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Merging DS with DST?


DS and DST  

83 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think DS and DST should be merged into one game eventually?

    • Yes
      34
    • No
      49
  2. 2. Do you think that Single Player servers should eventually be possible for the host to convert them to multiplayer if they want to?

    • Yes
      51
    • No
      32


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@Kzisor, You could certainly get a rough approximately of single-player with an approach like that. Even a mod could do that pretty easily.

 

But there are a lot of other mechanical differences that, individually might be solvable with some thought and effort, but they'd really pile up, if you want to produce real parity. And why produce parity when there already is a separate single-player version of the game? Here's some cases:

  • Ghosts make no sense in single-player. This has ramifications in life-giving amulet mechanics, the portal, and especially meat effigy mechanics.
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  • Willow is a completely different character now.
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  • Gmoose, Deerclops, and Dragonfly mechanics. Bearger too, but his changes are less extreme.
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  • Old bell. Maybe this will be added to DST, though.
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  • Thermal stone mechanics.
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  • Fire propagation changes.
  •  

And then all the vanilla-vs-RoG differences... The devs basically avoided this entirely, and gave a vanilla-like mode. So they could give this a single-player-ish treatment too, in the way you're suggesting, but nothing to really replace Don't Starve as the authentic single-player experience whose design is really centered around that.

 

But then again, maintaining backward compatibility like that would always be a thorn in the development of new content, such as what's in Through the Ages.

 

But as I said before, the real nail in the coffin to the idea of complete integration is that the pricing structure has already been set.

 

The only mechanic that really plays a huge difference is Ghosts. Everything else might be put into DS in the future, we don't know. Honestly most of the DST changes to mechanics seems to be just as fitting to me in DS as they do in DST.

 

Pricing structure can and definitely does change over time with any game/company.

 

I think my point is that so many people think of this or that cannot be done or shouldn't be done when the truth is bringing the small amount of changes from DS and implementing them into DST with SP in mind isn't that difficult, the difficult part is making content compatible with multiple players.

 

As DarkXero pointed out this could also easily be done through another game mode.

 

@DarkXero you're over thinking it. You wouldn't bring all the DS content back you'd use the DST content, meaning fire's aren't instant. Dragonfly is in it's arena simply with less health, et cetra.

 

~Kzisor/Ysovuka

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@Kzisor,

I also said that you can't just switch a world between DS and ROG in singleplayer.

Or just switch between Survival and Endless in multiplayer.

 

This is just inviting bugs.

 

Also, worlds being created with mods and then opened without those mods can crash.

e.g Entering a modded character server, picking mod character, then the server removes the mod character.

You now can't enter the server unless your session gets resetted.

Who knows what can happen when you put all the files over the table?

 

For now, we wait.

This is not just "we put ifs and ayy lmao".

 

Edit:

You wouldn't bring all the DS content back you'd use the DST content, meaning fire's aren't instant. Dragonfly is in it's arena simply with less health, et cetra.

 

This is definitely not the way to go, specially if we already have the things separated.

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@Kzisor, All your points are a 'maybe' after DST, and, hopefully, Through the Ages is done. I could see these changes rolling out with Through the Ages, assuming they will add some content to single player with it. So that is what, maybe 6 months to a year away? I personally still don't think that would be worth it, but that's up to Klei of course.

 

I stand by my point that it is good that there is a version that is optimized and balanced for single player. If the game was made with multiplayer first, it most likely wouldn't be worth making one, but since it already exists I think it should keep existing. Especially for other platforms like PlayStation and Wii. DST might be doable on Playstation, most likely not on the Wii, so if Klei wants to keep supporting these and other possible platforms in the future they will still have to maintain the single-player version to some extent.

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@Kzisor,

Or just switch between Survival and Endless in multiplayer.

 

Actually this is wrong, you can indeed swap between Survival and Endless mode in multiplayer as long as you're using a dedicated server. The difference between the two modes is so insignificant that there shouldn't be any bugs produced by it as all the components are already applied for both game modes, just certain components aren't enabled.

 

What would be an accurate statement is "You cannot switch between Survival/Endless and Wilderness." as Wilderness game mode has no multiplayer portal.

 

From a technical standpoint swapping between all the modes could actually be possible as long as they added the ability to detect game modes to the multiplayer portal and make it only be invisible while in wilderness mode or custom game modes which disable it. Ghosts being enabled/disabled is already a toggle, so is how a player spawns in the world, as well as making the world respawnable.

 

~Kzisor/Ysovuka

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@Kzisor, well I tried swapping from survival to wilderness and back.

Wilderness gets the extra spawn points, but deletes the portal.

Survival keeps the corresponding initial spawn point, doesn't regenerate the portal.

 

You can change modes by altering the saveindex, it requires you then to restart the game.

 

By using TheNet:SetDefaultGameMode("wilderness"), some changes are not apparent because some values just get loaded once.

Like how I can use the portal to rez if I went from endless to wilderness. But the invalid_recipes do change.

The new mode doesn't stay if you log out and resume the server.

 

I concede that it's possible to switch gamemodes so the world doesn't break regarding spawn points.

 

I'm wrong in comparing switching gamemodes with switching in the proportions DS switches with ROG.

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@DarkXero, it's okay we all make mistakes. Now you can officially say you learned something today. ;)

 

 

 

This is definitely not the way to go, specially if we already have the things separated.

 

As for this, I don't view it as allowing players to play "single player" in DST as 'merging' DS with DST. I view it as allowing people whom wish to play by themselves the chance to without creating a balance issue. It wouldn't create balance issues because all you would change would be creature health. Most creature health is simply multiplied by 2 anyway to make it more "difficult" for multiplayer.

 

Players whom are new to the franchise view both games as the same, except for one "minor" difference. Don't Starve you play alone, Don't Starve Together you play with others. If that player joins a public server and they fail miserably they are less likely to even play Don't Starve, why? It's an additional download for the 'same' game.

 

If there was an option to play a more 'single player' server which reduces mobs health, these people might be more inclined to actually play the game to get better rather than simply giving up on the franchise.

 

As I stated before, after Caves, Ruins, Adventure Mode and World Hopping are added the only major difference is mob health. Yes certain mechanics are different, but honestly some of them needed to be changed due to exploits (fire specifically).

 

This is only my opinion and can be taken with a grain of salt.

 

~Kzisor/Ysovuka

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If that player joins a public server and they fail miserably they are less likely to even play Don't Starve, why? It's an additional download for the 'same' game.

 

Compelling argument.

 

As I stated before, after Caves, Ruins, Adventure Mode and World Hopping are added the only major difference is mob health. Yes certain mechanics are different, but honestly some of them needed to be changed due to exploits (fire specifically).

 

It's still better to just put another tuning file and a listener on player joining to edit the health of creatures, instead of an unnecessary merge.

 

Some people like vanilla DS. DST already implemented ROG and forced people to adapt to mechanic changes.

We still see threads in the steam forum saying "how do i disable rog". Keep vanilla, vanilla.

 

But Klei makes the last call in ditching Don't Starve as obsolete and making DST bring the new single player experience.

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@DarkXero, it's like you didn't even read my original post...

 

 

@rezecib, I can see the other side of this argument once Caves, Ruins, and possibly Adventure Mode and World hopping are added.

  • Modify a single option on world edit - number of players.
    • Make the minimum 1.
    • If 1 player is selected use tuning_single_player.lua.

    • If not 1 player is selected use tuning.lua.


The only real difference between the two games, after they add (Caves, Adventure Mode and World hopping), when you only have 1 player is the amount of health mobs have. Simply copy/paste the tuning file from single player, add the new item data to it, modify it to be for one player and viola single player in DST.

 

Swapping between maximum number of players on server, has already been answered in the bullet points.

 

Thoughts?

 

~Kzisor/Ysovuka

 

 

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@Kzisor, yes, but I was thinking of switching modes while ingame.

You start a world, and if you build a jury rigged portal, you get to activate it and allow incoming connections?

So you don't need to reload the world with the toggles or things that get checked when they are used.

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@Kzisor, yes, with TheNet:SetDefaultMaxPlayers(num).

 

But we can't just switch the tuning files. We need to change the number, then exit and resume the server.

 

If I have a deerclops with X health, and I'm alone, and a player joins, then the health wouldn't change.

 

Unless you have a listener to pick up that event and adjust the health of everything to the new tuning file value while keeping the current health percent.

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As for this, I don't view it as allowing players to play "single player" in DST as 'merging' DS with DST. I view it as allowing people whom wish to play by themselves the chance to without creating a balance issue. It wouldn't create balance issues because all you would change would be creature health. Most creature health is simply multiplied by 2 anyway to make it more "difficult" for multiplayer.

What about people who like the larger health values, would there be an additional option to play alone with multi-player values? Or would I be the one who needs to mod it at that point, just as people can mod them to be single-player values now?

 

-edit-

I also think it would be a really bad decision to be able to change them in game...

 

"Hey guys, deerclops is coming. Can you all leave so his health is lower?"

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