Rhymes with Play Ep. 53 - Don't Starve: Shipwrecked PAX Prime 2015 Demo

[UnionGaming]

More lore. It's don't starve 2 in my eyes

[Muflak]

...also you don't know all the features of the new expansion yet (new seasons, maybe no or different winter?). There could be more not fully compatible things with the old DS than just the water. And there will be many smaller things from DS and RoG that are hard to bring to Shipwrecked. For example I'm thinking of Chester. How could you jump in a boat when chester is following? Will he stay on the island etc?

 

For longterm survival I really wished that the expansion would be integrated in the old world - more content and more things to do when you at day 500. Its sad, but Klei will have their reasons.

[Grumble]

More lore. It's don't starve 2 in my eyes

 

Then what do you call DST? I thought that was looked at as sequel-like. And what about next year when Don't Starve Shipwrecked Together comes out as a standalone from DST? Will that be the fourth in this endless saga of slightly new repackaged content? 

 

And I sort of doubt it was their desire to add to or continue the lore in any significant way that lead them to the decision of a new game, when I imagine only a small portion of the playerbase knows or cares to know the existing lore.

[t0panka]

...also you don't know all the features of the new expansion yet (new seasons, maybe no or different winter?). There could be more not fully compatible things with the old DS than just the water. And there will be many smaller things from DS and RoG that are hard to bring to Shipwrecked. For example I'm thinking of Chester. How could you jump in a boat when chester is following? Will he stay on the island etc?

 

For longterm survival I really wished that the expansion would be integrated in the old world - more content and more things to do when you at day 500. Its sad, but Klei will have their reasons.

Yeah but we went from 4 seasons, 4 bosses, caves, ruins, adventure mode, etc. to what? Stronger wind? 3 biomes (4 with water)? Probably one boss? I hope they add MUCH MORE stuff so this can live as standalone

[Grumble]

...also you don't know all the features of the new expansion yet (new seasons, maybe no or different winter?). There could be more not fully compatible things with the old DS than just the water. And there will be many smaller things from DS and RoG that are hard to bring to Shipwrecked. For example I'm thinking of Chester. How could you jump in a boat when chester is following? Will he stay on the island etc?

 

For longterm survival I really wished that the expansion would be integrated in the old world - more content and more things to do when you at day 500. Its sad, but Klei will have their reasons.

 

 

i would be shocked if Chester wasnt in Shipwrecked, hes sort of a mascot at this point. We do know there are multiple boats, I imagine one of them is large enough for a follower or two.

[Muflak]

i would be shocked if Chester wasnt in Shipwrecked, hes sort of a mascot at this point. We do know there are multiple boats, I imagine one of them is large enough for a follower or two.

 

A new swimming Chester (or Chesters evil swimming twin) wouldn't suprise me at all

 

 

[Grumble]

...also you don't know all the features of the new expansion yet (new seasons, maybe no or different winter?). There could be more not fully compatible things with the old DS than just the water.

 

For what its worth, I am not upset about the amount of content. Shipwrecked could very well have a decent chunk of new stuff, and from what Ive seen so far it looks really fun, which is what makes the fact that its standalone an even harder pill to swallow.  I guess many of us imagined Dont Starve to be, I hate to make this comparison, akin to The Sims in a way, where you have a base game and then multiple expansions that further flesh out the world. Now if Shipwrecked was presented as a sequel, with evrything that comes with a sequel including a revamped engine, new and refined game mechanics, which REPLACE prior systems, then i wouldnt care that is a new seperate game. But the fact is, aside from a few new game mechanics the engine running the new game looks to be nearly identical, so much so that they are using existing peices of the original game as placeholders. So why not add it to the base game? I think thats why alot of people are confused.

[Quyzbuk]

And yet I find another topic where I am absolutely baffled as to why people are suddenly getting worked up over something. Have you all never played an expansion pack or something? You know, those things from the 90's which provided anywhere from half to nearly the full length of new gameplay time and content from the base game?

 

So it is standalone now, big whoop. There are plenty of reasons that SHOULD be obvious why they are going this direction, especially for those of us who watched the preview on the stream yesterday. 

 

- New gameplay mechanics and systems

 

What little we saw from the (rather clumsy) play - managing your boat health and navigating water hazards, adapting to new tropical seasons, items getting blown around and destroyed in the water from heavy winds, these are meant to be much more than just a simple modification of what exists in game already... which brings me to the next point...

 

- Deactivation / removal of old mechanics from the game engine

 

Some things just aren't going to be compatible, either with the new systems being put in place or the general environmental setting they are trying to convince us we are trying to survive in. Let's see what actually IS missing and/or replacing said missing things first before raising a fuss over it. Because let's not forget...

 

- We aren't seeing anywhere near everything planned

 

It is still a very early build, an alpha. There are plenty of things that can and will be changed/added/removed between now and when they feel it is ready for release. To not expect that a lot of things won't be intentionally kept secret to maintain the surprise factor and/or because they simply aren't in a game-ready state yet, is foolish. To also assume that there won't be any post-release content added or changes made based on player feedback, is teetering on insanity.

 

Douse those torches, put away the pitchforks, and cook up some cacti, let's see things for what they are. 

[Grumble]

I understand where you are coming from, I really do. However, there is no way you can't tell me that you aren't in the least bit disappointed at the potential that Shipwrecked's concept could have had on the base game. I say concept because obviously you are correct the execution was potentially way grander than what could have been allotted in a standard DLC. And really, I don't think anyone really asked for new Don't Starve content that encompassed a whole new game. I think somewhere along the way they started out making a dlc with all the main points in mind, new biomes, traversable sea, new characters..ect., and then somewhere along the way just went overboard,(see what I did there?) and we now have Shipwrecked. Which I am not arguing won't be great, fantastic even. But the truth of the matter is it will have the same main gameplay concept as the original, and just like DST, and potentially just like TtA. For an open world survival sandbox game wouldn't it be best since you are doing mostly the same thing, surviving, to have all of these gameplay experiences within the same game, even if it would require them to not be as ambitious with new content?

[Hundkerchief]

Have you all never played an expansion pack or something? You know, those things from the 90's which provided anywhere from half to nearly the full length of new gameplay time and content from the base game?

 

Are the games that used to propose that kind of standalone content close to the genre of Don't Starve, or could this nostalgic comparison be irrelevant here ?

[Quyzbuk]

Are the games that used to propose that kind of standalone content close to the genre of Don't Starve, or could this nostalgic comparison be irrelevant here ?

 

If you're going to take the completely close-minded route and imply that the genre is the end-all-be-all, then no. 

 

If you accept the notion that a game is defined by more than just its genre, then yes, it is completely relevant.

 

Either way I would argue that this game also falls under the 'sandbox' genre, in which case, examples like Grand Theft Auto 4's standalone "Episodes from Liberty City" content would still totally be relevant.

[Grumble]

If you're going to take the completely close-minded route and imply that the genre is the end-all-be-all, then no. 

 

If you accept the notion that a game is defined by more than just its genre, then yes, it is completely relevant.

 

Either way I would argue that this game also falls under the 'sandbox' genre, in which case, examples like Grand Theft Auto 4's standalone "Episodes from Liberty City" content would still totally be relevant.

 

Grand Theft Auto is a sandbox game but the goal of the game is divided in two parts being sandbox gameplay and progressing through a written narrative. In dlc expansions like that they include everything the base game had but with a new narrative. Thats hardly whats being done here.  Klei have every right to choose the approach and format for distributing new content, however its evident that they miscalculated alot of peoples expectations, which werent unreasonable by the way, when there was already a precedent set with ROG and, what with the vague way they introduced and talked about Shipwrecked in its beginning. 

[Quyzbuk]

Klei have every right to choose the approach and format for distributing new content, however its evident that they miscalculated alot of peoples expectations, which werent unreasonable by the way, when there was already a precedent set with ROG and, what with the vague way they introduced and talked about Shipwrecked in its beginning. 

 

Those same people are still going seemingly crazy over an ALPHA demo though, it's not even in beta yet.

 

It's also not helping matters with the insane conspiracies that you've tried to throw around in this thread. Yes I've read your grievances about it being a money-grabbing scheme, which it is very blatantly not. Do you even remember how much RoG cost when it first came out? It wasn't much, and do you remember how much it changed/added? This isn't a $60 game we're talking about here, stop acting like it is one. 

 

And splitting the game in half? Get real, there's only so much you can do without drastically altering the game, which they are also trying to do here. Do not presume to speak for all of us with your claims of "repackaged content" (I won't even touch on the level of entitlement that makes you think you have) and this thing being a standalone somehow making us long-term players feel alienated somehow. 

[UnionGaming]

Those same people are still going seemingly crazy over an ALPHA demo though, it's not even in beta yet.

 

It's also not helping matters with the insane conspiracies that you've tried to throw around in this thread. Yes I've read your grievances about it being a money-grabbing scheme, which it is very blatantly not. Do you even remember how much RoG cost when it first came out? It wasn't much, and do you remember how much it changed/added? This isn't a $60 game we're talking about here, stop acting like it is one. 

 

And splitting the game in half? Get real, there's only so much you can do without drastically altering the game, which they are also trying to do here. Do not presume to speak for all of us with your claims of "repackaged content" (I won't even touch on the level of entitlement that makes you think you have) and this thing being a standalone somehow making us long-term players feel alienated somehow. 

 

I'd prefer giving Wolly certain items would transport you into the Shipwrecked world, but I get what Klei are doing. It might be Capy's decision, not to flame them. But the way JoeW replied to my Wolly thread did kinda imply it was a DLC, so I guess people are mad it seems so sudden. I'm sure mods will do their stuff...

 

[Quyzbuk]

I'd prefer giving Wolly certain items would transport you into the Shipwrecked world, but I get what Klei are doing.

 

 

If they are changing as much as I suspect they are changing (with the whole activation of new things and deactivation/removal of others in the game engine), then all that would do is drastically increase development time (and cost) to appease the people, who will probably view it as a rather hamfisted way of bringing players to the content anyway.

 

I will not presume to speak for everyone, but I don't want to search for a portal just so I can access Shipwrecked content, I want to jump head-first into it. 

[Grumble]

Those same people are still going seemingly crazy over an ALPHA demo though, it's not even in beta yet.

 

It's also not helping matters with the insane conspiracies that you've tried to throw around in this thread. Yes I've read your grievances about it being a money-grabbing scheme, which it is very blatantly not. Do you even remember how much RoG cost when it first came out? It wasn't much, and do you remember how much it changed/added? This isn't a $60 game we're talking about here, stop acting like it is one. 

 

And splitting the game in half? Get real, there's only so much you can do without drastically altering the game, which they are also trying to do here. 

 

Sure the game is still in Alpha, but its set to realase in the fall (ie a couple months). Theyve stated theyve been working on it since before DST. They havent just started recently.

 

I have made no such conspiracies and know fully well the game wont be $60 upon release, I have no issue with money being a part of the decision, because it likely is, and if you dont think it is your are likely wrong. The simple fact of the matter is that there are 2 developers attatched to Shipwrecked and they want to split the net profits with as large an individual take as possible and in order to do this its likely easier to develop content that can be delivered to as wide an audience as possible (ie those who have never played DS before). a Standalone achieves this while at the same time allowing them to charge more. ($15 as opposed to $8) An added bonus is that they can eventually down the line port the standalone to existing platforms where DS also exists, including the lucrative mobile market where these kinds of practices are widely practiced.

 

Am I saying that these facts, because they are indeed facts, soley were responsible for the main desicion for the game? No. But I think they did help justify creating a standalone when the option arose.  And they have every right to make it a standalone which i have already stated, but it doesnt make the news any less dissapointing than it is for the potential it could have had. I mean i would be willing to purchase the game in whatever format they would like if it still was compatible woth ROG

[Quyzbuk]

I have made no such conspiracies and know fully well the game wont be $60 upon release, I have no issue with money being a part of the decision, because it likely is, and if you dont think it is your are likely wrong.

 

 

Either you didn't read, or you are rewording what I wrote to suit your own means there. I said stop acting like it is a $60 game, not that it is/was/will be one. And you very clearly DO have a problem with money based on the entirety of the post you made right here...

 

 

Honestly, I am super disappointed that this is well, lets just call it what it is a "spin-off" not an expansion.  I dont understand how this decison was made with the players in mind. What benefits could we possibly get with splitting the game in half? Obviously, I think the decison ultimaltey boils down to the fact that they are only concerned with the huge amount of money thry could possibly get with a stand alone versus dlc. They get to charge full price to PC users and eventually console users when they port it. And speaking of ports, look at their huge push to get Dont Starve onto mobile devices.  Mobile games largely do not do dlc, if they designed Shipwrecked to be integrated into ROG, it would have to come in the form of a free update to the mobile version whereas a standalone version allows them to just plonk it down on the app store at full price.

 

 

 

So stop trying to lie and man up to what YOU wrote.

 

The simple fact of the matter is that there are 2 developers attatched to Shipwrecked and they want to split the net profits with as large an individual take as possible and in order to do this its likely easier to develop content that can be delivered to as wide an audience as possible (ie those who have never played DS before). a Standalone achieves this while at the same time allowing them to charge more. ($15 as opposed to $8) An added bonus is that they can eventually down the line port the standalone to existing platforms where DS also exists, including the lucrative mobile market where these kinds of practices are widelt practiced. 

 

Am I saying that these facts...

 

 

No, that's not a simple fact, that's an opinion, speculation. Stating it as fact does NOT make it one. And again here you imply that they are making it a standalone so that they can charge more, not for any other reason whatsoever. 

 

Developing it as a standalone means they can dodge most of the bugs that would arise trying to fully integrate it into the DS RoG game when they aren't using everything that is in RoG and/or are changing things in the game engine. 

 

I mean i would be willing to purchase the game in whatever format they would like if it still was compatible woth ROG

 

Again, we all have no idea how much of RoG is already coming over with it, but it is safe to assume that a LOT of what was introduced in RoG, particularly the stuff that corrected exploits in the base game and made it more challenging, will be all present and accounted for.

[Grumble]

I have a background in economics and what I have stated regarding the possible sale of the game is feasible and sound reasoning as to why a standalone as opposed to a dlc would be produced. They are a business first, game company second so of course the players are immediatley their first priority. Granted I may have been rash in my first post when i first heard the news, but my anlysis still stands, with no ill will mind you.

 

Again, i am not saying money was the SOLE reason they developed a standalone. Of course there were other reasons like the bugs you mentioned which also helps cut development costs (although, ie, again money).  I think both developers have a huge passion for this franchise so much so that they potentially developed a whole games worth of content, which Ive stated looked fun. But by your own admission a large portion of the community has raised its pitchforks, using your words, so they clearly did not anticipate that people expected dlc-like content.

 

Regardless, I have voiced my opinion and dissapointment that its standalone, as have a lot of others. If its standalone its standalone, I have no doubt its going to be great, however i still maintain that the basic concept could have been implemented into the original DS.

[Quyzbuk]

But by your own admission a large portion of the community has raised its pitchforks, using your words, so they clearly did not anticipate that people expected dlc-like content.

 

That is not an admission, that is hyperbole.

[Grumble]

That is not an admission, that is hyperbole.

 

good on you for advancing the conversation in a meaningful way.

and by the way a phrase can be both an admission of what someone is saying as well as a hyperbole

[Quyzbuk]

good on you for advancing the conversation in a meaningful way.

and by the way a phrase can be both an admission of what someone is saying as well as a hyperbole

 

The rest of that sentence afterward became a very obvious Don't Starve joke, so no, it's NOT an admission, learn the difference.

 

 Douse those torches, put away the pitchforks, and cook up some cacti, let's see things for what they are.

 

Advance the conversation in a meaningful way? I already shot holes throughout your conspiracies here. Unless you want me to start shooting holes in your thinking that because you allegedly have a background in economics that you know exactly how every single business on the planet HAS to be run, whilst at the same time ignoring your multiple spelling errors and other fallacies, such as not knowing the difference between an admission and hyperbole, the ball is in your court now. 

[Grumble]

 

The rest of that sentence afterward became a very obvious Don't Starve joke, so no, it's NOT an admission, learn the difference.

 

 

Advance the conversation in a meaningful way? I already shot holes throughout your conspiracies here. Unless you want me to start shooting holes in your thinking that because you allegedly have a background in economics that you know exactly how every single business on the planet HAS to be run, whilst at the same time ignoring your multiple spelling errors and other fallacies, such as not knowing the difference between an admission and hyperbole, the ball is in your court now. 

 

Regardless if it was a joke or not, it was an admission, meaning that you admittited people were getting riled up even if you were using a joke to make the comparison. In other words, It was an expression made by you, using a joke, which is phrase, that people are overreacting. 

 

Im not sure why you are trying to personally attack me either when I have been nothing but civil. You act as if I am some troll that is going agaisnt the majority opinion, and If I were a lesser man I might say that it is ineed you who fits that bill, but I honestly and genuinely understand your reasoning as to why you prefer a standalone. I am just reiterating to you for what seems like the thousandth time that many people on the this forum, on the Dont Starve subreddit, who are mostly harcore and loving fans had thought and looked forward to Shipwrecked as an expansion to the base game and ROG.

[Grumble]

you are right about my spelling errors though, its incredibly hard to type on mobile. Ive been trying to edit them and accidently quoted my own post lol. 

[Quyzbuk]

 Regardless if it was a joke or not, it was an admission, meaning that you admittited people were getting riled up even if you were using a joke to make the comparison. In other words, It was an expression made by you, using a joke, which is phrase, that people are overreacting.

 

Admission - statement acknowledging the truth of something

 

Hyperbole - an exaggerated statement or claims not meant to be taken literally

 

The only thing that sentence did was say that people are overreacting, it is in no way admitting that people are actually raising pitchforks, that Klei did not anticipate people expecting DLC-like content, or any of that other stuff you claimed / are claiming that it is saying. I have no idea how people are reacting outside these forums because I avoid Reddit and similar sites like the plague. And that doesn't even touch on the fact that my original post in this thread was questioning the very point of why people getting riled up was happening anyway.

 

 

 

 Im not sure why you are trying to personally attack me either when I have been nothing but civil.

 

There is no personal attacking being done here, I'm not calling you an idiot, a lunatic, or anything else. What I am doing is telling you that the grounds you are making your stand on are unstable and flimsy at best, and imaginary at worst. The nature of an argument / debate is that someone is going to feel like their intelligence is being questioned, regardless of whether it actually is or not, simply because they are being told that what they believe and/or are backing, is wrong.

[Hundkerchief]

Oh please, I just think that making it additional content would serve more the game than making it a standalone.

 

There was no such thing as drama-conspiracy-Klei sellout-overthrow them, there was just some expectation which was finally not fulfilled.

 

Of course money is at stake, Klei is a company, they make profit, and pointing it as the probable and main reason of Shipwrecked being a standalone doesn't make us some whiny-conspirationist-anticapitalism-dramaqueens. 

 

If they would have followed their plans without taking care of any of the bad feedback, yes I would have seen it as disrespectful. 

They did take notice of it, because they still listen to their community and probably try to do their best (but still as part of a company).

Under any circumstances my intention was to be disrespectful towards them or to crucify them.  

 

But they're no gooroos, being all "luv u Klei u da best instabuy !!!" won't help much, and I think they had to know that a part of the community feel offended that they could have thought their decision was the best for the player.

Moreover I think most of the complainers tried to bring ways and suggestions to work it out and to find a compromise, so I find it a bit insulting to say it was all flaming and whining.