Upgradeable buildings

[Excess]

I'll start by saying that I don't usually build the first 2 farm plots. I don't even research them. By the time I start farming, I already have the resources to build the turbo farm.

What I propose is a system of upgradeable structures. You always need to construct the first structure and you then "upgrade" it. When selecting an upgrade from the build menu, the "placement ghost" won't go green until you hover the base structure. The upgrades would be cheaper, as you would need to first build the base structure.

Some of this suggestions have already been discussed across the forums. I list them as an example of how this system would work, along with some of my own.

1. ---

   Scarecrow ^{(twigs + grass + grass hat)}
   
   Keeps off birds from landing/hoping near it, so they don't eat the crops.

   
   

   ↓
   (upgrades too)

   
   Meat Effigy ^{(beard hair + meat + rope)}
   

   Resurrects you upon death. Distracts 1 hound for a little while when they attack.

   
   

2. ---

   Straw roll ^{(grass + rope)}
   
   Sleep the night BY THE FIRE. If the fire get's too low, you are waken up with just enough time to make a torch/feed the fire. Can't sleep if there are enemies near, and you are waken up if something evil walks by. It's a one time use, unless it's upgraded to...

   
   

   ↓
   (upgrades too)

   
   Tent ^{(silk + twigs + rope)}
   

   Sleep the night without worrying about fires or enemies. It has durability, and when it's depleted the ropes that hold the whole thing in one piece gets cut due to use and it all falls to the ground. It leaves 1 usable straw roll behind.

   
   

3. ---

   Campfire ^{(grass + logs)}
   
   Burns fast. Fire spreads to nearby burnables.

   
   

   ↓
   (upgrades too)

   
   Firepit ^{(logs + stones)}
   

   Burns normal. Fire doesn't spread.

   
   

   ↓
   (upgrades too)

   
   Crock pot ^{(cut stones + charcoal)}
   

   Let's you cook IF the fire is high enough. If the fire is low, the cooking pauses.

   
   

4. ---

   Science machine ^{(gold + logs + stones)}
   
   Let's you research tier 1 stuff.

   
   

   ↓
   (upgrades too)

   
   Alchemy machine ^{(boards + cut stone + gold)}
   

   Let's you research tier 2 stuff (upgrades?)

   
   

5. ---

   Farm plot ^{(grass + manure)}
   
   Grow veggies slowly. Prone to bird attacks.

   
   

   ↓
   (upgrades too)

   
   Speedy farm plot ^{(manure + logs)}
   

   Grow veggies normal. Less bird attacks.

   
   

   ↓
   (upgrades too)

   
   Turbo farm plot ^{(manure + rocks)}
   

   Grow veggies fast. Each manure last's 2 crops.

   
   

   ---

   
   

What do YOU think?

Would something like this work?

[Toaster Fu]

I think this could work very well. But I think you would still run into the same problem of getting the top tier first, just collect all the resources and upgrade to the top tier straight away.

[Lezli]

Unless, dear Toaster, the resources needed to upgrade (like with the effigy) were difficult/time-consuming to obtain, and the lower tiers were actually useful, in which case, one would build the lower tier early (because they are dirt cheap and it makes sense), then upgrade once the more rare resources were obtained.

Imagine a turbo farm plot requiring a Durian, as the smell would attract the bugs needed for fast fertilization. This would mean one would either have to build many farm plots (which would mean lots of food, their intended purpose), or wait to be lucky enough to get a Durian (which would also mean the farm plot works as it was intended, providing food repeatedly over time).

Edit: Fixed a typo.

Edited November 28, 2012 by Lezli

[blackdragon]

I would also recommend a permanent shelter, like a lean-to or even a debris hut style shelter. this way you can have a real base camp like in real survival. maybe eve in the later parts allowing you to build a log house to live out of. have the game progress like someone living off the land, eventually you're going to make some sort of semi-permanent shelter and eventually a permanent one. the straw roll just doesn't cut it for shelter.

[Excess]

I think this could work very well. But I think you would still run into the same problem of getting the top tier first, just collect all the resources and upgrade to the top tier straight away.

Yes, but at least it would take much more resources now, specially with the new research system. Anyway, the idea is to revamp the "base" stuff to make it more useful early on, and slowly progress towards better stuff.

Rarefying the materials of high upgrades as Lezli suggested could be a solution too.

[Grim]

I like this idea. I am the same with the farms. I dont even bother to use the lower teir ones. By the time i want to use i farm i can already build the turbo ones. So i would not mind this being made and put into the game.

[mobius187]

I'll start by saying that I don't usually build the first 2 farm plots. I don't even research them. By the time I start farming, I already have the resources to build the turbo farm.

Agreed. I never researched the Speedy Farm Plot and it's still the only locked research item that I have... I mean, why bother with it?

Scarecrow => Meat Effigy

Hmmm. I don't know, while they are similar in appearance each serves a very different role, even if you change it so the meat effigy distracts the hounds. In fact, Meat Effigy is under "Magic", while I assume Scarecrow would eventually appear under "Food".

In terms of functionality, I agree, so long as hounds can destroy the meat effigy relatively quickly (say 2-3 seconds) to prevent abuse (i.e. distract hounds with ~10 meat effigy and hit them while they're not attacking). I would almost want to say hounds destroy meat effigies to screw over your revival chances, and you should consider protecting them from the hounds.

Scarecrow? Yup, scares birds to keep them from eating your crops.

In short, I don't think they need to be upgraded or upgrade each other.

Straw Roll => Tent</quote>

Okay, now this is more of a direct connection. I like the mechanic you added for the straw roll, which now brings up the next matter, the fact that the straw roll isn't a placeable object, rather it's just an item you can drop anywhere and then click again to use (i.e. sleep). Of course that wouldn't stop you from, say, having the straw roll included in the crafting "combo" for the tent (i.e. straw roll + silk + rope). In which yes, you would need the straw roll before you could craft the tent, and hence, why it's worthless to unlock the tent until you've unlocked the straw roll.

It goes without saying (or maybe it doesn't) that I don't care for the tent's current function to let you switch characters. Personally I would like to see that feature removed. As for tent durability... how about a trade off? Keep the same "fire concerns" you posted for the straw roll, but in exchange while the straw roll is lost after one use the tent remains forever (unless it burns down or you dismantle it with a hammer).

Campfire => Firepit => Crock Pot

Okay, I would say that while the firepit is obviously the advancement of the campfire, I like the fact that the campfire isn't permanent, as a trade-off between it and unlocking the firepit. Also, the fact that you need stone for the firepit gives another reason why the campfire will be popular early on in survival, but replaced later with the more advanced firepit... unless there's an emergency and no stone is on hand. I like that it's flexible this way right now.

However I could see how the firepit and crock pot could be merged, with the crock pot being an upgrade to the firepit. That way you don't need to have both in your base camp. My opinions on how the crock pot should work... well... that's a discussion for another thread.

Science machine => Alchemy machine

In short, yes, I would like to see the alchemy machine be an upgrade for the science machine. There is no reason why you need a science machine AND an alchemy machine. None. So why bother? Better to allow players to craft the science machine, benefit from it, and then eventually upgrade it to an "alchemy machine".

Farm plot => Speedy farm plot => Turbo farm plot

Okay, you already know I've discussed this series of upgrades in another thread. To recap, I believe the players should start off being able to unlock/build the farm plot.

The "Speedy farm plot" should be scrapped and replaced with in invention that can be unlocked to upgrade existing farm plots. I would call it something like... "Speedy Fertilizer". Then when the player crafts it and uses it on a farm plot that farm plot's placeable upgrades its appearance to the one used for the "Speedy farm plot" so you know it's upgraded.

The "Turbo farm plot"? Same deal, scrap it and replace it with an invention called "Turbo Grow Formula", and have it that it can only upgrade Speedy farm plots (i.e. what the farm plot is now called after it was upgraded by the Speedy Fertilizer). Once used the Speedy farm plot transforms into the Turbo farm plot.

In short, you're required to start with the farm plot and upgrade twice to get the turbo farm plot. No more skipping the Speedy farm plot because now you need it to get the Turbo farm plot.

As for birds... I would say they have the same chance to steal seeds from all three farm plots, but that's where the scarecrow comes in after all.

[JackMcWaffles]

Perhaps the upgrades could evolve into a system out of something such as Starcraft where you have your base structure and then you extend on it for bonuses. Adding the crock pot upon then fire pit is a perfect example! It adds the benefit of cooking better food on top of having a source of light.

Maybe then it could expand to where you have multiple options of what to add to a structure. It could also be a decision where you forfeit one expansion for the sake of another to suit your own play style.

Of course then there's the question of how to implement this. If you're adding something to an existing structure, you would expect to upgrade it directly from there, so how would that tie in with research? Well that would probably be remedied by making the ability to expand on a structure a research option from the science machine/alchemy machine. Then you could freely add your desired structure to a building.

If the alchemy machine were to be an upgrade upon the science machine, that could very well be a way to make structural expansions available for research! Then the option could show up to the side of the object you've already researched.

[dbernard456]

I'll start by saying that I don't usually build the first 2 farm plots. I don't even research them. By the time I start farming, I already have the resources to build the turbo farm.

What I propose is a system of upgradeable structures. You always need to construct the first structure and you then "upgrade" it. When selecting an upgrade from the build menu, the "placement ghost" won't go green until you hover the base structure. The upgrades would be cheaper, as you would need to first build the base structure.

Some of this suggestions have already been discussed across the forums. I list them as an example of how this system would work, along with some of my own.

1. ---

   Scarecrow ^{(twigs + grass + grass hat)}
   
   Keeps off birds from landing/hoping near it, so they don't eat the crops.

   
   

   ↓
   (upgrades too)

   
   Meat Effigy ^{(beard hair + meat + rope)}
   

   Resurrects you upon death. Distracts 1 hound for a little while when they attack.

   
   

2. ---

   Straw roll ^{(grass + rope)}
   
   Sleep the night BY THE FIRE. If the fire get's too low, you are waken up with just enough time to make a torch/feed the fire. Can't sleep if there are enemies near, and you are waken up if something evil walks by. It's a one time use, unless it's upgraded to...

   
   

   ↓
   (upgrades too)

   
   Tent ^{(silk + twigs + rope)}
   

   Sleep the night without worrying about fires or enemies. It has durability, and when it's depleted the ropes that hold the whole thing in one piece gets cut due to use and it all falls to the ground. It leaves 1 usable straw roll behind.

   
   

3. ---

   Campfire ^{(grass + logs)}
   
   Burns fast. Fire spreads to nearby burnables.

   
   

   ↓
   (upgrades too)

   
   Firepit ^{(logs + stones)}
   

   Burns normal. Fire doesn't spread.

   
   

   ↓
   (upgrades too)

   
   Crock pot ^{(cut stones + charcoal)}
   

   Let's you cook IF the fire is high enough. If the fire is low, the cooking pauses.

   
   

4. ---

   Science machine ^{(gold + logs + stones)}
   
   Let's you research tier 1 stuff.

   
   

   ↓
   (upgrades too)

   
   Alchemy machine ^{(boards + cut stone + gold)}
   

   Let's you research tier 2 stuff (upgrades?)

   
   

5. ---

   Farm plot ^{(grass + manure)}
   
   Grow veggies slowly. Prone to bird attacks.

   
   

   ↓
   (upgrades too)

   
   Speedy farm plot ^{(manure + logs)}
   

   Grow veggies normal. Less bird attacks.

   
   

   ↓
   (upgrades too)

   
   Turbo farm plot ^{(manure + rocks)}
   

   Grow veggies fast. Each manure last's 2 crops.

   
   

   ---

   
   

What do YOU think?

Would something like this work?

I vote Yea to your proposition.

[LadyD]

I think with the change of the research system all of this will change as well.

Since things will not be based so much on research points and more on prototyping? Or something like that. I think the new system may well function similar to this Excess but in the case of unlock one so you can progress to the other sort of thing.