The destructive power of the Great Depths Worm is immense and irreversible

[adminaaassh]

I made some modifications and additions to this post. I originally wanted to adjust the position of the videos, but it seems I can’t. The two videos above cannot be played.

The two videos above cannot be played, and I don’t know how to delete them. If anyone knows, please let me know. Thank you!

I apologize, I don't understand English very well, so all the text was translated using ChatGPT. If there are any mistakes, please point them out. I hope everyone can understand.

If possible, I hope that players who enjoy building bases and various small landscapes can upload screenshots or, even better, videos of their creations. This will help the developers understand the severity of the issue. Both surface and underground bases are welcome, as most of them can be replicated in the other environment.

Due to the destructive nature of the **Great Depths Worm**, it can cause a lot of unpredictable damage, which is fatal and irreversible for long-term save files and players who enjoy building underground homes. Many people spend time carefully arranging small landscapes and large structures to make their bases more beautiful, and this destructive ability can completely ruin those efforts.

Thus, I believe it's important to emphasize the destructive nature of the **Great Depths Worm** so that the developers can properly understand how terrifying its damage can be and what it can destroy. To illustrate this point, I’ve recorded a video. Although I don’t have many underground structures, I used surface buildings to demonstrate the issue. Additionally, I have shared links to some online videos here. Even though many of these show surface structures, they can easily be adapted to underground builds. (This doesn’t mean that no one builds underground bases; in fact, I’ve seen many people build homes underground, especially in extremely long-term saves. For example, in save files lasting 10,000 or 50,000 days, players almost always build underground homes that are not only beautiful but also well-planned and aesthetically pleasing.)

For many extremely long-term save files, both their surface and underground worlds resemble cities, with almost every area planned and built upon. Players design beautiful landscapes, painstakingly adjusting the placement of items to make everything look more natural and aesthetically pleasing. Now, with the appearance of this creature, irreversible damage is highly likely, which I believe is completely unacceptable.

Here are some related online videos:

Spoiler

连基地都是爱你的形状 (bilibili.com)

【饥荒建家】建造简易豪华家园！（六芒星主基地与八扩展地块~）_饥荒联机版_攻略 (bilibili.com)

【饥荒联机 延时摄影】复现万天全图建家_单机游戏热门视频 (bilibili.com)

【饥荒建家】当饥荒玩家抄了无数作业后_饥荒联机版 (bilibili.com)

【饥荒联机版】好看又实用的月台造景_饥荒联机版_演示 (bilibili.com)

【饥荒建家】1800天公共多人档联机豪华庄园总览_单机游戏热门视频 (bilibili.com)

In fact, there are many more examples, but I’ve only found a small portion here.

The second-to-last video was filmed after I entered a group friend's save file with nearly 9,000 in-game days. Since I didn’t have enough days in the world, most of the content shown is on the surface, but that’s fine. I believe this video can still reflect the issue well, because in many ultra-long-term saves, most of the scenery above and below ground is quite similar and can mirror each other.

What I want to say is that building an elegant base isn’t as simple as it might seem. Even placing items that lack interaction can still look beautiful. There are many factors to consider when constructing each small scene. For example, how different durability walls match, how to pair buildings with fireflies at night, designing various shapes, using special events, and creating a particular atmosphere—all these are things to consider when creating a long-lasting and beautiful base.

Additionally, it’s not just about base-building. There are game mechanics to consider, such as spawn points of various creatures, how to avoid monsters, and how to gather specific creatures in one spot so they stop respawning. These are the interests and efforts of long-term players, representing their deep understanding of the game. It’s also not something that’s achieved in one go. It takes trial and error, continuous learning, constant communication with teammates, transporting materials, sharing ideas, and making improvements over time to create beautiful and unique scenery.

This is also why I’m opposed to the current Cave Worm Attacks. I believe the Cave Worm Attacks should undergo significant changes.

When I was editing the post, a group member informed me that the developers had already stated during a livestream that there wouldn't be any major changes to the Great Depths Worm. I found the relevant original video and placed it at the end for everyone to see.

After watching it, my opinion is that the developers might not fully and deeply understand the situation. For ultra-long-term saves, it's almost inevitable that the surface and underground worlds will turn into massive cities in the later stages. We hope to enjoy the benefits of updates without damaging the bases we’ve painstakingly built. I was also surprised that, while the developers considered this issue, their suggestion was for players to turn off world settings. I believe this takes away from the enjoyment of the game and is quite unfair to players who have deeply understood the game and played for long periods of time.

I don’t know how the developers define Don't Starve Together, but should a game that lasts from hundreds to thousands of in-game days, without building any large bases, and then starting a new save be the way this game is played? Therefore, I hope the Great Depths Worm will be modified. I believe there is a lot of room for optimization, and through some clever changes, it’s possible to find a good balance between the creature’s abilities and the players, without altering the creature's inherent traits and characteristics.

If the developers lack inspiration, perhaps they could set up a suggestion thread to gather ideas. I believe many great ideas could come from that.

Below is a simple explanation of why the Great Depths Worm can cause significant damage (though it's not entirely accurate and the illustration is a bit rough):

Spoiler

To explain the problem, within the **blue line** is the normal character's vision range, while between the **red line** and the blue line is the **Great Depths Worm** spawn range. When the **Great Depths Worm** spawns within this range, if there are structures present, your buildings might be destroyed without you even realizing it. This is fatal for long-term saves with many beautiful buildings. (Of course, the survival mechanics and spawning probabilities are a bit more complex, and I’m just giving an overview. While only one can spawn at a time, with distinct music and dialogue cues, it still poses a serious threat.)

[arubaro]

They should reduce the spawn area or, as @Malfariosuggested, make it spawn under the player. Not only solves that but is funnier and fitting that the 1st thing they does is trying to swallow you

[00petar00]

I don't even understand why on klei livestream they said something like this "we don't want to make it less impactful/consequential" I can't remember the exact words but it was something along those lines.

The issue is that this is only impactful to cave basers/megabasers and no one else will care about destructive nature of greater depth worm, so their understanding of the game and destructive mechanics seems way off.

I don't agree that we should be required to consider worm battle arena when building megabases, megabasing is already very inefficient and caves aren't surface so corridors and specific areas areas can't be molded how you like because we don't have docks and new bridges can't replace docks. It isn't easy to run away from your base in 30 or so seconds and the range greater depth worm spawns around you is big enough for you to get unlucky.

At the same time its not fun when you are already on edge when cave basing, the reason I escaped surface to base in caves was because of so many destructive mechanics we have there but each and every one of them is counterable except wildfires that can be turned off so now cave megabasing doesn't even have that benefit, we already had to go though misery toadstool to duplicate skin for mushlights/glowcaps for light and this was a punishment enough for basing.

Ignoring destruction mechanics, I don't ever want to fight this worm unless I have don't starve alone mod because getting eaten once means death for me as Wanda player, there's no second chance as I'll be fighting in old age and lose my full inventory. It is too punishing even to someone not playing Wanda as it literally melts armor and most of your HP when you are eaten so you better run, you can win the fight but it is never worth the risk of losing your gear or getting eaten once.

[DegenerateFurry]

Can't you just run out of your base when the worms start to grumble?

[ansuman]

we can turn off the giant depth worth from world settings, game shouldnt be balanced around mega-bases in a survival game.

[Mike23Ua]

Update still isn’t out for Xbox, so I still can not give accurate feedback on my opinion about it, PlayStation has the update already yay for them I guess but Xbox’s update was bugged & now the game is literally in a state of being unplayable if you happened to have a save file with the newer content before Klei pulled the update back to the previous one.

With that said the surface shard of DST has a lot of destructive elements, Deerclops, Antlion Sinkholes, Wildfires, Bearger, Freak Lightning Strikes, EoT/ToT etc..

Caves is intended to by default be “harder” than the surface shard, it’s an area you go to for more difficult dangers, and up until now.. Caves didn’t really have any of these.

I don’t think it’s really “fair” in my opinion that people who “escaped” the dangers of the surface shard intentionally base in what’s meant to be a more difficult server, and they complain when that server gets less safe for them or their bases.

[adminaaassh]

For destructive creatures on the surface, there are actually ways to prevent damage. For example, you can use hostile flares to summon Deerclops early and lead it to a suitable area to be killed. Bearger can be kept in one location indefinitely, and wildfires have corresponding mechanisms and equipment to prevent them. Almost every destructive force on the surface can be avoided in some way. However, the Great Depths Worm underground is different. It appears as frequently as Hound attacks, and it’s only a matter of time. Once it shows up, it will immediately cause damage to the surrounding area.

Additionally, the damage it causes is completely uncontrollable. If you have a base on the surface and dogs appear, as long as you don’t actively attack the hounds, they won’t explode, and fire hounds won’t set things on fire. You can simply lure them away to keep your base safe.

Another important point is player habits. In long-term multiplayer games with close-knit teams, underground structures are inevitable. No matter how long you play, whether you build above ground or below, it will eventually turn into a town-like world—unless an admin imposes restrictions.

[cropo]

I really don't see any problem with this boss, and I haven't tried yet but if it can be used to go to town on a splemunkey biome even better.


For me depths worms were always a forced relocation from the area you were in. Fighting them naturally took a lot of time to do safely for most characters and they do harsh levels of damage to punish any mistake. When you hear that growling, that's your queue to get ready to find a spot to "deposit" them and run off screen. You kind of had to "respect" the depths worms if you weren't in a good spot to grind them with your bunnyman kingdom. They weren't going to kill you, but they were going to "affect" you in some way.

The great worm is just an extension of that idea; it's a forced relocation and an even greater punishment if you continue to persist in the area you're in. Just seems like an overall good addition to the caves to me.

[arubaro]

33 minutes ago, ansuman said:

survival game

Do you believe that the worm chopping and mining resources is a survival threat??

[00petar00]

34 minutes ago, ansuman said:

we can turn off the giant depth worth from world settings, game shouldnt be balanced around mega-bases in a survival game.

Survival players mostly aren't affected by destruction mechanics so it doesn't really matter to them besides wanting to spite megabasers with such mechanics.

 

[Mike23Ua]

2 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Survival players mostly aren't affected by destruction mechanics so it doesn't really matter to them besides wanting to spite megabasers with such mechanics.

 

This is false and you freakin know it.

Wurts entire gameplay revolves almost exclusively around building structures for her Merms & when she does.. she becomes an almost unstoppable monster, almost Wonder Woman with an army of Amazonian level OP.

So how do you challenge Wurt? You threaten her Kingdom.

Please stop with this whole “It’ll only challenge Megabasers” concept, it is objectively false and the more characters Klei adds to the game who’s gameplay revolves around building structures or base stuff- The more that needs to have content that interacts with and challenges it.

[adminaaassh]

I believe the main concerns can actually be addressed by answering a few key questions. If these questions are resolved, then conflicts may no longer exist:

1. Are you aware that there are some extremely long-term save files, such as those lasting 50,000 days, where both the surface and underground worlds have been completely and beautifully planned, and are still being expanded?
2. Have you only played short-term save files (100–300 days), or only played long-term single-player saves, or mostly played alone, without enough time to fully plan the surface and underground worlds?
3. If similar changes were made to the surface world, such as rain damaging buildings, would you be okay with that? Even if there were warnings or methods to avoid it, it could still cause damage if you reacted too slowly or were too busy focusing on something else to avoid it.
4. Are you okay with the developers disrupting your long-established gameplay habits?

If anyone can provide a perfect answer to these questions, I would like to hear it.

[Cassielu]

Whatever megabaser or not, "Stop what you're doing right now and leave the base in X seconds to avoid it being destroyed" is a totally bizarre and counter-intuitive pooper. It's not even a challenge, it's just annoying for no reason.

I can't believe they're still making this mechanic in 2024.

[adminaaassh]

In fact, I’ve wanted to say this for a long time: Could the developers perhaps ask some long-term players for their save files and conduct related tests within those long-term saves? This way, they might be able to think more deeply about the impact of certain changes.

[ALCRD]

24 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

This is false and you freakin know it.

Wurts entire gameplay revolves almost exclusively around building structures for her Merms & when she does.. she becomes an almost unstoppable monster, almost Wonder Woman with an army of Amazonian level OP.

So how do you challenge Wurt? You threaten her Kingdom.

Please stop with this whole “It’ll only challenge Megabasers” concept, it is objectively false and the more characters Klei adds to the game who’s gameplay revolves around building structures or base stuff- The more that needs to have content that interacts with and challenges it.

Tho you can make Wurts base super compact as aesthetics aren't important for power. You can cram in quite a lot of huts in tiny space.

So Great Worms aren't really a threat for "pure power" play. Just step away few feet from your cramped merm barracks and fight it with your army.

[00petar00]

20 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

This is false and you freakin know it.

Wurts entire gameplay revolves almost exclusively around building structures for her Merms & when she does.. she becomes an almost unstoppable monster, almost Wonder Woman with an army of Amazonian level OP.

So how do you challenge Wurt? You threaten her Kingdom.

Please stop with this whole “It’ll only challenge Megabasers” concept, it is objectively false and the more characters Klei adds to the game who’s gameplay revolves around building structures or base stuff- The more that needs to have content that interacts with and challenges it.

I want to you tell me how often have you seen Wurt build in caves without being disingenuous.

Wurt is one character so even If this is the case for her, most players choosing other characters to play won't build in caves at all.

It still wouldn't be fun for any Wurt player to have their merm houses destroyed but it wouldn't matter most of the time since just building merms wouldn't make your base massive and it has nothing to with megabasing.

12 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

Whatever megabaser or not, "Stop what you're doing right now and leave the base in X seconds to avoid it being destroyed" is a totally bizarre and counter-intuitive pooper. It's not even a challenge, it's just annoying for no reason.

I can't believe they're still making this mechanic in 2024.

That's what it is and it makes no logical sense. I don't understand how this makes it more difficult or matters for anyone not basing in the caves. Klei stating something like they don't want to make the worm boss more tame and saying that we should build arenas/areas to fight the boss shows their lack of understanding.

9 minutes ago, adminaaassh said:

In fact, I’ve wanted to say this for a long time: Could the developers perhaps ask some long-term players for their save files and conduct related tests within those long-term saves? This way, they might be able to think more deeply about the impact of certain changes.

That was done and that's why we got elastispacier/infinite chests because on long term worlds items were causing a lot of lag as every item in normal chest is somehow rendered or something, I don't have a good understanding of this as I don't code.

[NPCMaxwell]

Maybe the warning period for Wormy could be expanded? Or there being a method to repell the Wormy from destroying structures for an extended duration, enough time to escape?

[Cassielu]

33 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

So how do you challenge Wurt? You threaten her Kingdom.

Please stop with this whole “It’ll only challenge Megabasers” concept, it is objectively false and the more characters Klei adds to the game who’s gameplay revolves around building structures or base stuff- The more that needs to have content that interacts with and challenges it.

Mike, Mike, Mike, video games don't work that way, the challenge doesn't exist to beat the player, the challenge exists to get the player to do something with the goal of beating them.

Even if what you're saying is true, it's just challenging the player to hold down one single button for 30 seconds. What kind of challenge is that?

[paodocevoante1]

2 hours ago, adminaaassh said:

If possible, I hope that players who enjoy building bases and various small landscapes can upload screenshots or, even better, videos of their creations. This will help the developers understand the severity of the issue. Both surface and underground bases are welcome, as most of them can be replicated in the other environment.

Due to the destructive nature of the **Great Depths Worm**, it can cause a lot of unpredictable damage, which is fatal and irreversible for long-term save files and players who enjoy building underground homes. Many people spend time carefully arranging small landscapes and large structures to make their bases more beautiful, and this destructive ability can completely ruin those efforts.

Thus, I believe it's important to emphasize the destructive nature of the **Great Depths Worm** so that the developers can properly understand how terrifying its damage can be and what it can destroy. To illustrate this point, I’ve recorded a video. Although I don’t have many underground structures, I used surface buildings to demonstrate the issue. Additionally, I have shared links to some online videos here. Even though many of these show surface structures, they can easily be adapted to underground builds. (This doesn’t mean that no one builds underground bases; in fact, I’ve seen many people build homes underground, especially in extremely long-term saves. For example, in save files lasting 10,000 or 50,000 days, players almost always build underground homes that are not only beautiful but also well-planned and aesthetically pleasing.)

For many extremely long-term save files, both their surface and underground worlds resemble cities, with almost every area planned and built upon. Players design beautiful landscapes, painstakingly adjusting the placement of items to make everything look more natural and aesthetically pleasing. Now, with the appearance of this creature, irreversible damage is highly likely, which I believe is completely unacceptable.

Here are some related online videos:

  Reveal hidden contents

连基地都是爱你的形状 (bilibili.com)

【饥荒建家】建造简易豪华家园！（六芒星主基地与八扩展地块~）_饥荒联机版_攻略 (bilibili.com)

【饥荒联机 延时摄影】复现万天全图建家_单机游戏热门视频 (bilibili.com)

【饥荒建家】当饥荒玩家抄了无数作业后_饥荒联机版 (bilibili.com)

【饥荒联机版】好看又实用的月台造景_饥荒联机版_演示 (bilibili.com)

【饥荒建家】1800天公共多人档联机豪华庄园总览_单机游戏热门视频 (bilibili.com)

In fact, there are many more examples, but I’ve only found a small portion here.

Below is a simple explanation of why the Great Depths Worm can cause significant damage (though it's not entirely accurate and the illustration is a bit rough):

  Reveal hidden contents

To explain the problem, within the **blue line** is the normal character's vision range, while between the **red line** and the blue line is the **Great Depths Worm** spawn range. When the **Great Depths Worm** spawns within this range, if there are structures present, your buildings might be destroyed without you even realizing it. This is fatal for long-term saves with many beautiful buildings. (Of course, the survival mechanics and spawning probabilities are a bit more complex, and I’m just giving an overview. While only one can spawn at a time, with distinct music and dialogue cues, it still poses a serious threat.)

 

Just get out of your base and defeat him  

[arubaro]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

This is false and you freakin know it.

Wurts entire gameplay revolves almost exclusively around building structures for her Merms & when she does.. she becomes an almost unstoppable monster, almost Wonder Woman with an army of Amazonian level OP.

So how do you challenge Wurt? You threaten her Kingdom.

Please stop with this whole “It’ll only challenge Megabasers” concept, it is objectively false and the more characters Klei adds to the game who’s gameplay revolves around building structures or base stuff- The more that needs to have content that interacts with and challenges it.

Man, your vision of the game, your understanding of mechanics and balance never stops amazing me

What are you waiting for beating the game with wurt?

[Mike23Ua]

36 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

Mike, Mike, Mike, video games don't work that way, the challenge doesn't exist to beat the player, the challenge exists to get the player to do something with the goal of beating them.

Even if what you're saying is true, it's just challenging the player to hold down one single button for 30 seconds. What kind of challenge is that?

The “challenge” is in needing to go gather resources to rebuild whatever gets destroyed.

Many people play the game in many different ways there really is no definitive way to play DST.

And I can only speak from my own personal experiences with the game. 

When a structure gets destroyed (in this particular case it would Wurt Structures) those things have to be rebuilt, and require the regathering of resources that feeds into the core gameplay loop.

IF a player plays as Wolfgang and actually utilized his Gym, that getting Destroyed = Needing to gather resources to rebuild it.

Same thing with Wendy and the Sisturn.

Winona Structures and Tele-porters.

Etc..

I would go so far as to argue that having things get “destroyed” is just as much a survival aspect as fighting your completely optional 27,500 hp raid bosses.

[grm9]

Just now, Mike23Ua said:

IF a player plays as Wolfgang and actually utilized his Gym, that getting Destroyed = Needing to gather resources to rebuild it

worm spawns within like 20 tiles away from the player at most

player's speed's 1.5 tiles per second

you get 30 seconds for running away

you go through 45 tiles even if you were standing directly on top of whatever you don't want to get destroyed

it gets no chance for possibly ever breaking from any thing that has a warning

this only affects mega basers because making a base that's bigger in comparison to 1 screen worth of space'sn't worth it and's only for fun

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

The “challenge” is in needing to go gather resources to rebuild whatever gets destroyed

most of the time that just ends up being holding space near a pig house, trees or rocks

2 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Can't you just run out of your base when the worms start to grumble?

30 seconds from the start of the warning to worm spawning, not enough if no teleportation and you're mega basing

[ADM]

1 hour ago, Cassielu said:

Whatever megabaser or not, "Stop what you're doing right now and leave the base in X seconds to avoid it being destroyed" is a totally bizarre and counter-intuitive pooper. It's not even a challenge, it's just annoying for no reason.

I can't believe they're still making this mechanic in 2024.

I guess the only problem with it is you can never really tell if it will be basic worms or the big boi. Because I'm not complaining about getting Deerclops or Bearger generally, I'll just move out and be back on my things whenever I finished, and sometimes there's the round two because of Lunar Rifts (or if I don't want there's generally a torch laying around)... so I just treat worm waves exactly the same now and really I'm fine to have to fight things momentally, I'd want more in fact. Only disappointment is having to wait away for kinda "nothing" if it's just basic worms. Even if ideally you never want any worm whatsoever in your base at least that better be my case since I play with other players and they wouldn't want a worm hanging right about the staircase.

[gaymime]

2 hours ago, adminaaassh said:

In fact, I’ve wanted to say this for a long time: Could the developers perhaps ask some long-term players for their save files and conduct related tests within those long-term saves? This way, they might be able to think more deeply about the impact of certain changes.

i think that would actually be a rather useful thing though i am not sure how many people have 100% vanilla worlds which would be the most useful

[arubaro]

42 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

The “challenge” is in needing to go gather resources to rebuild whatever gets destroyed

That is only a challenge for people with less than 50h...