chirsg Posted August 23, 2024 Share Posted August 23, 2024 I'm not going to make a structured paragraph. I'm just going to throw things in bullet points caveman style - Stone bridge - Permanent fixture - Suited for long term worlds - Looks better - Indestructible - Infinite range - Logically justifiable because they're supported by pillars - Expensive. Why tf not - If the art looks anything like my suggestions, add them to the surface too. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159154-stone-bridges-in-caves/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
xhyom Posted August 23, 2024 Share Posted August 23, 2024 7 minutes ago, chirsg said: - If the art looks anything like my suggestions, add them to the surface too. I don't think it would work/looks good on the surface because the water is almost like a blue turf and there is no elevation of the terrain so it would be mostly covered, if not covered, but it should be doable in the caves I hope... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159154-stone-bridges-in-caves/#findComment-1741931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted August 23, 2024 Share Posted August 23, 2024 15 minutes ago, chirsg said: Infinite range This is very unlikely to happen they clearly didn't want bridges to end up extending across the entire cave system. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159154-stone-bridges-in-caves/#findComment-1741938 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirsg Posted August 23, 2024 Author Share Posted August 23, 2024 6 minutes ago, xhyom said: I don't think it would work/looks good on the surface because the water is almost like a blue turf and there is no elevation of the terrain so it would be mostly covered, if not covered, but it should be doable in the caves I hope... No. It would look good on the surface. Just now, Mysterious box said: This is very unlikely to happen they clearly didn't want bridges to end up extending across the entire cave system. No. Offset it by the expense factor. You don't see docks covering entire oceans. and even if they do, it obstructs sailing, which is now a good and passable mechanic. Caves don't have a saving grace. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159154-stone-bridges-in-caves/#findComment-1741939 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted August 23, 2024 Share Posted August 23, 2024 2 minutes ago, chirsg said: No. Offset it by the expense factor. You don't see docks covering entire oceans. and even if they do, it obstructs sailing, which is now a good and passable mechanic. Caves don't have a saving grace. That's not really the point though? Also I'd say this new content is the saving grace at least I know I'll enjoy it. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159154-stone-bridges-in-caves/#findComment-1741942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auth Posted August 23, 2024 Share Posted August 23, 2024 Why stop there? Bridges of all kinds of different materials with different purposes and looks could be great. I wouldn't say immediately jumping to giving one made of a basic material like stone infinite range, as it'd kind of kill the purpose for anything else (even the cheaper one), and likely just be super annoying to gather the materials for, especially since stone can be in pretty high demand for longer running worlds anyways. But imagine expanding on it, the rope bridges being the basic option, unlocked early just by prototyping... Stone being a more expensive option with a bit more range, probably more health, maybe it's blueprint needs to be discovered on an island that needs to be bridged to in the first place... Thulecite bridge upgrades to make it not need repairs... Dreadstone bridges having infinite range but butchering your sanity while you walk on it as a trade-off... Actually, if anything, having dreadstone be an infinite range one feels thematically appropriate for a replacement for "void"walking anyways... Lots of opportunities here! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159154-stone-bridges-in-caves/#findComment-1741943 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larael Posted August 23, 2024 Share Posted August 23, 2024 20 minutes ago, chirsg said: - Infinite range Yes, also make an item that deletes the atrium biome and relocate it next to us. Exploring is for noobs c: True gamers play with commands enable Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159154-stone-bridges-in-caves/#findComment-1741944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirsg Posted August 23, 2024 Author Share Posted August 23, 2024 Just now, Auth said: Why stop there? Bridges of all kinds of different materials with different purposes and looks could be great. I wouldn't say immediately jumping to giving one made of a basic material like stone infinite range, as it'd kind of kill the purpose for anything else (even the cheaper one), and likely just be super annoying to gather the materials for, especially since stone can be in pretty high demand for longer running worlds anyways. But imagine expanding on it, the rope bridges being the basic option, unlocked early just by prototyping... Stone being a more expensive option with a bit more range, probably more health, maybe it's blueprint needs to be discovered on an island that needs to be bridged to in the first place... Thulecite bridge upgrades to make it not need repairs... Dreadstone bridges having infinite range but butchering your sanity while you walk on it as a trade-off... Actually, if anything, having dreadstone be an infinite range one feels thematically appropriate for a replacement for "void"walking anyways... Lots of opportunities here! Don't get carried away. Keep it simple. Stone bridges, infinite durability, infinite range. That's it. Don't complicate it. Complicated after the stone bridges are added in. 1 minute ago, Larael said: Yes, also make an item that deletes the atrium biome and relocate it next to us. Exploring is for noobs c: True gamers play with commands enable Yeah. Infinite range. It doesn't hurt you. Same way void walking never hurt you. Having nice things, despite what you may think is good, without you trying to add a sarcastic, condescending and dismissive attitude to it. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159154-stone-bridges-in-caves/#findComment-1741945 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larael Posted August 23, 2024 Share Posted August 23, 2024 3 minutes ago, chirsg said: Yeah. Infinite range. It doesn't hurt you. Same way void walking never hurt you. True doesn't hurt me but what's the point of infinite range on a bridge ? For me an infinite range brigde just means, avoid everything the game offers you in terms of gameplay and just walk a straight line to the atrium or AG maybe in some world gens skip the ruins. I trully don't understand the point of infinite and I'll be glad if you can explain it a bit more from your perspective. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159154-stone-bridges-in-caves/#findComment-1741957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirsg Posted August 23, 2024 Author Share Posted August 23, 2024 7 minutes ago, Larael said: True doesn't hurt me but what's the point of infinite range on a bridge ? For me an infinite range brigde just means, avoid everything the game offers you in terms of gameplay and just walk a straight line to the atrium or AG maybe in some world gens skip the ruins. I trully don't understand the point of infinite and I'll be glad if you can explain it a bit more from your perspective. You're never going to walk in a straight line to the AG, guy. Actually, if anything, the wood bridges completely defecates on the challenge which is supposed to define the labyrinth, so your straight line to AG is completely and utterly moot in every single definition of the term. As far as the atrium goes, my proposition to unlimited range cave bridges is to offset it with a high price tag of materials which makes it completely unviable within the circumstance of killing fuelweaever in the first autumn, winter or spring at the latest. The logic is consistent with bridges to lunar island using docks. People do it and it enhances their game. I don't, because I think it's stupid, but that's just my opinion which is worthless to those who enjoy a bridge. Let them have it. I wouldn't want to take it away from them. A bridge to fuelweaver literally only serves to make life easier for worlds that go on longer than 1000 days. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159154-stone-bridges-in-caves/#findComment-1741969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flarezen Posted August 23, 2024 Share Posted August 23, 2024 1 minute ago, chirsg said: A bridge to fuelweaver literally only serves to make life easier for worlds that go on longer than 1000 days. True, even someone like me who just avoid tentapillar all together if i can telepoof to fuel weaver if in range of the arena. the idea building a bridge to fight fw is very nice. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159154-stone-bridges-in-caves/#findComment-1741978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larael Posted August 23, 2024 Share Posted August 23, 2024 11 minutes ago, chirsg said: so your straight line to AG is completely and utterly moot in every single definition of the term. Yes and no, bridges are supposed to be built in 2 ways (vertical and horizontal like Winona vine bridge) so a straight line is like the only way the bridge can be build at least from my perspective. True, it nulifyes the idea of the mace to AG idk if is intended but is true. 15 minutes ago, chirsg said: A bridge to fuelweaver literally only serves to make life easier for worlds that go on longer than 1000 days Yes I agree with this. But I don't think an infinite bridge is the solution. Don't get me wrong (and sorry for being sarcastic and the start) but I like the idea of the stone bridge maybe 5 tiles of range and more durable but infinite is a big no for me cus breaks a lot of aspects of the game itself, it doesn't means is bad in fact the idea is really good but gives no balance in the game overall Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159154-stone-bridges-in-caves/#findComment-1741981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirsg Posted August 23, 2024 Author Share Posted August 23, 2024 Just now, Larael said: infinite bridge is the solution This is the only thing we can agree on. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159154-stone-bridges-in-caves/#findComment-1741982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike23Ua Posted August 23, 2024 Share Posted August 23, 2024 Stone bridges would still take damage and need repairs though, just like the ones in real life *Shrugs* Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159154-stone-bridges-in-caves/#findComment-1741983 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty_Mentos Posted August 23, 2024 Share Posted August 23, 2024 give this man a true Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159154-stone-bridges-in-caves/#findComment-1742154 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bumber64 Posted August 23, 2024 Share Posted August 23, 2024 How far down do the bridge pillars go, though? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159154-stone-bridges-in-caves/#findComment-1742165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirsg Posted August 23, 2024 Author Share Posted August 23, 2024 3 hours ago, Bumber64 said: How far down do the bridge pillars go, though? To the bottom. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159154-stone-bridges-in-caves/#findComment-1742314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovens Posted August 23, 2024 Share Posted August 23, 2024 It would be great to have a non-breakable and more expensive alternative to the current cave bridge implementation, similar to how we have stone and dreadstone pillars. If it's not possible then at least pillars should protect bridges as they do for other structures. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159154-stone-bridges-in-caves/#findComment-1742457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pep61 Posted August 23, 2024 Share Posted August 23, 2024 i'd agree with the fragile bridges if we could get an upgraded version of them , made out of stone , and ISTG if someone suggests making them out of dreadstone lmfao and maybe making them consistent with turfs , where each craft yields 4 of them. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159154-stone-bridges-in-caves/#findComment-1742515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouKnowWho Posted August 23, 2024 Share Posted August 23, 2024 I’m not sure about the insistence on stone here. I think the wooden bridges are much more fitting for a mineshaft Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159154-stone-bridges-in-caves/#findComment-1742587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirsg Posted August 23, 2024 Author Share Posted August 23, 2024 37 minutes ago, YouKnowWho said: I’m not sure about the insistence on stone here. I think the wooden bridges are much more fitting for a mineshaft Mineshaft can F right off. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159154-stone-bridges-in-caves/#findComment-1742620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike23Ua Posted August 23, 2024 Share Posted August 23, 2024 3 minutes ago, chirsg said: Mineshaft can F right off. How many times have we seen even stone bridges crumble in action movies and start to fall apart though? What your wanting is something that never takes damage… EVER. Also I highly disagree with being able to just build a bridge out as far as you want with no limitations. And I could draw a Diagram that EASILY explains why.. in fact I’ll post it here in a few minutes. As you can see here.. you would be able to build bridges that likely won’t have ANY enemies that can spawn on them, you can “skip” biomes and just branch to the next one of interest to you.. I get it, you enjoyed your void walking… but, you should’ve known that cutting out 90% of the games Map navigational challenges would be considered as “Cheating” Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159154-stone-bridges-in-caves/#findComment-1742624 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovens Posted August 23, 2024 Share Posted August 23, 2024 24 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said: How many times have we seen even stone bridges crumble in action movies and start to fall apart though? What your wanting is something that never takes damage… EVER. Also I highly disagree with being able to just build a bridge out as far as you want with no limitations. And I could draw a Diagram that EASILY explains why.. in fact I’ll post it here in a few minutes. As you can see here.. you would be able to build bridges that likely won’t have ANY enemies that can spawn on them, you can “skip” biomes and just branch to the next one of interest to you.. I get it, you enjoyed your void walking… but, you should’ve known that cutting out 90% of the games Map navigational challenges would be considered as “Cheating” Your diagram makes no sense. Who will ever want to connect ends of biomes with no points of interest in them like that? The main points of interest in the caves are Ruins, Atrium, Lunar Grotto, Muddy biome and Toadstool arenas. On your average map everything apart from Atrium and a couple of Toadstool spawners will already be connected through the Muddy biome with shorter land bridges that are part of the cave generation. Getting to most biomes is way faster if you go through the muddy biome (which surprise surprise also almost never has any enemies). Also beefalo will get you past any enemies anyway without any artificial bridges - just try going through the wilds on top of one and you'll easily outrun all shadow creatures and splumonkeys, not even mentioning depth worms and slurpers. Now Atrium is the real deal. I understand that from devs' perspective and game design they think it shouldn't be possible to build a bridge to it. I agree but to some extent. It shouldn't be possible before beating FW for the first time. This way you still get to experience the whole big tentacle quest and Atrium walk. A good solution would be to only introduce the permanent bridge after beating FW. Maybe it could be a blueprint that drops from Ink Blights or new shadow rift enemies. Maybe it will require shadow rift materials, doesn't matter. It would be a fair endgame item, a good reward for people who already faced the final boss of the game. FW is currently a lot harder to repeatedly fight compared to CC. With CC you can build a bridge to Lunar, you can clear all the enemies on Lunar on your way to CC arena and have unlimited room for fighting CC, CC has no cooldown so you can fight it right away after you defeated one, and you don't need to defeat another4 bosses, some of which are tied to a certain event (AG and then Shadow Pieces on a new moon night) to allow another re-fight. So making it one step easier to repeatedly kill FW by allowing to bridge to it for subsequent fights would be very much appreciated. Here's another thought: Klei plan to remove void walking but they do not address the reason why people void walk too much in the first place. No one bothers void walking a 3 tile gap between sunken forest parts of the caves or mushroom forests. People void walked to the Atruim because it's very time consuming to find it the legit way. You can easily spend up to two hours mapping out the caves and fighting every single tentacle just to find out that the very last one that led to Atruim was in a god forgotten bunnymen village (why?) on the other side of the map, in the last corner that you decided to check. It's not challenging, it's just plain boring. If I have two hours to play with my friends I'd rather spend these two hours fighting an actual boss rather just blindly looking for a path to it. Also: lazy explorer exists. And in a lot of maps you can already teleport straight to the Atrium. Then why not allow to bridge to it as well? Or at least to the entrance part. The Atrium itself is a great challenge and a good preparation for the endgame boss fight. It tests your ability to manage your sanity, navigate tight spaces, and fight enemies at the same time. But searching for the Atrium entrance does nothing for it. You don't get tested for skills you'll need for the fight, you just span time gambling with tentacle portals, hoping you found the right one. People have requested it here many times already, and I think it would be fair to get this change as a compromise for losing the void walk exploit: it should be easier to find the tentacle that opens a portal to Atrium. There were multiple suggestions already: make thulesite medalion or ancient key point towards its location, make it always spawn in a certain biome (maybe even inside the wilds or the ruins, to increase the challenge of fighting it - but not the time spent searching for it), make it be different color/have thulesite embedded into it etc. There are plenty of options which would make the playerbase not miss the void walk exploit. Let's face it, nobody really liked doing it. They just did it to save time because the alternative was too boring and time consuming. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159154-stone-bridges-in-caves/#findComment-1742666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike23Ua Posted August 23, 2024 Share Posted August 23, 2024 Beefalo are a relatively new thing you can take into caves, and none of the cave mobs or content was ever adjusted to account for the player being able to use them. Prior to YoTB Beefalo COULDNT even enter the caves shard, and Klei hasn’t made any major adjustments to caves after allowing them to enter either. I’m not drawing a diagram to go to the most important points on the map, I’m drawing a diagram that shows you CAN skip the map entirely if the player could build bridges of infinity lengths. Klei knew this though… and that’s why docks can’t be built over certain types of waters. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159154-stone-bridges-in-caves/#findComment-1742676 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SapoLover Posted August 23, 2024 Share Posted August 23, 2024 20 hours ago, chirsg said: Logically justifiable because they're supported by pillars We know there's a ceiling, but we don't know if there's a bottom, so it should be more like this: Poly Bridge, my dear. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/159154-stone-bridges-in-caves/#findComment-1742713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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