Where To Draw The Line?

[Gwandic]

  Well guys, I think the title is pretty much self-explanatory. But what I want to talk about is, where is the line of "Modding" and cheating? From what I think, anything that's GameBreaking (making it easier to live) is cheating. However that's just my public opinion and I know for sure a ton of people will not agree with me. I think that if it's available currently, it's not cheating, even if it's Overpowered. (Such as old Strongman)

 

 

   What do you guys think? Can't wait to see some good discussions going!

 

        -Gwandic, Alpha player of Don't Starve.

[ARamblingSpider]

I'm not even sorry that I'm such a smart Butt.

[Battal]

I'm not even sorry that I'm such a smart Butt.

It's not how, it's where.

[Silentdarkness1]

This line is imaginary. Whether something is, in a single player only game, cheating or not, depends on your opinion of what constitutes a cheat.

 

Although i'd call mini tools cheats.

[Rosten]

I'd say mods that add things that, instead of adding new ways to play the game, just make a part of a game extremely easy to deal with, take hound poison for instance, it has a recipe that is easy to make, only kills hounds, and lasts forever, making the hounds completely irellevant,

[simplex]

It's a single player game. Play how you want to play.

Being a roguelike, using mods, console commands or whatever to make your live too easy (or even easier at all, depending on your preferences) will likely make the game boring. But that's the only "line" I see, and it's a subjective one.

I don't like using any mods which make the game easier, but that's just my favored playstyle.

[HoneyHam]

As long as it's not OP. Like if something is powerful, but hard to make, that's okay. Aesthetic mods are okay, but anything OP is not okay.

[simplex]

I'd say mods that add things that, instead of adding new ways to play the game, just make a part of a game extremely easy to deal with, take hound poison for instance, it has a recipe that is easy to make, only kills hounds, and lasts forever, making the hounds completely irellevant,

One could also argue that past day 150-200 hounds are no challenge, just an utter nuisance encouraging turtling in a base. So, even for a mod like Hound Poison, it boggles down to how it affects your playstyle, and if you find that effect to be an improvement or not.

EDIT: Sorry for the double post, I meant it to glue to the previous one but took far too long.

[Ortorin]

You know, I've been wanting to make a post along the same lines as this topic. Here's my review of the mods I've played in this theme.

 

Always on Status

You can see the numbers for your three faculties: hunger, sanity, and health. This offers no other benefit than quicker recognition of the levels of each faculty. Not a cheat mod at all.

Cheat Level, 0 out of 10.

 

*edit* If you only use those features. The body temperature gauge and naughtiness meter give the play a little too much information.

Cheat Level, 4 out of 10.

 

Architectural Geometry

This mod makes it easier to place object on a grid. This gives the ability to make neat, orderly rows for farms, walls, chest, or anything else you want to place. This just makes you a cheater at interior decorating.

Cheat Level, 1 out of 10.

 

Auto Equip

Makes switching to a different tool or weapon automatic. You can switch from a torch to an axe and back again by simply holding and release the space key. This makes cutting wood and mining much easier in the dark. You may never worry about Charlie again if you keep a torch in your inventory.

 

Weapon switching is equally easy. Carry your walking cane during battle, switching back and forth when you hold and release the F key.

 

Now, in order to call this mod OP you actually have to get good at taking advantage of the switching mechanics. It takes practice and a little skill to switch between a spear and cane mid-fight while kiting. I believe the practice necessary to utilize this mod in cheating ways brings it down on the Cheat Level, 4 out of 10.

 

Backpack and Amulet Mod

Adds two slot to your inventory that are dedicated to hold backpacks and amulets. This adds the ability to carry more items through battles with ease, and increasing stats or powers with amulets at the same time. Not OP, this really adds a natural feel to items when compared to how RPGs and other games play. Compared to vanilla Don't Starve though, a strong cheat. (one that I use with pride.)

Cheat Level, 6 out of 10,

 

Beebox Friendly Abigail

Makes it so Abigail will not attack the bees that come out of a beebox during harvesting until you attack back. This mod feels almost necessary if you want to keep up honey. I think this is more of a fix than a cheat.

Cheat Level, 3 out of 10

 

Better Compass

Revels the whole map while you hold the compass in your hand. Great that it adds a function to the useless compass, but a total cheat.

Cheat Level, 10 out of 10.

 

Camplight

Adds three craftable structures to the magic tab with unlimited light. Does not provide heat or cooking ability, and they also have rather steep recipes. If you don't mind paying the price, constant light becomes an OP bonus.

Cheat Level, 8 out of 10.

 

Dawn Break

Splits dusk in half and shifts one half of it after night. There is also a rare spawn of a glowing butterfly during dawn that gives one gold nugget if caught.

 

This mod is on the fence if it's a cheat or not. On one hand, being able to shave Beefalos easier is a bonus, the other hand, that's really the only bonus. You still lose sanity and heat at dusk rates during dawn. I feel this is more of a play preference than anything. I like it, but I don't play with it anymore.

Cheat Level, 3 out of 10.

 

Don't Stop the Music

It plays the busy music through the daytime

Cheat Level, 9001 out of 10 [/sarcasm]

 

Everything Burns!

Items like tools, armor and cooked food become burnable. This normal just makes my campfire a trashcan more than giving any real bonus of burning material. All and all, not that cheaty.

Cheat Level, 2 out of 10.

 

Faster Followers

Makes any mob following you close to walking cane speed. Sure it is nicet to make them keep up with you, but it takes away from the feeling of leading these slow bastards around. Also OPs combat since they can run like the wind while kiting.

Cheat Level, 10 out of 10

 

Flashlight Mod (Vanilla Version)

Adds a light source with full screen radius. Strong crafting recipe and fuel usage, but still makes night-time too easy. I only use it when I play as WX-78, He's already OP with upgrades so I just count this as his "night vision" upgrade. =D

Cheat Level, 9 out of 10

 

Freezer

Adds a tier-two icebox to the game with, something like, 135 days keepage for foods. Really makes food spoilage a non-issue, so still really cheating no mater which recipe you use. (I made a recipe for download in the comments of this mod)

Cheat Level, 7 out of 10

 

Insainillumination.

Changes the mechanics of the night lights so that they do not drain sanity while on, but they will drain a portion of sanity to re-ignite after they extinguish. If you play as Maxwell, like I do, the sanity drain is a non-issue and this makes a really powerful light source. Any other character may have to be careful going near the light when it is out if low on sanity or lacing sanity boosting items.

 

I'd call this a good remake instead of a cheat.

Cheat Level, 2 out of 10.

 

MapPortato

Reveals the entire map once the teleportato has been fully constructed. By the time you have constructed the machine, you've had to run around your entire map anyways, so not that strong of a cheat. Adds an interesting reward to the experience, and makes constructing the teleportato worth doing if you never plan to move on to another world.

Cheat Level, 4 out of 10.

 

OneTimeFertilizer

Bushes and grass will only need to be fertilized once their entire lives. Since this creates a "poop and forget" system for the vegetation, this can be considered a heavy cheat compared to vanilla. If you never live that long anyways, this doesn't offer that much of a benefit.

Cheat Level, 6 out of 10.

 

I'll review more later.

[simplex]

Always on Status

You can see the numbers for your three faculties: hunger, sanity, and health. This offers no other benefit than quicker recognition of the levels of each faculty. Not a cheat mod at all.

Cheat Level, 0 out of 10.

I'd say being able to see body temperature and naughtiness levels (mostly the former) does give an advantage to the player which wouldn't be present without it, so under your sense of "Cheat Level" I wouldn't put it at 0. Not that I see it as detracting from the mod, though.

[Ortorin]

I'd say being able to see body temperature and naughtiness levels (mostly the former) does give an advantage to the player which wouldn't be present without it, so under your sense of "Cheat Level" I wouldn't put it at 0. Not that I see it as detracting from the mod, though.

 

Oh crap, I forgot about those features. I only use the numbers for sanity, health, and hunger.

 

Cheat level, 6 out of 10.

[Rosten]

Oh crap, I forgot about those features. I only use the numbers for sanity, health, and hunger.

 

Cheat level, 6 out of 10.

I'd put it at a 4 honestly, since you already have a pretty good sense of when you're about to die from freezing, all it does is give you a more precise measurement, naughtiness hardly ever comes into play unless you want it to, so thats not to cheaty either

[gnarlytreeman]

lets be honest mods are all cheats for different things, all of them impact play style, and by doing so change the original intended game experience. 

 

I do think the always on status, and some sort of architectural geometry should be added directly into the game, i however don't use any mods and choose to play stock, mostly because i tried the picky picky mod, max stacks, and the diggable reeds, and between them they completely broke gameplay. (picky picky being loads more powerful than most people think) 

 

After that experience i'm glad i had a few month break from the game, because the broken game play experience wasn't as fresh, and i've been able to go back to the stock game and really enjoy the experience.

[TeoSS69]

Backpack and Amulet Mod

Adds two slot to your inventory that are dedicated to hold backpacks and amulets. This adds the ability to carry more items through battles with ease, and increasing stats or powers with amulets at the same time. OP. Gives the ability to always wear The Life Giving Amulet and never fear death thus making effigies worhtless, also get sanity bonuses with amulets while also being protected, a perk that you had to explore the ruins to get. Not to mention that it gives you additional free inventory slots that would've been otherwise used by amulets and armor.

Cheat Level, 8 out of 10,

 

 

Everything Burns!

Items like tools, armor and cooked food become burnable. This normal just makes my campfire a trashcan more than giving any real bonus of burning material. All and all, not that cheaty.

Cheat Level, -10 out of 10.

 

Faster Followers

Makes any mob following you close to walking cane speed. This doesn't affect the game as followers already keep up with you now and teleport to you if you g Also OPs combat since they can run like the wind while kiting.

Cheat Level, 10 out of 10

 

Flashlight Mod (Vanilla Version)

Adds a light source with full screen radius. Strong crafting recipe and fuel usage, but still makes night-time too easy. I only use it when I play as WX-78, He's already OP with upgrades so I just count this as his "night vision" upgrade. =D

Cheat Level, 9 out of 10

 

Freezer

Adds a tier-two icebox to the game with, something like, 135 days keepage for foods. Really makes food spoilage a non-issue, so still really cheating no mater which recipe you use. (I made a recipe for download in the comments of this mod)

Cheat Level, 20 out of 10

 

Insainillumination.

Changes the mechanics of the night lights so that they do not drain sanity while on, but they will drain a portion of sanity to re-ignite after they extinguish. If you play as Maxwell, like I do, the sanity drain is a non-issue and this makes a really powerful light source. Any other character may have to be careful going near the light when it is out if low on sanity or lacing sanity boosting items.

 

It makes use of an easily replenishable stat instead of a hard to get resource, so it's cheaty.

Cheat Level, 6 out of 10.

 

 

 

OneTimeFertilizer

Bushes and grass will only need to be fertilized once their entire lives. Since this creates a "poop and forget" system for the vegetation, this can be considered a heavy cheat compared to vanilla. If you never live that long anyways, this doesn't offer that much of a benefit.

Cheat Level, 8 out of 10.

 

FTFY. Also does the Dawnbreak mod make it easier to get blue mushrooms?

And as for the cheaty mods. You just lose all your bragging rights and make easy a game that main appeal's the hard difficulty.

It's like buying Dark Souls and cheat your way through. Why buy in the first place?

When I click on most rated mods in the workshop and see that the top ones are either OP anime characters or cheat mods like 99 stacks, I lose all hope in DS players.

[Ortorin]

 

FTFY. Also does the Dawnbreak mod make it easier to get blue mushrooms?

And as for the cheaty mods. You just lose all your bragging rights and make easy a game that main appeal's the hard difficulty.

It's like buying Dark Souls and cheat your way through. Why buy in the first place?

When I click on most rated mods in the workshop and see that the top ones are either OP anime characters or cheat mods like 99 stacks, I lose all hope in DS players.

 

Yes, it is easier to harvest blue mushrooms. *edit* it's also harder to harvest green mushrooms. And really, the green ones are the one you want, so it evens out.

 

Ya know man, I'd like to hear your take on some of these. If you got a review or two to share please do. 

(instead of just copy pasta on mine xD)

[Ortorin]

Each of these mods might be able to be seen as cheating when view from a certain angle. I believe that there is a different viewpoint to this.

 

This game is a singular experience of play. There is no competition to this game other than surviving against the world you play. Any talk about pro players kicking butt in vanilla, or noobs taking the easy route with mods is irrelevant.

 

Don't starve is a game you play by yourself. Each player plays their own unique way, making no two playthroughs the same between anyone. We will all make different choices in the same situations, or we might do the same thing, just with different implementations.

 

What's important is that we enjoy the experiences we have while we play. Many can play the vanilla game and enjoy it greatly. Awesome. You guys enjoy the work that Klei has done more than anyone else. This company should be proud of the game they have made. 

 

There are others that have a less enjoyable time playing the vanilla game. Everyone has different tastes, play styles, game knowledge, ideas, and experience when they play. The point of mods is to change the game a little bit to make the play experience more unique to what you enjoy playing.

 

That's all that matter: everyone should ENJOY playing the game. Mods make them more enjoyable for a wilder range of gamers.

 

So get off your high horse about mods being cheats, and try to add some constructive criticism into making mods that would make YOUR play experience better and not be "cheats". Then we can have a group of "Vanilla Friendly" non-cheat mods that would make this game even better for even more people.

 

Help us support spreading this game to everyone. The mods that vanilla gamers come up with would really make this game shine. Making one of the greatest games ever made even greater. We can put this game in the history books by creating some of the best mods a game has ever had.

 

*gets off his soapbox*

 

 

*edit*

This is the post I was talking about when I said this line in my first post:

"You know, I've been wanting to make a post along the same lines as this topic."

[gnarlytreeman]

no lets really not mamby pamy around here, and "to each their own gaming experience" bs eachother.

 

if you use a mod, it breaks gameplay and is a cheat, there simple. if you enjoy cheating just admit that you enjoy cheating and move on but don't try to smear the lines.

 

and it's not all about being "high horse" either, what it comes down to for example the base camp thread....... how many people built those bases using mods and how many didn't, if you look closely at the pic, almost all of the pics include loaded mods...... or the author admitted using a mod to help set things up, point being it's a lot harder to do vanilla, so a massive modded base..... not so much effort to make. (with max stacks and picky picky you can dig up almost a whole biome and stick it in your pack...... talk about an easy base)

 

vanilla vs mod usually comes down to a large difference in amounts of effort to achieve the same goal, vanilla being much harder, unless someone is playing low resource maps via _Q_'s mods(not sure if that is supported anymore)

 

if you mod you cheat, just admit you like cheating

[Ortorin]

no lets really not mamby pamy around here, and "to each their own gaming experience" bs eachother.

 

if you use a mod, it breaks gameplay and is a cheat, there simple. if you enjoy cheating just admit that you enjoy cheating and move on but don't try to smear the lines.

 

and it's not all about being "high horse" either, what it comes down to for example the base camp thread....... how many people built those bases using mods and how many didn't, if you look closely at the pic, almost all of the pics include loaded mods...... or the author admitted using a mod to help set things up, point being it's a lot harder to do vanilla, so a massive modded base..... not so much effort to make. (with max stacks and picky picky you can dig up almost a whole biome and stick it in your pack...... talk about an easy base)

 

vanilla vs mod usually comes down to a large difference in amounts of effort to achieve the same goal, vanilla being much harder, unless someone is playing low resource maps via _Q_'s mods(not sure if that is supported anymore)

 

if you mod you cheat, just admit you like cheating

 

So what?!

 

Do you want people to have a worst time in their life playing this game than you? Do you need to be on better than other people just because they play differently? We are all living our own lives where we are independent people with the right to do whatever we damn well please.

 

Why is there this need to look down upon other in human society? What is wrong with letting others live their own life without judging them? You do not live their life, you live your own as well. We do not judge you EXCEPT on the fact that you judged us first.

 

If you belittle a group of people so that you feel more superior to other, do it quietly to your self please. We are living our own damn lives and we do not need your negative attitude interfering.

 

Quit being mod-player-ist!

 

Modding is NOT about cheating. It is about one of the more basic human desires: the desire to make things around them better. It is sharing ideas and taking part in the video-game creation process. All of which can help to enhance the game for others to play. If you can't except that and want to call us persecuting nick-names, look down upon us for our lifestyle, and try to belittle our own accomplishments by stating yours as superior. Just GTFO... don't need to hear it.

 

Be constructive. Not hateful or self absorbed.

[Craig_Perry]

Cheating using an advantageous exploitative measure to make things easier

 

Modding downloadable content that affects how the game is and/or is played

 

so if you downloaded a mod then its not cheating, but many dislike the use of ease causing mods

 

if you use something that is not meant to for the gameplay (console etc) then it is cheating

[23rd]

*farting noises*

Every single mod, you say? Explain how Architectural Geometry makes me a cheater.

[simplex]

Every single mod, you say? Explain how Architectural Geometry makes me a cheater.

You get to build prettier bases than the average vanilla player. You should be ashamed of yourself...

[ARamblingSpider]

You get to build prettier bases than the average 3rd class vanilla player. You shouldn't be ashamed of yourself because they do not deserve the high class privileges as they wander around in there non geometrical bases with Grass for flooring and no taste in style, such pathetic poor idiots.

[TeoSS69]

Ya know man, I'd like to hear your take on some of these. If you got a review or two to share please do. 

(instead of just copy pasta on mine xD)

I can't review them because I don't use them. I'm just basing my opinion on their descriptions and how those affect the game.

[papermoon]

the only mod i use is always on status and it's cheating alright.

no need to scale or rate it because at the end of the day cheating is well.. cheating.

i agree that mods are cheats except if they're retexture or reskin mods which i don't think i've seen one for this game, but i'm not really a mod ***** so maybe other people knows they exist.

[Silentdarkness1]

To quote a popular figure:

 

What difference does it make?