Character ability balance

[Fredgerd]

I may just be lacking experience here but am I the only one that finds that characters aren't all that well balanced?Wilson and Wickerbottom seem to me to be obviously the most powerful characters, given Wilson has a major advantage with Meat Effigies and Wickerbottom has a huge advantage in just about anything given she gets access to high techs much faster. Wolfgang and Wendy have a small advantage in survival prior to getting a firmly established camp, especially against monster attacks They seem clearly a tier below Wilson and Wickerbottom though. WX-78 and Willow's abilities seem to have extremely low usefulness far below other characters. Willow I was really exited about when I first read her ability because I thought "free torch, can keep gathering things all night". But no, she just lights a dying fire that keeps you alive briefly if you screw up and forget to light one somehow. I have never actually had this issue. Its not that hard to watch the clock. As for WX-78, who actually has food going bad at times when they are short on it? If your food goes bad you probably didn't need the extra anyways. Maybe WX could be buffed to be able to eat any inventory item for a small amount of stomach fill, and Willow could get the aforementioned free torch at night. I honestly think this would still leave them less powerful than Wilson and Wickerbottom and closer to the same league as Wendy and Wolfgang.I haven't mentioned Wes because this obviously doesn't apply, or to Maxwell as I haven't unlocked him yet and thus can't really comment on him.

[Crown_king]

The Devs have said there gonna do a character balance in july sometime if you want to hear it for yourself heres the live stream:http://www.twitch.tv/riptidepow

Edited May 15, 2013 by Snob

[Fredgerd]

Good to know, I look forward to it.

[n4te]

Hi Fredgerd,I agree that the characters un balanced, however I seems to have just about the opposite feeling about balance. The OP list goes like this imop : 1 Miss Willow 2 WX-78 3 Mr Wolfgang. Underpowered: Wilson and Wickerbottom.Reasons:Willow does not die from darkness. Uhmm, need more reasons? Plant a forest near your base with a lane inside, light the forest when you are in danger and watch everything burn. One might think darkness is easy to counter, but, if one survive long enough, perhaps one will encounter the careless mis placing the logs, or not carrying the right ingrediants etc; We all like to return to camp at the last possible second don't we? When one does make such a mistake and does not have a meat effigie, it is OVER.WX-78 and Mr Wolfgang provide advantage constantly through out the game. Mr Wolfgang is popular due to his manly abilities to two shots an evil spider and eat a lot mons meat. But here is why I think WX is more OP in the long run: WX need to worry less about preservation of food, from day one. Which means his time, which is the most important resource in the game in my most humble opinion, is with some \emph{factor} more than the other players. Detailed calculation is boring and tedious, but this is how I feel from my time playing with WX. Ok why is Wolfgang weaker in the long run? After 50 days the tough fights usually evolve 5-6 pigs, a few bee bombs, a few darts here and there. Perhaps some magic? Wofgang's dps advantage disperses then. However Mr Wolfgang does save you 1/3 of the time soloing spiders, but WX does so with all aspect relating to food, or being starved .Here is why Wilson and Wickerbottom are UP: one is expected to obtained 4 beards from 20 beardlings. With a bit pre-planning, it is a day's work at best. Besides even Wilson has to kill beardling anyways for the nightmare fuel. How many meat effigies does one build the entire game? If I build 3 I think I will just delete that entry.Wickerbottom gives you the resource of a nightmare manipulator. Perhaps make it 2 if one thinks the early access to level two tech is invaluable. But I do not feel you need level 2 tech until day 20. And 7 gold nuggets in 20 days? Well it is easy.

[smithay]

Willow is definitely UP at the moment. Personally i keep a miners hat in my inventory at all times just in case i lack ingredients or i just need to run away from my fire in the middle of the night. Her flameretardedness is probably her strongest aspect and it does have uses but is still limited.Wickerbottom is good but not OP, a day 1 backpack is always useful as it lets you set up camp later on and choose a better spot and the effective +10 nightmare fuel + 4 logs is nice boost but diminished in the long run.

[366107044]

On my suggestion megathread (link to in sig) the first thing I covered was character balance. 'Too lazy to retype (unless someone else does it) so you'll just have to go there yourself.

[oCrapaCreeper]

Here is why Wilson and Wickerbottom are UP: one is expected to obtained 4 beards from 20 beardlings. With a bit pre-planning, it is a day's work at best. Besides even Wilson has to kill beardling anyways for the nightmare fuel. How many meat effigies does one build the entire game? If I build 3 I think I will just delete that entry.

A lot of people don't even use Wilson him for Meat Effigies, rather his beard for easy protection from Freezing.

[Palpetinus]

A lot of people don't even use Wilson him for Meat Effigies, rather his beard for easy protection from Freezing.

Exactly, it counts as how much? As much as rabbit earmuffs or something?Not too high, but it has impact.

[WebberTheKind]

It counts a little bit more than Winter Hat, 135 seconds while Winter Hat is 120, and da best hat is 240 seconds (Beefalo Hat), with Beefalo Hat, heat stone and beard you can survive whole day as long as you make fire every night.Wilson suddenly turned into winter character.

[Palpetinus]

It counts a little bit more than Winter Hat, 135 seconds while Winter Hat is 120, and da best hat is 240 seconds (Beefalo Hat), with Beefalo Hat, heat stone and beard you can survive whole day as long as you make fire every night.Wilson suddenly turned into winter character.

It's actually that high? I always thought it was somewhere around 80 or 90.

[insanechef]

Hi Fredgerd,I agree that the characters un balanced, however I seems to have just about the opposite feeling about balance. The OP list goes like this imop : 1 Miss Willow 2 WX-78 3 Mr Wolfgang. Underpowered: Wilson and Wickerbottom.Reasons:Willow does not die from darkness. Uhmm, need more reasons? Plant a forest near your base with a lane inside, light the forest when you are in danger and watch everything burn. One might think darkness is easy to counter, but, if one survive long enough, perhaps one will encounter the careless mis placing the logs, or not carrying the right ingrediants etc; We all like to return to camp at the last possible second don't we? When one does make such a mistake and does not have a meat effigie, it is OVER.WX-78 and Mr Wolfgang provide advantage constantly through out the game. Mr Wolfgang is popular due to his manly abilities to two shots an evil spider and eat a lot mons meat. But here is why I think WX is more OP in the long run: WX need to worry less about preservation of food, from day one. Which means his time, which is the most important resource in the game in my most humble opinion, is with some \emph{factor} more than the other players. Detailed calculation is boring and tedious, but this is how I feel from my time playing with WX. Ok why is Wolfgang weaker in the long run? After 50 days the tough fights usually evolve 5-6 pigs, a few bee bombs, a few darts here and there. Perhaps some magic? Wofgang's dps advantage disperses then. However Mr Wolfgang does save you 1/3 of the time soloing spiders, but WX does so with all aspect relating to food, or being starved .Here is why Wilson and Wickerbottom are UP: one is expected to obtained 4 beards from 20 beardlings. With a bit pre-planning, it is a day's work at best. Besides even Wilson has to kill beardling anyways for the nightmare fuel. How many meat effigies does one build the entire game? If I build 3 I think I will just delete that entry.Wickerbottom gives you the resource of a nightmare manipulator. Perhaps make it 2 if one thinks the early access to level two tech is invaluable. But I do not feel you need level 2 tech until day 20. And 7 gold nuggets in 20 days? Well it is easy.

I've never ever had to deal with spoiling food cause of ice box. even before I could easily cook or use food in a crock pot to keep it from spoiling. Farms and careful planning means food will never spoil...Wilson, you forget has his beard which not only gives meat effigys but also provides free warmth in winter. Best thing in the game IMO. In my game now ive explored in winter and never frozen once with tam + beard. And thats going from one half of default map to other.I havent played wickerbottom but free tech early is never anything to pass up on. Her ability dwindles but so does everyones. Honestly I never ever leave without some form of light e.g. miner hat && i have enough wood and grass for like 10 fires. Willows fire sucks and id never use no fire damage perk except in a controlled situation anyway.Hunger isnt what kills you. It's what you do to satisfy hunger that kills you.

[Otto Van Candlefield]

I'd say all the characters need a bit of a balance, especially with caves coming. I honestly think Willow has a large advantage there (Essentially an infinite and damaging light source) while most characters stay the same, excepting Wendy. If time does not pass in the caves, Abigail would not spawn, correct? I've not had her spawn yet, but that may just be my luck. I'm probably being a bit biased here, as I love Wendy, but I still believe she should get some bonus or tweak to Abbi. Most others seem alright to me, excepting Willow on the surface world.

[Tumalu]

I was "Oh, I guess she's not good against not-spiders" when I read other people's opinions on Abigail, but she still seems to be able to murder non-boss, non-beefalo enemies to me pretty well. She'll take out any spider nests or tallbirds effortlessly, usually with no damage taken, and when I found the wooden thing, she took out the two bishops for me solo. She destroyed a MacTusk hunting party, even. Wendy is my favorite to play; although since I love variety I always use different characters.Also, I'm not sure why you think Willow's light would be so useful in the caves. It's not any better then it would be at night aboveground, and there it's more or less only good as an emergency safeguard if you just can't get any other light. It's nice Willow unlocks first, for newbies who do have some issue with dying at night, but... ingredients for a fire or torch are something -everyone- should have on hand 100% of the time. It's only problematic when you're getting chased by monsters who hit you before you make the light source.I think Wickerbottom is great in adventure, but there's not much point to playing her in Survival mode. Wilson is powerful because once you can survive without issue outside of freak accidents or really bad luck, he more or less gives you infinite meat effigies for little to no effort. The warmth in winter from a full beard is also pretty great, if you just have a winter hat you can go around for a loooong time.I've had zero issue with spoiling food, with no iceboxes, so WX-78 seems kind of....

[rockfang3]

you're being stupid now she spawns in with a liter it privides light as much as a torch you can gather with it in your hand and it lights things on fire

[AwesomeJHF]

you're being stupid now she spawns in with a liter it privides light as much as a torch you can gather with it in your hand and it lights things on fire

Please tell me this necro is kidding. That post was 2 months old, before Willow had a lighter!

[Hpfm2]

Please tell me this necro is kidding. That post was 2 months old, before Willow had a lighter!

He could be troll, or just plain silly. We'll never know, really.

[Luggs]

you're being stupid now she spawns in with a liter it privides light as much as a torch you can gather with it in your hand and it lights things on fire

If you look at the dates, these were posted BEFORE the character rebalance.

[Amkar]

Necromancers. Necromancers everywhere.

[thenotoriousmrbaker]

I may just be lacking experience here but am I the only one that finds that characters aren't all that well balanced?Wilson and Wickerbottom seem to me to be obviously the most powerful characters, given Wilson has a major advantage with Meat Effigies and Wickerbottom has a huge advantage in just about anything given she gets access to high techs much faster. Wolfgang and Wendy have a small advantage in survival prior to getting a firmly established camp, especially against monster attacks They seem clearly a tier below Wilson and Wickerbottom though. WX-78 and Willow's abilities seem to have extremely low usefulness far below other characters. Willow I was really exited about when I first read her ability because I thought "free torch, can keep gathering things all night". But no, she just lights a dying fire that keeps you alive briefly if you screw up and forget to light one somehow. I have never actually had this issue. Its not that hard to watch the clock. As for WX-78, who actually has food going bad at times when they are short on it? If your food goes bad you probably didn't need the extra anyways. Maybe WX could be buffed to be able to eat any inventory item for a small amount of stomach fill, and Willow could get the aforementioned free torch at night. I honestly think this would still leave them less powerful than Wilson and Wickerbottom and closer to the same league as Wendy and Wolfgang.I haven't mentioned Wes because this obviously doesn't apply, or to Maxwell as I haven't unlocked him yet and thus can't really comment on him.

I find myself both agreeing and disagreeing with you. I agree in the sense that I do not believe these characters to be balanced. In this I agree wholeheartedly, the game has merely nurfed its old overpowered characters into oblivion and raised up a new set of overpowered's to take their place.That being said, i'm not quite sure I agree with your statements of who these new OP's are. For instance I believe WX78 to be among the top contenders, if not the top contender, along with Wickerbottom for the newly vacant crown of "The Easy Mode King/Queen." His ability build up to insane amounts of health and hunger, along with his ability to heal + move speed buff from lightning and eat spoiled food makes him very very strong. His only "drawback" is that he has low stats early in the game. You know that time when nothings trying to kill you and its summer? And Wickerbottom is just plain cool with her magic spell books. I mean she gets a panflute for hardly any cost at all! (compared to a regular panflute which requires the rare and extremely valuable mandrake). Plus she can craft armor, spears, and other useful items right off the bat without any machines, meaning you can wander longer and survive on less. And lets not count out the often unappreciated Willow, she's still very viable, especially in hardcore modes such as long night, all night, long winter, lots spiders, etc.As for wilson, No I don't believe he is all that overpowered, as you can merely fiddle around with beardlings as other characters to get hair and an effigy. In terms of Wilson's unique abilities all he has going for him is a cold resistance buff when he grows a beard which, while nice, hardly fits with his original design and concept as a gentleman scientist.I'm of the persuasion that he's in desperate need of a rework, but sadly *sigh* i'm in the vast minority in this case.If your super concerned about this issue, there is apparently going to be another rework or rebalance sometime. Ive heard rumors about it anyway. I only hope that the Devs will be able to balance these characters without excessive buff/nurfs that will ruin their 'fun' factor in the process. Edited July 6, 2013 by thenotoriousmrbaker

[thenotoriousmrbaker]

OK how on earth did that little baby thing pop up, and how do i get it off? it looks weird.Nvm gone now, how do delete this post???

[jbeetle]

pretty sure you can't delete posts. also, you agreed with someone who had that opinion before the rebalance. hence the necro comments

[Fredgerd]

I find myself both agreeing and disagreeing with you. I agree in the sense that I do not believe these characters to be balanced. In this I agree wholeheartedly, the game has merely nurfed its old overpowered characters into oblivion and raised up a new set of overpowered's to take their place.That being said, i'm not quite sure I agree with your statements of who these new OP's are. For instance I believe WX78 to be among the top contenders, if not the top contender, along with Wickerbottom for the newly vacant crown of "The Easy Mode King/Queen." His ability build up to insane amounts of health and hunger, along with his ability to heal + move speed buff from lightning and eat spoiled food makes him very very strong. His only "drawback" is that he has low stats early in the game. You know that time when nothings trying to kill you and its summer? And Wickerbottom is just plain cool with her magic spell books. I mean she gets a panflute for hardly any cost at all! (compared to a regular panflute which requires the rare and extremely valuable mandrake). Plus she can craft armor, spears, and other useful items right off the bat without any machines, meaning you can wander longer and survive on less. And lets not count out the often unappreciated Willow, she's still very viable, especially in hardcore modes such as long night, all night, long winter, lots spiders, etc.As for wilson, No I don't believe he is all that overpowered, as you can merely fiddle around with beardlings as other characters to get hair and an effigy. In terms of Wilson's unique abilities all he has going for him is a cold resistance buff when he grows a beard which, while nice, hardly fits with his original design and concept as a gentleman scientist.I'm of the persuasion that he's in desperate need of a rework, but sadly *sigh* i'm in the vast minority in this case.If your super concerned about this issue, there is apparently going to be another rework or rebalance sometime. Ive heard rumors about it anyway. I only hope that the Devs will be able to balance these characters without excessive buff/nurfs that will ruin their 'fun' factor in the process.

Not sure how it wasn't obvious that my post was from well before the Strange New Powers patch. :SMaybe, your newer to the game than I am, but when I posted this, WX's only power was that he could eat spoiled food. Nothing else. The lightning, gear upgrades, rain etc are all brand new as of last patch. Willow was also changed (with my suggested change I might add which is kinda cool. Sure they called it "Willows Lighter" but its a free unbreakable torch).This is not to say I stand by everything I said. I'm a noob now, but I was almost brand new back then, and I don't think Wilson was actually OP then nor was Wolfgang balanced.

[thenotoriousmrbaker]

forum resurrection, fun isn't it?Then again glad you semi agree with me. I am curious as to how you feel about the current state of the characters.