Revoking access from griefers

[Nickboom]

Like it says, if enough people can prove someone has griefed via pictures or testomony their access to the beta should be revoked. Its insane that people manage to get keys and then think the best way to help is to grief the testers.

[Quady14]

Totally valid points you make here, but I do want to play the devil's advocate just a tiny bit and offer that perhaps letting griefers test the limits of DST's griefing capacity during beta may even help the devs pinpoint issues and possibly create work-arounds to make some griefing techniques less damaging\harder to execute. We're kind of early-access guinea pigs as it stands anyways. Better it happens to us now and gets remedied before full release than waiting for it to happen then instead.

I realize we'll never be able to deal with the torching of a base without hurting some necessary game functionality, but there could still be valid fixes for things like important items, say if teleportato pieces and eyebones are automatically dropped from your inventory before you leave a server, preventing a masterless Chester or inescapable world. I do second that we try to capture griefers in action, as seeing how a griefing scenario works in motion is likely a big help to the devs in seeing what is hopefully an uncommon behavior and working in ways to downgrade a griefer's potential to harm other players' experiences. As another example, maybe structures lit by a torch take at least a minute just smoldering before they catch ablaze and turn to ash, then you have a better chance to save your precious Shadow Manipulator from a sadistic firebug. Maybe even implement some strange arcane fire detecting structure to let loose a siren if something dangerous is brewing in your base's range (use the circular detection the ice fling-o-magic uses).

[Isosurface]

letting griefers test the limits of DST's griefing capacity

 

No.

 

Anyone with a creative mind can think of ways to grief. You don't need actual griefers in order to do the test. Also, griefing is only one of many things that rquires testing, you don't want to turn every single server into a griefing-testing server.

 

[Quady14]

No.

 

Anyone with a creative mind can think of ways to grief. You don't need actual griefers in order to do the test. Also, griefing is only one of many things that rquires testing, you don't want to turn every single server into a griefing-testing server.

 

 

I wasn't saying to turn every single server into a griefing-testing server, I was just saying maybe there's some value in letting people grief during the beta rather than revoking their ability to play at all. Kicking/banning them from a server is fine but I don't think completely removing them from beta access is going to do anything but offer a temporary fix to a long-term problem, and in a closed-beta no less, where anything either good or bad ought to be tested and documented at least a couple times.

 

Unintentionally or not, griefers will help us deal with identifying the problems now rather than later when there will inevitably be a lot more people doing a lot more of the same stuff anyways. In response to your statement that, "Anyone with a creative mind can think of ways to grief. You don't need actual griefers in order to do the test." that may be true but for a lot of people they just want to play the game normally, not grief for testing purposes. Maybe some of the people griefing currently are doing it for just this reason: To test their ability to do so. Griefing sucks, but even still it's a little too harsh and counterproductive to revoke their access entirely. Better find out the major issues, nip them in the butt here and let the devs create universal fixes rather than just boot out individuals for griefing, because there will always be more griefers, but the less they can do to screw other players over when the time of full release comes, the better.

[jbeetle]

It's simply not worth the developers' time to police the public/non-passworded-protected servers. What IS worth their time is reading suggestions of ways to fix the griefing in the suggestions subforum (and in some cases the bug report subforum)

[Nickboom]

Never said that, I said if people can give evidence to *prove* theres a griefer on the game they could probably easily take away that sign up you have to do at the start. The point is to TEST not to have some jerk come in and burn stuff. Although I agree ways to limit griefing would be good as well and more important for the long run.

[Pyromailmann]

We're kind of early-access guinea pigs as it stands anyways.

OH BOY I'M A GUINEA PIG

[jbeetle]

When I say "police" I don't mean go on the servers and make sure there's no funny business. I mean handling reports of griefing, so it is what you mean, I believe. also, it'd be pretty easy to grief the report system just by getting someone to burn trees around your base, record it, and say they did it on their own.

[Hugo M.]

Bleh, that's a fairly temporary way to solve the griefing problem. It'd be better if we just got their IPs, tracked their houses, killed them and then moved on.

[Clwnbaby]

It looks like there must have been a wave of grief yesterday.  Sign on today and first thing I see are 4 topics all on griefing.

[Pyromailmann]

It looks like there must have been a wave of grief yesterday.  Sign on today and first thing I see are 4 topics all on griefing.

Eh, it's been a few days and these were floating around. Klei has at least added /kick so if they presist, keep kicking them.

[Zoey]

This is a horrible idea because it's quite easy to fake evidence of someone griefing, sockpuppet and pretend to be a bunch of people, and use this very antigrief system to grief other people by getting them banned or their access revoked.

 

It would also allow a relatively small group of assholes get other people in trouble who haven't actually done anything.

 

This sort of thing has been suggested before for other games and private servers for them, and it's a horrible idea every time.

[Hellkitty]

This is a horrible idea because it's quite easy to fake evidence of someone griefing, sockpuppet and pretend to be a bunch of people, and use this very antigrief system to grief other people by getting them banned or their access revoked.

 

It would also allow a relatively small group of assholes get other people in trouble who haven't actually done anything.

 

This sort of thing has been suggested before for other games and private servers for them, and it's a horrible idea every time.

 

I thought about this, maybe tying the person playing DST to a forum account to be able to "protest". I also thought about temporary bans as well. But I think they are just going to focus on creating a ban feature for hosts to be able to control this for their servers.

 

Perhaps, in general for Server hosters they can make a list of individual's to watch out for (Maybe with an explanation) and they can use their list to ban as well. Make a post on the forums and so others can choose to add them to their list etc. And if someone feels wronged they can "protest" or say their peace? *shrugs*  Just a thought.

[SageKun]

You can't revoke access from a steam game, I don't know if don't starve is your first game ever, but griefing as been apart of any sandbox multiplier game since sandbox multiplier games

[Zoey]

I thought about this, maybe tying the person playing DST to a forum account to be able to "protest". I also thought about temporary bans as well. But I think they are just going to focus on creating a ban feature for hosts to be able to control this for their servers.

 

Perhaps, in general for Server hosters they can make a list of individual's to watch out for (Maybe with an explanation) and they can use their list to ban as well. Make a post on the forums and so others can choose to add them to their list etc. And if someone feels wronged they can "protest" or say their peace? *shrugs*  Just a thought.

 

See, you don't quite understand.  This is a horrible idea.  It has been tried before, on other games, in other communities, and it is a horrible idea because it a) doesn't stop people from griefing in the first place, and b) opens up whole new avenues for griefing.

 

Under your proposed scheme, griefers can still join servers and grief.  Or they can fake evidence of someone else griefing to get them banned, and who is going to believe the protestations of a 'proved' griefer?

 

It does absolutely nothing to solve the problem, and actually increases it.

[Nickboom]

Yes but see this isnt a full game. Its a CLOSED BETA meaning access is controlled. I'm not talking DELETE the steam game I'm talking burn that account thing you have to set up at the start in order to play. Now I agree that the system wont really work in its current form but then at least make it easier to handle the damage done by griefers before I ban them. Such as restoring all burnt items with a simple button push (with in the current day) or restoring chests to a state yesterday. And for gods sake make it easier to ban said fucktards by having a button for it like the kick but it combines both functions.

[Hellkitty]

Eh. If the host himself is a griefer I wouldn't want to go on their server anyway. But I was thinking more if several hosters (qualified/ "validated" ones) all go, "Hey that IP/person is familiar, and I've had problems with him too!" They could make a list, listing all of the occurrences they've had with that person. If that person wants to contest they surely can. If you can show evidence/ screenshot / video proof. Maybe make that mandatory to for a for sure throw them on the list. Pretty hard to contest video evidence to try to say, "I'm are innocent!" when you're caught red handed lighting everything on fire and stealing things etc. I don't know how easy it is to fake evidence of that. Just more or less like a, "Hey we all are seeing this person going on a grief spree at the moment, be warned!" If the host is worried that people are being unjustly banned, OR there is not sufficient evidence for them, they don't need to take part and ban anyone. It's not mandatory.

But in any case a griefer causing problems for an individual server will/can be banned. If the host does not like a person and wants to ban them for any reason, I'm sure they'll be allowed to. It's up to the host in the end, I would assume? The idea is to just try to limit the occurrences from happening to other unknowing hosters, who don't want to deal with griefers. I've seen it happen in other games and its worked out especially between hosters who know and trust each other well.

 

I was thinking about an option on the server menu that if a host actually wants griefing, they can select that and anyone can go there and grief all they want to

 

I'm just reminded of like reviews on the internet, if your looking for hotel, restaurant, lawyers, movies, doctors etc. They all have good and bad reviews, some even unjust. It happens.

 

In the end though, its all gonna wittle down to what the host decides.

[Hellkitty]

Yes but see this isnt a full game. Its a CLOSED BETA meaning access is controlled. I'm not talking DELETE the steam game I'm talking burn that account thing you have to set up at the start in order to play. Now I agree that the system wont really work in its current form but then at least make it easier to handle the damage done by griefers before I ban them. Such as restoring all burnt items with a simple button push (with in the current day) or restoring chests to a state yesterday. And for gods sake make it easier to ban said fucktards by having a button for it like the kick but it combines both functions.

 

Not sure if you saw this post http://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/42249-i-cant-believe-griefing-is-a-problem-already/page-2#entry554822  but this is the solution they said they were working on. Kick/Ban + Roll back idea.

[Slynx]

such a bad idea... just make "important" things drop-able on log out and problem solved.

it's a game about survival, not whining about some jerk that burned your base and 've stolen your nightmare fuel from the chests

[Khrayfish]

If you think about it; the Griefers are creating a situation for us to test out.

 

This is valuable feedback for the developers.

[Pyromailmann]

such a bad idea... just make "important" things drop-able on log out and problem solved.

it's a game about survival, not whining about some jerk that burned your base and 've stolen your nightmare fuel from the chests

It's being done. SethR announced that a kick system is in place. But is still being worked on. Here let me paraphrase it for you: "We added a kick button. A ban button is on the way. We'll make it so when you kick someone you can roll back to an earlier save to revert damage caused. Kicked/Banned players will drop any items in their inventory."

[Slynx]

It's being done. SethR announced that a kick system is in place. But is still being worked on. Here let me paraphrase it for you: "We added a kick button. A ban button is on the way. We'll make it so when you kick someone you can roll back to an earlier save to revert damage caused. Kicked/Banned players will drop any items in their inventory."

answered abut kick\ban+rollback there:

http://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/42249-i-cant-believe-griefing-is-a-problem-already/?p=557802

 

ps:

when i first discovered about multiplayer in DS i was exited. i thought! wow! it'll be cool.

but ow i think that i'm glad that i haven't got a key (basically because i knew about DST too late i think)

community is getting so poisonous that it destroys all will to play with strangers. i'm starting to think that i'd better play with a "griefer" that can\will destroy my base or steal my stuff (as long as he will not flee from the server with it) then with someone from the community who suggest reporting\banning\roll-nacking.

 

DST quickly transforming from the game of a dream (i even wanter to ask\trade for a key some time ago) to the game that i'll play only with some friends i know irl.

that's sad.

[Khrayfish]

You guys are getting the wrong idea.

 

I'm going to leave this here:

 

 

Joined a random server.

 

 

Pros:

- Met a player called HeroInBrine

- Met a few other players (Had 4 players at all times)

- Found it to be very difficult (Much harder than Solo Vanilla)

- Everyone was friendly (Out of about 6-8 people, no one griefed)

- Teamwork was essential for survival

- Good chat system, already set up with Whispering

- Hunger is almost at a perfect rate (Could do with a few tweaks though, bit too fast at the moment)

 

 

Cons:

- ~80 ping but noticeable delay/lag (UK based host)

- Death was quite difficult to avoid, but at the same time quite easy come back again

- Mob's increased HP is making them feel like a slight grind (It may be a tad too high atm)

- Chat Box got a little suffocating at times (Too big)

- Whisper mode a bit useless

- Shadow Mobs are too difficult, especially considering how they behave as well (Upgrade their damage and keep their health Vanilla + Remember that only insane players can see them; no teamwork applicable)

- Sleeping was nice but I feel that hunger drops too fast.

 

 

Overall though, it felt like a Don't Starve game.

It was more challenging than the Vanilla, no idea how you achieved this but bloody hell, nice work.

Extremely happy with the direction it's heading.

http://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/42852-dont-starve-together-first-play/?p=557754

 

 

 

On the proper subject of things, Naming and Shaming should not occur, if anything, tell the Devs/Mods about specific members of the community.

Personally I think that having Griefers allows for a good amount of testing revolving griefers.

[Slynx]

You guys are getting the wrong idea.

 

I'm going to leave this here:

 

 

 

http://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/42852-dont-starve-together-first-play/?p=557754

 

 

 

On the proper subject of things, Naming and Shaming should not occur, if anything, tell the Devs/Mods about specific members of the community.

Personally I think that having Griefers allows for a good amount of testing revolving griefers.

good example of right behavior. but we were talking about griefers i think.

when you meet a griefer he already 've done something bad to you. so banning\kicking will not change the act that you are already upset.

but it opens possibilities to more types of griefing or abusing the system

 

anyway i'm glad that you were fortunate to find a good company to play with

[Khrayfish]

Fire needs to be discussed:

 

At the moment, the most common way to grief people is by burning stuff.

Burning Berry Bushes / Grass / Twigs / Forests.

 

Now the issue with this is that you can't disable fire spread as fire is part of the game that aims to add challenges (Especially when RoG comes into play)

The other issue is that you can't disable use of Torch burning because the players need to be able to obtain Ash and Charcoal, both of which require burning stuff to obtain.

 

 

Now I can't think of a direct solution to this.

But this does need to be discussed in order to find one.

 

3... 2... 1... Discuss!