him achieve that power. Then it came time to pay up. 

This is going to be kind of a depressing idea, but I have a head canon that Maxwell's initial intention of hiring an assistant was to essentially sacrifice the assistant to the shadows as payment, doing so during one of his shows where he made the assistant disappear so to speak. He couldn't do it. 

*Insert some "O ****" gif*

WildWesternWilson

WildWesternWilson

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4 hours ago, Quoth143 said:

I think Maxwell is essentially William Carter's bad qualities i.e. his shadow self, given dominance over his first personality. I see William as someone who, while being nice and friendly, deeply desired to have power. He wanted to be the one people respected, not the guy people could walk over. Finding the Codex Umbra, he made his wish, either consciously or sub-consciously and They helped him achieve that power. Then it came time to pay up. 

This is going to be kind of a depressing idea, but I have a head canon that Maxwell's initial intention of hiring an assistant was to essentially sacrifice the assistant to the shadows as payment, doing so during one of his shows where he made the assistant disappear so to speak. He couldn't do it. 

An interesting idea, but I just can't wrap my head around the idea that Maxwell --- even if it was initially --- wanted Charlie to be taken by Them. In fact, in the 'Final Act', he didn't seem to know that the shadows he was controlling COULD steal people into their world. 

Quoth143

Quoth143

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4 minutes ago, WildWesternWilson said:

An interesting idea, but I just can't wrap my head around the idea that Maxwell --- even if it was initially --- wanted Charlie to be taken by Them. In fact, in the 'Final Act', he didn't seem to know that the shadows he was controlling COULD steal people into their world. 

That's kind of the nice thing about it being just an idea since it's probably wrong. But it's fun to speculate and hear what others think. 

WildWesternWilson

WildWesternWilson

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3 minutes ago, Quoth143 said:

That's kind of the nice thing about it being just an idea since it's probably wrong. But it's fun to speculate and hear what others think. 

Oh, yes, definitely! I'm not saying the idea is completely implausible --- I do think it has some merit --- I just personally have a few qualms with it. 

Quoth143

Quoth143

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2 minutes ago, WildWesternWilson said:

Oh, yes, definitely! I'm not saying the idea is completely implausible --- I do think it has some merit --- I just personally have a few qualms with it. 

I understand that, as frankly I doubt Maxwell would go THAT far for power. 

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