Why don't we have a good dish for insanity (-50 / -75)?

[Cruvimaster]

I miss a dish specifically designed to drive the player insane (-50 / -75), without any life penalty. This would be very useful for the lunar island or simply facing shadow creatures.

I wish Klei would implement a new recipe with -50 or -75 sanity and not rely so heavily on Glommer's Goop.

[linabagel]

You forgot about the Mushroom Planter and the Green Mushroom. 

A special system different from farming and cooking.

Edited March 16 by linabagel

[Well-met]

green mushroom

[Naifxoxo]

or go to ruins near the fissures, they have like a billion insanity aura, farm a trillion nightmare fuel and go back

[Frosty_Mentos]

Greencaps are generally best for insanity, and cheapest.

[Cruvimaster]

4 hours ago, linabagel said:

You forgot about the Mushroom Planter and the Green Mushroom. 

A special system different from farming and cooking.

I didn't forget, I just didn't mention it. These items also serve to restore sanity, and that doesn't mean we don't have numerous dishes to restore sanity.

And I don't think I need to mention that Warly and Wigfrid can't access this, right!?

[DegenerateFurry]

4 hours ago, Well-met said:

green mushroom

Warly can't eat that. 

[landromat]

10 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Warly can't eat that. 

he has grim galletes

[DegenerateFurry]

24 minutes ago, landromat said:

he has grim galletes

Not the same. Green caps are basically free with how common they are on surface and caves and you just eat them for an instant -50 sanity.

Grim Galette requires the following to be used for insanity: 
1. You have farmed onions. 
2. You have potatoes. 
3. You already have two nightmare fuel, which... yeah, you see the problem there, right? You're trying to go insane to get nightmare fuel, but it needs you to have some already. What, am I supposed to take a trip to the ruins to make a spooky pie? I could just farm NF there if I was gonna do that.
4. Your health is critically low when you eat it. Otherwise, you won't be low enough on sanity to get nightmare fuel anyway. 

And then you kill two shadow creatures and your sanity becomes too high to get more fuel anyway, so if you're unlucky with fuel drops, you might only make back what you spent on the Grim Galette. Grim Galette isn't a good way to farm nightmare fuel, it's much better for healing and for fighting Celestial Champion. 

[Cruvimaster]

We all know that green mushrooms decrease sanity. OK.

We all know that Cooked Green Cap / Cooked Blue Cap / Cooked Cactus Flesh increase sanity. Okay too.

By that logic, we wouldn't need any recipes in the game to increase sanity, right (consistency)? Is that what happens?

To increase sanity we have: Cooked Green Cap / Cooked Blue Cap / Cooked Cactus Flesh +++++ various dishes, tent, Tam o' Shanter, Enlightened Crown, Forget-Me-Lots Tea, etc.

So I return to the central point of the topic (D-I-S-H-E-S): What is the reason we don't have a dish that provides -50 or -75 sanity?

[Mr Giggio]

People talking like OP don't know the thousand of options to insanity low-key being a problem on community.

We always so focused on explaining assuming people don't know this or that and then when they do it just comes across as condescending lol

 

Like what if he wants to put that said dish in bear bin so can use it on demand. Or already mentioned Warly struggle. Putting effort to get their point first helps with the questions they are trying to raise instead of just shutting it down.

Edited March 16 by Mr Giggio

[Tranoze]

3 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

Warly and Wigfrid can't access

2 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Warly can't eat

They can eat red food (aka spoiled food) for -10 sanity.
Now they just need to cook foods that spoil really fast for the negative sanity, or make stack of them leave spoil on water, then put them in bearger bin when about to spoil.

Still agree we need more food that give high negative sanity without causing much negative hp.

[DegenerateFurry]

Just now, Tranoze said:

They can eat red food (aka spoiled food) for -10 sanity.

Way more time-efficient to just spam wormholes.

[linabagel]

3 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

I didn't forget, I just didn't mention it. These items also serve to restore sanity, and that doesn't mean we don't have numerous dishes to restore sanity.

Of course, this is not a substitution relationship of "having A means not having B". But "KL will give players what way deal with the problem."

My personal opinion is ：In most cases, KL does not give players with direct solutions to problems, but rather gave them indirect methods. (For example: a Boss needs to be defeated、an event needs to be experienced first、a lot of expensive and repetitive materials need to be done、features need to be sacrificed, etc.)

If it was from an earlier version, I guess KL might have had a similar idea to yours, but it was designed as a "punishment dish" (like Monster Lasagna).

But now, there is already the Lunar Island design. So, personally, I guess that KL might not give players a direct problem-solving approach like "a dish immune to Lunar Island environmental interference".

Consequently, we already have alternative approaches to deal with the Lunar Island, and you can also notice that they have certain costs or drawbacks:

·Nightmare Amulet, but it only lasts for 3 minutes.

·Bone Helm, but it requires defeating FW first and cannot be repaired.

·Mushroom Planter, but it requires consuming Living Log.

·Green Mush Tree, but it requires exploring the Cave, taking into account the time spent traveling and cutting down trees. SR players care about these.

·Grim Galette, but be aware of the ratio.

·Mushy Cake, fights against Sleeping but the Gestalt quantity also has an impact, needs to be eaten frequently.

·Glommer's Goop and The Lazy Deserter, seem to be the simplest and cheapest way.

(There may be other omissions. Anyone can add them.)

(Of course, there have also been some counterexamples recently. Such as Flare is very cheap and no any cost. But I think this is a minority case.)

So, if you want to design a way to solve the problem directly with a clear purpose and without any life penalty, I guess KL probably won't do so. But anyway, you are free to post your own designs on this forum. And if you insist on your design, I guess you need to make some changes.. Such as the need to increase the cost of cooking, with some other costs or trouble.

Of course, no one can guarantee 100% that KL won't do this. Maybe in the next version, KL actually designs it this way. Who knows?

3 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

And I don't think I need to mention that Warly and Wigfrid can't access this, right!?

Because Warly and Wigfrid have character-shortcoming, so they can't eat. I don't think it's a problem. I don't understand what you mean by mentioning these two characters.

[Tranoze]

5 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Way more time-efficient to just spam wormholes.

The point of this prepared food is to control your sanity at will after you fully prepared. You can have 1 stack of almost spoiled bacon egg for example, inside bearger bin, which you can use it whenever you want, aka in lunar island, or go insane to target certain shadows.
Spam wormhole and deserter is fast, but you cant bring them with you to everywhere, as sometimes bosses can just demolish deserter.

[nicolas103]

I gotta be honest, i feel an Insanity Dish with current ingredients and current options feels very pointless. It's really not hard at all to farm Green Mushrooms.

Other ways to go insane include: Spam the Lazy Deserter, wear a Nightmare Amulet or Bone Helmet.

3 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

don't think I need to mention that Warly and Wigfrid can't access this, right!?

This is as designed. They have their own diets afterall. But this does raise a good point that they have "difficulties" other characters do not.

Perhaps Warly can spice his dishes with Nightmare Fuel?

Perhaps Wigfrid can have a song to drop her sanity and/or prevent the Sanity Steal for a duration?

[Cuernito.]

Good question. Im sure klei can make an easy dish to solve this anyday. Maybe a "green mushrooms omelette" that gives 0 health, 50 hunger and -100 sanity. And the recipe could be 2 eggs and 2 green caps. Thats it, easy solution and a great new recipe for wigfrid(egg food) and Warly(dish with high stat reduction).

I like egg dishes and a new one would be more than welcome.

[AliceShiki]

Well, to answer the "why" question... Probably because low sanity was originally supposed to be a bad thing.

This was back in the day before Lunacy was a thing and before we had AFW that specifically wants you to do Sanity management (or use Nightmare Amulet) though, but like...

As far as a "why" question goes, the answer would be that dishes are supposed to be mostly beneficial, so other than "punishment" dishes like Monster Lasagna, it wouldn't make sense to have them decrease sanity.

Granted, now that Lunacy and AFW exist, I think it's totally reasonable to expect dishes that lower sanity. I was just trying to talk about the logic behind why it doesn't currently exist.

So... My personal suggestion would be to make a meal that involves ingredients that can only be harvested in a Lunacy environment (may or may not involve new ingredients). It would make the most sense to have a dish that reduces sanity in the environment that high sanity is bad, as that would be a clearly beneficial dish in that environment.

[DegenerateFurry]

19 minutes ago, AliceShiki said:

Well, to answer the "why" question... Probably because low sanity was originally supposed to be a bad thing.

This was back in the day before Lunacy was a thing and before we had AFW that specifically wants you to do Sanity management (or use Nightmare Amulet) though, but like...

As far as a "why" question goes, the answer would be that dishes are supposed to be mostly beneficial, so other than "punishment" dishes like Monster Lasagna, it wouldn't make sense to have them decrease sanity.

Granted, now that Lunacy and AFW exist, I think it's totally reasonable to expect dishes that lower sanity. I was just trying to talk about the logic behind why it doesn't currently exist.

So... My personal suggestion would be to make a meal that involves ingredients that can only be harvested in a Lunacy environment (may or may not involve new ingredients). It would make the most sense to have a dish that reduces sanity in the environment that high sanity is bad, as that would be a clearly beneficial dish in that environment.

Lune petals could be an ingredient, perhaps? Since you get those from lunar. 

[Ginosaji]

Amazing how everyone ignores how this post is designed to nerf the drawbacks for 2 characters specifically.

If you want easy sanity lowering you have to play everyone else but Wigfrid or Warly. Play Wes, that's the only thing he's good at.

[DegenerateFurry]

Just now, Ginosaji said:

Amazing how everyone ignores how this post is designed to nerf the drawbacks for 2 characters specifically.

If you want easy sanity lowering you have to play everyone else but Wigfrid or Warly. Play Wes, that's the only thing he's good at.

I don't think that's really an intended drawback for Warly. Like AliceShiki said, insanity was a bad thing back in the day. 

[Ginosaji]

I also fail to see the use for this? (other than buffing 2 characters ofc)

It's a very niche thing to use. You only need this for the very 1st Celestial Champion you fight and after that you can Brightshade Helm for immunity or use the Enlightened Crown to gain immunity. Hence i don't see the point what someone said before about filling a Bearger Bin with spoiled food.

If you have a Bearger Bin you do have access to the Brightshade Helm to avoid getting stunned by Gestalts.

Because of this 1st cc fight the Lazy Deserter finds a use on solo worlds. So this change will make the structure even more obsolete in solo runs.

[JazzyGames]

I too would love to see another option for lowering sanity/lunacy, and I grant that the need is currently somewhat a niche problem to Warly and Wigfrid, particularly in lunacy fights such as CC and Scion. Lazy Deserter works fine for lunar island but isn’t an option on Warbot island, sadly. Fighting Scion is easiest done with either a Batbat or Shadow Maul but only lowers sanity if your health is not 100%, and grim galette is a huge risk because it requires low health to be effective.

Heaps of Foods has Nightmare Mayo which lowers a player’s sanity over time; I think this would be an excellent function to integrate into a new crockpot dish.

Edit: Also remembered that either brightshade armor piece provides gestalt protection as well!

Edited March 17 by JazzyGames

[Ginosaji]

Pearl now gives you access to Dark Petal Tea using her Tea Shop.

The only issue with this is that it's so late game that it doesn't help killing the 1st cc of the world.

 

And i'm not sure if Warly and Wig can use it. Are these goodie food?

[Frosty_Mentos]

I mean, next best thing for losing sanity is just nightmare armor, batbat and such. Some specific characters like Warly should probably have a better option than just those, but it's not the worst. Wigfrid prolly can take it and not care, she generally is built to take a beating. Unless it's the orbital moon laser, that's just death to all.