The destructive power of the Great Depths Worm is immense and irreversible

[adminaaassh]

To clarify, all the scenery shown in the video can be created in the original version of the game and does not use any console commands. If you have any doubts about this, you might need to deepen your understanding of the game's mechanisms and operations. All materials and items shown in the video were obtained gradually and no console codes were used

[Peaches44]

Klei just needs to put ways to teleport in caves . Can be expensive (more purple gems or another gem color) or another craft, I dont know. What I do know is, at this moment, is just unfair to be a thing only available to Wortox, Winona and Wanda.

It will solve a lot of things about caves, great worm included 

[Bumber64]

20 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

At the same time majority of them will quit before the worm boss can spawn

You've discovered a pro strat.

[Mike23Ua]

14 hours ago, arubaro said:

Grinding fuel for ice flingomatics placed arround the map sounds like a very uncompromising, challenging fun gameplay.  You should release a videogame

That is not what I meant.. it never made any sense to say for example, be able to intentionally build a base in the meteor shower biome because as long as you off-load the area and aren’t over there while meteors are falling, your base will never be hit by meteors.

From a technical limitations standpoint: I understand that the game has to do this to prevent extreme unplayable lag.

But from a Immersion standpoint where I am supposed to believe I’m living in this hostile environment full of weather hazards and enemies that want me dead, it is extremely Immersion breaking.

[cropo]

12 hours ago, adminaaassh said:

I’ve revised the post and added a lot of content, including the developers' stance on changes to the Great Depths Worm, which I find very disappointing. I still believe the developers’ approach is wrong, and the Great Depths Worm can definitely be optimized. I hope this post gets more comments, encouraging more people to participate in the discussion to come up with better solutions. I also hope the developers will make some changes.

 

I actually really like their logic on this, and the fact that they don't drop a unique item so that a mega-baser loses nothing by simply turning it off if it's such a big problem for them is a good reason to not give it any unique drops.  I agree here, the warning is quite obvious that it will spawn and you have time to move away, megabasers will need to accomodate the worm in their builds with an area that is meant to deal with them and that nerfing its destructive potential would impact the threat of the worm itself.

Like I was totally down for nerfing the boulder rain and all that, but I don't think the depths worm needs a nerf. It's a breath of fresh air to have a giant menace aiming to kill you again in this game. I really don't think it's a problem.

[Antynomity]

Heres some food for thought: make some arenas around the caves if your base is THAT big to ensure you are always within reach of an area where destruction isn't a worry.

It's honestly sad seeing the death of creativity and/or thinking of solutions to problems the game throws at you, that's literally the core of DST.

I'm not sure if this is the case as I have been away from playing the game for a while, so if I'm wrong on this please do correct me, but the big ink blight, Horns, used to be able to destroy things, including the fissure overgrown by dread stone that he spawns from, with the removal of destruction from him, not only does it make you think less of base location (though fissures should be a bit better telegraphed when closed, it's really hard and sometimes impossible to notice, HOWEVER, there are places where they dont spawn. Use them.) but also it removed the cool tech of baiting Horns towards the fissure to break the dreadstone for you, making the trio slightly less interesting which is to it's detriment in my opinion.

 

TL;DR: use your noggin, be creative, come up with your own solutions to problems, especially ones like the great depth worm which is counterable.

[adminaaassh]

49 minutes ago, Antynomity said:

Heres some food for thought: make some arenas around the caves if your base is THAT big to ensure you are always within reach of an area where destruction isn't a worry.

It's honestly sad seeing the death of creativity and/or thinking of solutions to problems the game throws at you, that's literally the core of DST.

I'm not sure if this is the case as I have been away from playing the game for a while, so if I'm wrong on this please do correct me, but the big ink blight, Horns, used to be able to destroy things, including the fissure overgrown by dread stone that he spawns from, with the removal of destruction from him, not only does it make you think less of base location (though fissures should be a bit better telegraphed when closed, it's really hard and sometimes impossible to notice, HOWEVER, there are places where they dont spawn. Use them.) but also it removed the cool tech of baiting Horns towards the fissure to break the dreadstone for you, making the trio slightly less interesting which is to it's detriment in my opinion.

 

TL;DR: use your noggin, be creative, come up with your own solutions to problems, especially ones like the great depth worm which is counterable.

I have thoroughly discussed and understood the generation mechanics and relevant code with the group members. After conducting numerous detailed tests, I’ve discovered quite a few issues:

1. Great Depths Worm Attacks have a certain randomness. If you're unlucky, they can occur very frequently, and the locations where they appear are uncontrollable unless you use mods like Insight to notify you about the timing and location of the Great Depths Worm Attacks (although Insight currently can't indicate the exact location of the Great Depths Worm's appearance).

2. Even if you're given unexplored areas, the premise is that you can reach those areas within the required time and that they are at a safe distance from your base. However, most characters cannot achieve this. Currently, only Winona and Wanda can quickly traverse regions. Unless you provide every character with a Wanda or ensure they are all in a safe location during a Great Depths Worm Attack, it becomes challenging. I personally speculate that during testing, the developers all tested in the same location without considering that different players might be in different places doing various things.

3. When the Great Depths Worm appears, we can quickly leave the visible range, and after a while, it will automatically disappear. However, this is uncontrollable in multiplayer games. Although in the video I used ultra-wide views and night vision, during regular gameplay, we wouldn't do that. Additionally, in multiplayer, there will inevitably be many newcomers who don’t know exactly how to evade it.

4. This creature is categorized as a mini-boss, but in reality, it’s quite difficult to defeat. Different characters face varying levels of difficulty when trying to take it down, for instance, the difference between Wilson and Wolfgang. In multiplayer games, players don’t necessarily all have great strength or familiarity with mechanics; they choose different characters based on their own interests. Moreover, if there’s a mistake, it could lead to an endless knockback or even being swallowed whole and experiencing a quick, painful death (of course, it’s possible to kill it using ranged weapons, but its actual health is 5000, and it's best to fight while riding a beefalo and using ranged attacks).

In reality, many people have already responded to these issues in this post. I’ve taken a screenshot here. If possible, you can think more deeply about how, when you're playing the game normally and your teammates are doing different things underground, encountering these situations could cause you a lot of trouble and anxiety during regular gameplay.

I hope the description is accurate, as I am using machine translation and am not sure if what I have conveyed is correct

 

[Bumber64]

58 minutes ago, Antynomity said:

Heres some food for thought: make some arenas around the caves if your base is THAT big to ensure you are always within reach of an area where destruction isn't a worry.

Given the size of the loaded area around the player (see 2nd spoiler in OP), I think you'd struggle to find a spot that actually looks good in a megabase of that size. Just a huge mass of empty space smack dab in the middle of it all. I think it ends up being 25% of the megabase being empty to reach it in 30 sec? Maybe if you had a 60 sec warning it'd be different.

What would work is giving the worm a limited-use drop that lets you repel the worm or perform cave teleports. That gives you some control, while requiring you to fight the boss sometimes. Certain characters (Wanda, Winona, Wortox) can already do cave teleports, but you have to be playing as them.

The teleport option is probably better than the repel, considering use-cases. We've already got the bootleg getaway for surface, so this can summon a "depths wormhole" for a few minutes to take you somewhere you've already been in the caves. It can double as a wormhole relocator on the surface.

[adminaaassh]

Another issue is whether the developers have considered the actions of griefers, who might join your game or enter your base and cause havoc. Currently, there are mods that can prevent certain players from smashing objects or setting things on fire within a set period, but there is no way to stop players from luring the Great Depths Worm to different locations, as I demonstrated in the first video. Although I know that rolling back the server is an option, it's still quite annoying, and the rollback feature has a time limit of a maximum of five days.

As I mentioned at the beginning of the post, it’s not just about the base. For example, there are various types of factories and different character-specific buildings, like those that surround Splumonkey Pod, Slurper, and the natural spawn points of Depths Worms. When you reset the ruins, if you run over quickly, you can actually see the general area of these spawn points and build walls around them, gradually closing them off. This way, you can ensure that these areas remain safe and won't be disturbed in the future. You can refer to the second video in my post for more details.

[Milordo]

20 hours ago, arubaro said:

how big is a survival base?

Here some evidence:

 

• This is a world with only me and 1 pupil. The first one is a world he has lost. He's almost finishing the first level. He's stuck at Dragonfly and Bee queen.

 

 

• This is a world with me and 4 pupils, so 5 in total. They decided to live in a "feudalism" state, so the base is divided with each their room. This is my room lmao. This group is the only one of 50+ people in my community, that are going towards a megabase playstyle. They finished the first level, caves and ruins.

 

 

• This is a world with me and other 4 pupils, so 5 in total. It seems to be a megabase, but it is not, they're 5 people afterall. They finished the first level, caves, ruins and now adventuring to the ocean (pray for their souls).

 

All these people completely blind, playing with me, completely 0% backseating or telling, nothing.

I would have more screenshots, but my file is a mess, so these were the fastes ones I could pulled up.

[00petar00]

22 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

the thing is a late game base isn't small even for a survival player unless for some reason your playing like grm8.

22 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Because it simply isn't true the only way it isn't going to affect someone is only if they don't have a base assuming otherwise is simply bad faith. The only thing this seems to imply is that the experience of those without a megabase is negligible in your eyes. 

You are comparing someone having a base after first year with the basics which I consider very small, covering like half a screen or up to a screen at most with farm soil. 

I am not saying that it can't be bigger but that it is very rare or players intentionally build structures too far apart but knowing about worm boss no one that is basing in caves will make such a mistake again.

You are intentionally ignoring that someone with a megabase and nowhere to escape (not playing characters that can teleport) will literally have to walk on eggshells and maybe won't be able to avoid destruction to some part of the base no matter what they do unless they make arenas just for worm boss.

Caves are already much more difficult to base in, there's no light in most of them and there is a constant sanity drain, we don't need a worm boss that is so destructive while he can also eat you and delete all the items, this is simply unfair.

22 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean assuming a large portion of a megabaser's base isn't destroyed it should be just as easy to rebuild. Your acting like it's not a big deal for us but then it shouldn't be for you either.

It is very easy to build when you don't care If you missplaced something by 1 geometric placement square but I want things built exactly where they were previously.

Players with so many hours with so much experience with the game should be able to avoid destruction without building arenas to counter one boss as it defeats the purpose of megabasing and is going to affect the design and aesthetic.

Having a megabase isn't an advantage in DST but a constant negative because you have to protect it and everything is spaced out so it isn't efficient anyway.

22 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

We do when it's being implied that we're only building a crockpot and supposedly that's why we don't have a stake in how the worm is handled.

We really don't have to go into this discussion when only grm and maybe 5 other players play like this but I have realized years back that it is much more efficient and easier to play without a base and survive indefinitely. This just isn't that fun to do so almost no one plays like that, I am not using it for my argument here as to why worm boss should be changed.

On the topic of the worm boss the destructive ability to structure is too high for no good reason no matter the size of a base but it will mostly affect players with big bases that can't move away in time and will always have to be careful. Getting eaten by the worm and dying will result in losing everything you are carrying so its not only destruction to bases that is overly punishing.

Worm boss will result in so many rollbacks whenever someone makes a mistake because no one wants to lose a big chunk of a base or everything they are carrying. When void walking was possible losing all items when you died in void was seen as a massive punishment by klei for using this bug and besides that we have only had lureplants that can be easily countered to not spawn in base by changing turf or putting items in chests. No one likes such a massive punishment for a before rift boss that attacks a player and should be comparable to varg.

 

[Milordo]

11 hours ago, Peaches44 said:

Klei just needs to put ways to teleport in caves . Can be expensive (more purple gems or another gem color) or another craft, I dont know. What I do know is, at this moment, is just unfair to be a thing only available to Wortox, Winona and Wanda.

It will solve a lot of things about caves, great worm included 

[arubaro]

26 minutes ago, Milordo said:

Here some evidence:

 

• This is a world with only me and 1 pupil. The first one is a world he has lost. He's almost finishing the first level. He's stuck at Dragonfly and Bee queen.

 

 

• This is a world with me and 4 pupils, so 5 in total. They decided to live in a "feudalism" state, so the base is divided with each their room. This is my room lmao. This group is the only one of 50+ people in my community, that are going towards a megabase playstyle. They finished the first level, caves and ruins.

 

 

• This is a world with me and other 4 pupils, so 5 in total. It seems to be a megabase, but it is not, they're 5 people afterall. They finished the first level, caves, ruins and now adventuring to the ocean (pray for their souls).

 

All these people completely blind, playing with me, completely 0% backseating or telling, nothing.

I would have more screenshots, but my file is a mess, so these were the fastes ones I could pulled up.

That is what i meant. Is easy to leave futher enough to prevent any danger 

With my noob friends, since we were many playing, the base ended up kinda big taking in count some decorations, farms like bees or berries futher from the core, etc

This kind of destruction only affects really new people that are confidence enough to believe that they have time and nothing bad will happend

Again, is more what is lose with these mechanic that what is gained. Doesnt compensate 

1 minute ago, Milordo said:

Shadow magic that doesnt work were the shadows are stronger 

[Milordo]

8 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Shadow magic that doesnt work were the shadows are stronger 

Yeah. It would make more sense not working on Lunar Island and Grotto + Archives.

[Bumber64]

3 hours ago, arubaro said:

Shadow magic that doesnt work were the shadows are stronger 

It uses lightning. Unless Klei retcons how it works, focused telelocation can't operate for the same reason random telelocation can't.

[Ohan]

5 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

It uses lightning. Unless Klei retcons how it works, focused telelocation can't operate for the same reason random telelocation can't.

Winona’s telebrella is able to create lightning in the caves though for some reason.. 

[Anis5240]

It has immense damage for sure.

Doing over 5k HP worth of damage onto Daywalker before dying surely was something.

[arubaro]

1 hour ago, Bumber64 said:

It uses lightning. Unless Klei retcons how it works, focused telelocation can't operate for the same reason random telelocation can't.

Yes but the thing is that, if you place a lightning rod, the lightning doesnt perform the teleportation so the lore behind the item is broken since it was implemented 

[Milordo]

1 hour ago, Bumber64 said:

It uses lightning. Unless Klei retcons how it works, focused telelocation can't operate for the same reason random telelocation can't.

Yes, I know the reasons behind. In summary it's just because "this item is very old, reflecting an old Klei and Don't Starve". That's why it needs a rework.

[BezKa]

On 9/14/2024 at 2:06 PM, BezKa said:

- give us a reliable teleportation method in the caves.

Made some concepts with very ugly drawings.

 

[Peaches44]

7 hours ago, Milordo said:

just try to use it there and see if it works (:

[Mike23Ua]

4 minutes ago, Peaches44 said:

just try to use it there and see if it works (:

Is this the one where you need to build one of these on the surface and a separate one down in the caves and then socket the outer edges of BOTH with purple Gems, and then to teleport between the two you need to stand dead in the center of this but upon doing so it will consume and destroy all 6 purple gems?

Thats a super expensive method of Teleportation.. Purple Gems are very hard to obtain when RNG is Involved, I’ve fought off many hound/Varg waves and they just don’t reliably drop enough Red/Blue gems to refine into purples to make this Teleporter pad worthwhile.

I think I’ve only ever built one a handful of times and mostly just as base decor, I’ve only used it to “teleport” even fewer times. 

[Mysterious box]

8 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

You are comparing someone having a base after first year with the basics which I consider very small, covering like half a screen or up to a screen at most with farm soil. 

I am not saying that it can't be bigger but that it is very rare or players intentionally build structures too far apart but knowing about worm boss no one that is basing in caves will make such a mistake again.

I'm not comparing bases meant to last a few hours because it's natural that people wouldn't invest much into those since those bases will be gone forever by the end of the session so I don't see it being a valid point of discussion for the conversation.

As for people with bases meant to last over a year it seems very rare for it to be made small at least in my experience. That aside I think it's pointless going into this topic of whose opinions are valid or not it's counter productive to getting the devs to take the conversation seriously.

8 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

On the topic of the worm boss the destructive ability to structure is too high for no good reason no matter the size of a base but it will mostly affect players with big bases that can't move away in time and will always have to be careful. Getting eaten by the worm and dying will result in losing everything you are carrying so its not only destruction to bases that is overly punishing.

Worm boss will result in so many rollbacks whenever someone makes a mistake because no one wants to lose a big chunk of a base or everything they are carrying. When void walking was possible losing all items when you died in void was seen as a massive punishment by klei for using this bug and besides that we have only had lureplants that can be easily countered to not spawn in base by changing turf or putting items in chests. No one likes such a massive punishment for a before rift boss that attacks a player and should be comparable to varg.

Personally I'm in agreement that the worm shouldn't be able to destroy our loot when we die like I get why they did it but it does feel too harsh to piggyback off a another idea someone else suggested the boss should drop the items he's eaten when defeated but to add a failsafe for less skilled players it should make some kind og poop mound shortly after it despawns with you loot inside if you can't beat it. You could dig through the mound to get your items back at the cost of sanity at least that's how I feel it should work.

As for his spawn there was also another suggestion that would be perfect for it the idea was that when he would spawn in a wave he'd spawn from the ceiling but not immediately. Light would spawn over a player's head for a minute before the spawn at that point it would be up to the player to run away from things they don't want damaged.

The person suggested an additional part where it would destroy pillars but not the dreadstone ones to hold it back until you left the protection of those pillars.

Personally I love the solutions suggested and hope klei follows through with them as it will make the worm feel much better without taking away from the experience however one change I'd personally make to the pillar idea is that the normal pillar would just take a 10 durability hit per 30 seconds instead and that the drop down timer wouldn't start until it destroyed the pillars blocking it or you moved away from the pillars.

To summarize the pillar idea it would be normal pillars would temporarily hold him back but dreadstone pillars would indefinitely until you left the area of protection which in either case the 1 minute drop from ceiling timer would start.

[Milordo]

2 hours ago, Peaches44 said:

just try to use it there and see if it works (:

the point was to rework the item and fill the needs you wanted instead of leaving it there, taking dust, and bloating the game by adding another one (:

[Well-met]

i am now convinced mega basers are a poison to this game