Stealing mods or...

[_Q_]

What is your opinion on subject of mods that have the same idea?

Or use your idea and apply it to the other game items, objects?

Example:

Orginal:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=196994731

Copy(?):

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=605692651

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=607314587

[GalloViking]

I'd say, look at the codes first to see if they are identical or not.

[_Q_]

2 minutes ago, GalloViking said:

I'd say, look at the codes first to see if they are identical or not.

They are nver identical, he is using machine component that I was using in the past, before I made my own component for it.

I add new items, he edits all walls directly.

The Idea is more or lessthe same, with some small difference in execution of it.

[GalloViking]

Well, if he is plagiarizing your older mod, I think that you can report him

If not, well, you can't really do anything about it. Won't be the first time two similar mods are posted, players will make their choice.

[_Q_]

Comon its number 3 mod on forums and quite popular on steam, pretending he didn't know about it is quite poor line of defence.

[Mobbstar]

EDIT: How can you be so sure they took it off your github? Same variables and function structure, huh? I guess that's reason enough.

I don't see how they're "stealing" it. Your mod uses a distinct prefab for doors, theirs modifies the walls themselves. Furthermore, your mod has more features (adjacent ones trigger each other).

That's like with computers. Is company A ripping off company B for producing cheaper, easier-to-use, less advanced PCs? Is C# a copy of Java? Is an author not allowed to publish a book just because the plot line is largely similiar to some other books plot line (I'm sure you know some examples already)?

These mods are similiar, but not identical. Most users will prefer one over the other (when offered both), picking whichever is closer to their personal expectations.

For instance, there's Nostalgic MainScreen and Menu Colour Changer. Two mods that have almost no words in common, but do the same kind of thing. But the former is far simpler to use, whilst the latter allows for picking specific colours.

On both files, there's lots of positive user comments, despite me and Fid having commented on each others files about the issue. My conclusion is that NMS is popular among people who don't think it's worth a lot of effort to set their main screen up (just like me when I wrote the mod). MCC is popular among people who want to truly customise their game as much as they can without scripting knowledge.

33 minutes ago, _Q_ said:

Comon its number 3 mod on forums and quite popular on steam, pretending he didn't know about it is quite poor line of defence.

By no means can he be expected to do extensive search on this topic. If they did (at first), I suppose they searched "toggle wall" or something. Mod authors tend to phrase their works awkwardly, so they can often not be found without using just one correct keyword and wadding through dozens of files. *cough cough* I'm lazy, alright!

When searching "colour screen" or "main menu" in Steam Workshop, you don't get fid's menu colour changer.

On that note, did you plain request their first mod to be banned? Wait, you check for other authors too? It's not like artwork, where one can immediately spot plagiarism.

[_Q_]

15 minutes ago, Mobbstar said:

EDIT: How can you be so sure they took it off your github?

I don't see how they're "stealing" it. Your mod uses a distinct prefab for doors, theirs modifies the walls themselves. Furthermore, your mod has more features (adjacent ones trigger each other).

That's like with computers. Is company A ripping off company B for producing cheaper, easier-to-use, less advanced PCs? Is C# a copy of Java? Is an author not allowed to publish a book just because the plot line is largely similiar to some other books plot line (I'm sure you know some examples already)?

These mods are similiar, but not identical. Most users will prefer one over the other (when offered both), picking whichever is closer to their personal expectations.

For instance, there's Nostalgic MainScreen and Menu Colour Changer. Two mods that have almost no words in common, but do the same kind of thing. But the former is far simpler to use, whilst the latter allows for picking specific colours.

On both files, there's lots of positive user comments, despite me and Fid having commented on each others files about the issue. My conclusion is that NMS is popular among people who don't think it's worth a lot of effort to set their main screen up (just like me when I wrote the mod). MCC is popular among people who want to truly customise their game as much as they can without scripting knowledge.

By no means can he be expected to do extensive search on this topic. If they did (at first), I suppose they searched "toggle wall" or something. Mod authors tend to phrase their works awkwardly, so they can often not be found without using just one correct keyword and wadding through dozens of files. *cough cough* I'm lazy, alright!

When searching "colour screen" or "main menu" in Steam Workshop, you don't get fid's menu colour changer.

On that note, did you plain request their first mod to be banned?

2 mods are way to similiar for me. I go trough workshop from time to time and report mods, that I see as duplicates or copy, there is no need to keep them all in the workshop and makes searching harder. Beside that he using all functios of the old version of Wall Gates without making it into new item. That is not right for me. I didn't report the golden spear mods that are true plauge on the workshop, the only thing they changed is the dmg to 500 or other high dmg values. IMHO workshop is full of copied/stolen mods. THat all happens without contacting authors and sadly no one is guarding the workshop - only reported mods got removed.

It can slip by in case of other mods but in case of 3 mods I wont tolerate any copies, updates and what not.

So you saying that I should not have any right to my idea as long as few lines of code are different?

I think I could code some of Your mods in a different way, can I publish them?

[Kzisor]

 

2 minutes ago, _Q_ said:

Beside that he using all functions of the old version of Wall Gates without making it into new item.

If you can prove that you created the code which the mod is using you can legally file a DMCA take down notice. You have to be able to prove that you are the owner of the content which you're filing the complaint. It is difficult to prove that you are the original author of code unless you have it on the internet somewhere with a license/agreement of usage.

[_Q_]

4 minutes ago, Kzisor said:

 

If you can prove that you created the code which the mod is using you can legally file a DMCA take down notice. You have to be able to prove that you are the owner of the content which you're filing the complaint. It is difficult to prove that you are the original author of code unless you have it on the internet somewhere with a license/agreement of usage.

I don't keep old versions of the mods at all. If I update something then the old thing is gone forever.

Could make GitHub with all the code and versions, but I don't, as its all small files and small mods, without any big code in them.

The fact that someone can take your idea and write code in different way, but the end result is quite the same is very annoying.

Should not be allowed, just for the sake of the sanity.

Soon people will request other missing features that my current mod has and he will add them for sure.

[Kzisor]

Just now, _Q_ said:

The fact that someone can take your idea and write code in different way, but the end result is quite the same is very annoying.

Should not be allowed, just for the sake of the sanity.

Copyrighting an idea would allow monopolies to exist which could destroy or destabilize entire economies. Implementations can be copyrighted because an idea can be implement in different manners to produce a similar or the same result.

[_Q_]

5 minutes ago, Kzisor said:

Copyrighting an idea would allow monopolies to exist which could destroy or destabilize entire economies. Implementations can be copyrighted because an idea can be implement in different manners to produce a similar or the same result.

I want monopoly in this case.

I am the Door Maker and there can be only ONE.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=494826808&searchtext=

Icon I made, anim files I changed, prefab I changed. Its all my work, only change is 500 dmg, its so cool.

There can't be monopoly on the idea of golden spears so its OK.

I was working on mod update but lost mood for it. Will just go and play some games instead.

[Kzisor]

Just now, _Q_ said:

I want monopoly in this case.

I am the Door Maker and there can be only ONE.

Okay, then look at this scenario.

If you want monopolies; the first video game company copyrights the idea of "video games". No other company after can create new or different "video games" because it would be a breach of copyright which means that Don't Starve would no longer exist and therefore you are no longer a Door Maker.

[_Q_]

Just now, Kzisor said:

Okay, then look at this scenario.

If you want monopolies; the first video game company copyrights the idea of "video games". No other company after can create new or different "video games" because it would be a breach of copyright which means that Don't Starve would no longer exist and therefore you are no longer a Door Maker.

This is not the case, here and taking that to higher level don't proves anything.

There is ONE mod that is working on the workshop, with plenty of options, now adding the same mod with less options, but a little siplyfied is not needed, cause we already have it. No need to recreate the same ideas over and over.

Can I republish all your mods with different code? Since you don't have monopoly on the idea I think I can.

[JoeW]

I can't remove mods because they share an idea. If somebody took your code or your art, we have something to work with, but establishing ownership of an idea in it's entirety is not something we can really do. 

This is a challenge among all software development and is a complex issue of which there are many opinions, however at this time we are not willing to take down mods that are too similar or the same in concept.

 

 

[_Q_]

Just now, JoeW said:

I can't remove mods because they share an idea. If somebody took your code or your art, we have something to work with, but establishing ownership of an idea in it's entirety is not something we can really do. 

This is a challenge among all software development and is a complex issue of which there are many opinions, however at this time we are not willing to take down mods that are too similar or the same in concept.

 

 

My bad I don't keep the code of older versions then. But let me check the github as someone uploaded a tons of old modst there.

[Mobbstar]

17 minutes ago, Kzisor said:

If you want monopolies; the first video game company copyrights the idea of "video games". No other company after can create new or different "video games" because it would be a breach of copyright which means that Don't Starve would no longer exist and therefore you are no longer a Door Maker.

*cough* dismey *cough*

Just for your general information (FYI), there's a way to explicitly "go anti-monopoly". If I had known it earlier, I would have equipped all my big mods with it (I am not entirely sure about the legal meaning, but where there's no complaint, there's no injustice, it's just words after all)

Spoiler

This is free and unencumbered software released into the public domain.

Anyone is free to copy, modify, publish, use, compile, sell, or
distribute this software, either in source code form or as a compiled
binary, for any purpose, commercial or non-commercial, and by any
means.

In jurisdictions that recognize copyright laws, the author or authors
of this software dedicate any and all copyright interest in the
software to the public domain. We make this dedication for the benefit
of the public at large and to the detriment of our heirs and
successors. We intend this dedication to be an overt act of
relinquishment in perpetuity of all present and future rights to this
software under copyright law.

THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND,
EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF
MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT.
IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR
OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE,
ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR
OTHER DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE.

For more information, please refer to <http://unlicense.org>

I found this on some mod and thought "that's an interesting oddity".

EDIT: Come to think about it, could I just scratch the "commercial purpose" out? I don't think I can simply modify the "license"...

[_Q_]

2 minutes ago, Mobbstar said:

*cough* dismey *cough*

Just for your general information, there's a way to explicitly "go anti-monopoly". If I had known it earlier, I would have equipped all my big mods with it (I am not entirely sure about the legal meaning, but where there's no complaint, there's no injustice, it's just words after all)

  Hide contents

This is free and unencumbered software released into the public domain.

Anyone is free to copy, modify, publish, use, compile, sell, or
distribute this software, either in source code form or as a compiled
binary, for any purpose, commercial or non-commercial, and by any
means.

In jurisdictions that recognize copyright laws, the author or authors
of this software dedicate any and all copyright interest in the
software to the public domain. We make this dedication for the benefit
of the public at large and to the detriment of our heirs and
successors. We intend this dedication to be an overt act of
relinquishment in perpetuity of all present and future rights to this
software under copyright law.

THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND,
EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF
MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT.
IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR
OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE,
ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR
OTHER DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE.

For more information, please refer to <http://unlicense.org>

I found this on some mod and thought "that's an interesting oddity".

Some people may allow changes and copy of their mods, I'm not the one of them.

I need to think over if any further investment of my time and effort in mods that can be stolen is worth it for me.

So for now I will go and play some games, instead of continuing work on mod updates.

I make mods for people, it would be nice if they asked for feature x or y instead of making their copy of the mod right away.

But no lets make a copy, cause its so much fun.

[_Q_]

11 minutes ago, JoeW said:

I can't remove mods because they share an idea. If somebody took your code or your art, we have something to work with, but establishing ownership of an idea in it's entirety is not something we can really do. 

This is a challenge among all software development and is a complex issue of which there are many opinions, however at this time we are not willing to take down mods that are too similar or the same in concept.

 

 

What about those 2:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=494826808&searchtext=

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=455938841&searchtext=spear

They use icon I created among other things.

But then not sure if I can call that icon and anim, build renams as my work of art.

[Kzisor]

1 minute ago, Mobbstar said:

*cough* dismey *cough*

Just for your general information, there's a way to explicitly "go anti-monopoly". If I had known it earlier, I would have equipped all my big mods with it (I am not entirely sure about the legal meaning, but where there's no complaint, there's no injustice, it's just words after all)

I found this on some mod and thought "that's an interesting oddity".

Public domains brings with it a completely different spectrum of issues that I shall not discuss here. If you'd like more information you could do a quick google search on public domain.

[JoeW]

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=441378551

[_Q_]

So in other words everyone is free to do as they please with your work as long as they take different way of code writing and replace your assets with their own.

Ok.

This is not really worth it then.

[ImDaMisterL]

11 minutes ago, _Q_ said:

So in other words everyone is free to do as they please with your work as long as they take different way of code writing and replace your assets with their own.

Ok.

This is not really worth it then.

No, it's just that there is no way to prove if he outright copied you and/or simply modified the code and assets or not.

Maybe he did copy you and your assets. Maybe he never heard about your mod and had this idea, thus deciding to make it a thing. (And hey, just because a mod is really famous and/or popular, doesn't mean everyone knows about it, I've tired of seeing people with no idea what "Up & Away", "Hero in the Dark" or "Industrial Resolution" were, and these are really popular mods).

if you're so bugged by this, why not try to contact the mod's owner? You could inform him about your mod and try to clear up any misunderstanding and questions left behind. (Though I think it'd be wiser to give it some days, maybe a week before contacting him. You seem pretty irritated, and talking with him this soon COULD lead to some misunderstandings and arguements. Not saying this WILL happen if you talk to him soon, and not saying it won't even if you wait a month to contact him. But still, it's usually good to wait a small period like this to calm yourself down before talking about it).

[_Q_]

1 hour ago, ImDaMisterL said:

No, it's just that there is no way to prove if he outright copied you and/or simply modified the code and assets or not.

Maybe he did copy you and your assets. Maybe he never heard about your mod and had this idea, thus deciding to make it a thing. (And hey, just because a mod is really famous and/or popular, doesn't mean everyone knows about it, I've tired of seeing people with no idea what "Up & Away", "Hero in the Dark" or "Industrial Resolution" were, and these are really popular mods).

if you're so bugged by this, why not try to contact the mod's owner? You could inform him about your mod and try to clear up any misunderstanding and questions left behind. (Though I think it'd be wiser to give it some days, maybe a week before contacting him. You seem pretty irritated, and talking with him this soon COULD lead to some misunderstandings and arguements. Not saying this WILL happen if you talk to him soon, and not saying it won't even if you wait a month to contact him. But still, it's usually good to wait a small period like this to calm yourself down before talking about it).

Talking to them is pointless.

Not so long ago one even stole the whole code of the thing and added his graphics, you think he listened to normal reasoning?

Nah, he even reported me to steam for insulting his great mind, really now, I said what I think about it, and the subject is finished, I will maintain my mods for personal use.

Had plan to make something bigger, but now I must reconsider, as the time investment is not worth the effort, as all can be reposted by someone else, with some changes. I will use other engine to create something bigger. 

Then again it will be to the ground of the ideas, in other words I can go ahead and copy whole games, as long I have my own assets and code. 

This is really annoying.

On the other hand I know of copy of some game that got removed from google shop and other places on the request of developer of original game, despite the code and graphics differences on every clone.

As the game could not be copied so the other "dews" had to write it from the start, and still they were not allowed to publish it. World so strange.

[Kzisor]

9 minutes ago, _Q_ said:

Then again it will be to the ground of the ideas, in other words I can go ahead and copy whole games, as long I have my own assets and code. 

This is really annoying.

<sarcasm> The MMORPG market already beat you to the punch on that one. </sarcasm>

[_Q_]

5 minutes ago, Kzisor said:

<sarcasm> The MMORPG market already beat you to the punch on that one. </sarcasm>

I wont the looking on the workshop now and create every mod I need. No one will be able to prove I didnt steal it after all.

Its a good deal to take. You can expect some more similiar mods quite soon.