Relative uselessness of the shovel...

[Dom-Sithe]

So my friend (who gifted me DS when he bought it), and I have been discussing a new issue. Since the change to make berries and grass both require manure when transplanted, we have both just stopped using the shovel for anything but extra wood. You could easily do a full life without making a single shovel with nary a negative. The same can't be said about pick or ax, and, it's debatable, spear.

One suggestion I saw earlier today would help, potatoes. The only way to get them was shovel, so that's one!

My friend suggested something that kind of kills 2 birds with one stone, a compost heap structure. You put food and grass in, it bubbles and such, then when its ready, you use the shovel on it to get 1 fertilizer.

The suggestion I have is make buildings require a foundation. When you go to build anything you equip the shovel and your character digs a foundation quickly in the spot. Camp fire needs only 1 shovel full, fire pit and crock pot needs 2, farms need 6 -12, everything else maybe 3-4?

Thoughts?

[PistonPower]

In response to your idea above, I believe that it would be difficult to convince people to abandon using poop in favor of compost, perhaps the only way you can make a turbo farm plot is with a combination of manure and compost?

[mobius187]

Don't forget, in addition to replanting grass, saplings, and berry bushes, and the tree stump (for an extra log) the shovel is also used for digging up graves. I don't think I could ever give up grave robbing... could you?

Lastly, you can also dig-up (fill?) rabbit holes... but that just makes them disappear. Not sure what's going on there.

[Dom-Sithe]

Oh, I don't mean as a replacement, but as an additional source. In case you have no manure for whatever reason.

[mobius187]

Oh, I don't mean as a replacement, but as an additional source. In case you have no manure for whatever reason.

But couldn't you just feed berries to pig men... that makes manure.

[Dom-Sithe]

But couldn't you just feed berries to pig men... that makes manure.

True, but that doesn't use the shovel. Hehe, could make harvesting manure require the shovel... Makes a bit of sense hehe!

[Excess]

Interesting ideas, especially the compost heap one. I saw it suggested before but never thought of needing a shovel to work it.

What's ironic though, is that axes and pickaxes can only be used on 1 thing, but it's the shovel which can be used with several things that end up being the least used one.

Poor shovel.

[Joyousterror]

You could easily make compost account for a certain amount of manure. In turbo farm plots you can stack manure. But it requires leg work. Compost is stationary and gives something = to 3 manure? I like your idea though, but i'm a little worried about anything that makes other items less useful/desirable. Plus anything that further influences a player to stay stationary/turtle.

[Dom-Sithe]

You could easily make compost account for a certain amount of manure. In turbo farm plots you can stack manure. But it requires leg work. Compost is stationary and gives something = to 3 manure? I like your idea though, but i'm a little worried about anything that makes other items less useful/desirable. Plus anything that further influences a player to stay stationary/turtle.

I completely agree actually about the turtle part. I would amend the suggestion by elaborating the compost could only be used to refresh a farm, not used to stack fertilizer.

The idea of a compost is to present a high cost for low reward. Sure it works, but manure is just the better way to do it. Once beefalo are aggressive during mating season, or I am assuming during some point to make manure harder to get, compost becomes a safe if tedious source.

[MrEntity]

The shovel is useless?

The point when I figured out that the shovel meant I could transplant grass, twigs, and bushes was the point that I began to think this game was easy.

My entire play style is built around centrilized resources. I bring resources to me:

Find grass, dig it up.

Find twigs, dig it up.

Find a bush, dig it up.

Find bees, smash their ****, capture them, build a box.

Find trees, chop them down, gather acorns, plant an orchard.

Find stones, smash them, bring them home, build **** out of them.

And so on.

If the shovel didn't exist, the entire game would involve constantly running around in a panic looking for resources. The shovel makes you a home. The shovel is civilization.

Plus you can steal science-y stuff from dead guys with it.

The shovel is amazing.

[Joyousterror]

It makes sense that way if manure is ever hard to get that this would be the more tedious but safer way of doing it. Any bigger amount of uses for shovels i have to agree is useful.

@Entity. I personally don't like hoarding mass amounts of resources to be so reachable. It makes it so self-sufficient that it feels like beating the game while you stand there maintaining stacks and stacks of resources. XD

[John Explosion]

If the shovel didn't exist, the entire game would involve constantly running around in a panic looking for resources. The shovel makes you a home. The shovel is civilization.

Living in a constant state of fear and panic is kind of the point of Don't Starve, isn't it?

Still, as much as I'd like the shovel to have more use, don't make the simple stuff (building buildings, campfires, etc.) more difficult, just add more stuff to do with the shovel. Maybe making a spiked pit trap with it?

[Dom-Sithe]

@Entity. I personally don't like hoarding mass amounts of resources to be so reachable. It makes it so self-sufficient that it feels like beating the game while you stand there maintaining stacks and stacks of resources. XD

I bring resources to me:

Find grass, dig it up.

Find twigs, dig it up.

Find a bush, dig it up.

Except doing so forces you to require manure now eventually. Which means if you took every one of these to your base, you would run out. If you leave them out in the field, they last forever. Either way, you are eventually forced to leave your camp. And if (when) Beefalo become aggressive, manure will be much harder to get a hold of. Pigs would be a reliable source... but I'm betting they are going to change as well.

Also, I really believe we are playing the game at the easiest point its ever going to be. Every addition from here on will add to the game immensely, but will almost always make its slightly harder. (I can hardly wait! hehehe )

[MrEntity]

@ Dom-Sithe - I look for plains with beefalos before I make my base camp. I am always surrounded by shitting wooly food. Also rabbits and grass.

@ John Explosion - I approach this game as I would my own abandonment on an inhospitable landscape - make every effort to terraform and reconstruct such that the landscape becomes hospitable and survival becomes a standard; Then you can focus on escape.

[Joyousterror]

I agree/hope it's probably at the easiest it's going to be from here on out. Still, talking about in the moment and near future hiding in a beefalo biome or stocking up on easy manure from pigs still makes maintaining your huge farms pretty easy stuff. Don't they only require manure after 20 or so harvests? Average player has a grass/twig farm of 30 or more. Don't see anything your gonna need 300-600 grass/twigs for. By the time it requires manure again you already don't need to travel or use those items for a very long time.

I wonder what the changes to beefalo will be. I hope it's just like tallbirds . Panflute or bust!

[Kevin]

Beefalos are going to get a long-period cyclic behaviour loop. Building your base next to the herd won't be a very good idea in all seasons, eventually

[Dom-Sithe]

@ Dom-Sithe - I look for plains with beefalos before I make my base camp. I am always surrounded by shitting wooly food. Also rabbits and grass..

Thats fair. And frankly, it really is the 'optimal' way to play right now. And it is fun too, I will also admit that! But I bet you could do a round without a shovel, making a base the exact same way, and you would find its just not that much different or harder.

[Llyr]

@ Dom-Sithe - I look for plains with beefalos before I make my base camp. I am always surrounded by shitting wooly food. Also rabbits and grass.

@ John Explosion - I approach this game as I would my own abandonment on an inhospitable landscape - make every effort to terraform and reconstruct such that the landscape becomes hospitable and survival becomes a standard; Then you can focus on escape.

+1 my good sir, I do the same, I don't build the 'tree walls' like others do, but I do make a huge number of bee boxes (wish there was a way to get more honey combs like maybe combining 10 honey....) and bring sticks and grass closer but don't give a **** about the berry bushes, sure berries are tasty and all....but I'd much rather utilize my crock pot with meat and honey, and vegetables from my farm. Also on the topic of 'turtling' as some one put it. If they didn't want people to be able to build a base, why would they have farms and the stationary machines and such?

[sirmentlegen]

Beefalos are going to get a long-period cyclic behaviour loop. Building your base next to the herd won't be a very good idea in all seasons, eventually

what if wearing the beefalo hat make them non aggressive to you?

[BigfootNick]

Lastly, you can also dig-up (fill?) rabbit holes... but that just makes them disappear. Not sure what's going on there.

Once they disappear the rabbits cant disappear into their holes anymore, meaning you can chase them to the edge of the island of smack them with your 'useless' shovel! I prefer this to trapping

[Dom-Sithe]

You can also dig up rabbit holes at dusk or night, causing the rabbits to run away then fall asleep. Then you just walk up and hit em.

[sirmentlegen]

that means they dont respawn.

[Excess]

Once they disappear the rabbits cant disappear into their holes anymore, meaning you can chase them to the edge of the island of smack them with your 'useless' shovel! I prefer this to trapping

But you'll eventually extinguish all holes, and thus, all rabbits. Leaving the holes means an infinite amount of rabbits.

[Dom-Sithe]

But you'll eventually extinguish all holes, and thus, all rabbits. Leaving the holes means an infinite amount of rabbits.

Which, semi-realistically is an issue. Infinite food sources should have a little more work involved. I say Semi because well... rabbits. They ain't exactly known for being celebate.

[tigbits]

have mandrakes only be able to be dug up by shovels. keeps the idea of how truly useful they are in the players heads and makes one of the best foods in the game more valuable