I find no purpose in winter hat and here's how i'd fix it

[Sacco]

Hi, as you probably expect from the title, i find literally NO purpose in the winter hat.

Why should you use it in winter over beefalo hat, despite being called WINTER hat?

Before talking about possible fixes, let's talk about the benefits the winter hat has on the beefalo hat:

- +1.33 sanity gained per minute (the beefalo hat doesn't give sanity)

-You don't have to kill a beefalo (i don't find it an advantage, but anyway)

So... the beefalo hat gives you 240 insulation (120 more than the winter hat) and gives you "immunity" to beefalo in heat.

What i'd change about the winter hat to make it viable?

-Increase insulation to 240

-Increase durability to 15 days (so it lasts an entire Winter)

Now it could be a bit contriversial but i'd like to change the beefalo hat

-Reduce insulation to 120 

-If you feed or brush a beefalo while wearing the beefalo hat they will have +20% efficiency

And to finish everything a small change to the recipe of the winter hat:

-Add a bunny puff to the crafting recipe (you know, the puffy thing on top of the hat)

That's everything, feel free to express your opinion (;

 

[ChintzyGnat]

Generally this item doesn't need a change as a new player will look twords this first than a beefalo hat if they are scared of kiting such a large mob (also a herd mob). Spiders are much easier to kill and rabbits are just a waste. Also the sanity does add up over time.

For veterans it's the same with any other item that helps players get to the veteran level, you just won't use it.

[Wormboi]

the winter hat is essayist to mass produce what you talking about?

[GimplyGoose]

The winter hat has better looking skins in my opinion. I typically won't use insulation clothing and opt for using a thermal stone only instead. I avoid taming beefalo in the spring, so the beefalo heat neutralization perk of the beefalo hat rarely comes up for me.

I'm not certain any changes to either the beefalo hat or winter hat would improve the game.

[Sacco]

2 minutes ago, Wormboi said:

the winter hat is essayist to mass produce what you talking about?

the thing i'm trying to say is that, atleast statwise, winter hat straight up sucks compared to the beefalo hat, and it doesn't make any sense. The winter hat should be the better than beefalo hat against Winter.

2 minutes ago, GimplyGoose said:

The winter hat has better looking skins in my opinion. I typically won't use insulation clothing and opt for using a thermal stone only instead. I avoid taming beefalo in the spring, so the beefalo heat neutralization perk of the beefalo hat rarely comes up for me.

I'm not certain any changes to either the beefalo hat or winter hat would improve the game.

i think the winter hat has better skins too!

i, infact, suggested some changes to make it better, so you look cool and at the same time you are protevted by Winter too!

Beefalo hat, with my changes, now has and interesting "beefalo interaction" if i can call that this way.

[Auth]

The winter hat is fine. It's very easy to farm the materials for, and can be done so reliably, which is great for large servers. If everyone on a big server immediately jumps for the beefalo hat, then there's not going to be any beefalo left. That's why it currently exists, to be that mass-produced middle-of-the-line item.

Killing a beefalo is hard for a new player. Beefalo have good damage, a lot of health, but mainly, herd mentality. It takes a little bit of game knowledge to understand that and how to counter it, which is why the beefalo hat is better, it's a reward. But because of that, there -needs- to be simpler items for players to at least be able to scrape by until then.

It's a cheap, basic piece of weather protection. It doesn't need fantastic insulation nor does it need better durability. It's just, quite simply, already good enough and fills its role well for new players. It being kind of average and easily outclassed is an intentional design.

It's also called the "Winter Hat" to make it as painfully obvious as possible for new players that it's a hat... that helps in winter. Short of having a popup yell "HEY KID! PUT ON SOME INSULATION!" it's about as natural as you can have something get hinted at.

Adding a bunny puff would make it unobtainable for caveless worlds. And even then, bunnymen are also not exactly a cakewalk for new players just trying to survive for the first time.

[arubaro]

Winter hat is so new players have a cloth option that doesnt involve fighting mobs with herd mentality

[Sacco]

13 minutes ago, Auth said:

The winter hat is fine. It's very easy to farm the materials for, and can be done so reliably, which is great for large servers. If everyone on a big server immediately jumps for the beefalo hat, then there's not going to be any beefalo left. That's why it currently exists, to be that mass-produced middle-of-the-line item.

Killing a beefalo is hard for a new player. Beefalo have good damage, a lot of health, but mainly, herd mentality. It takes a little bit of game knowledge to understand that and how to counter it, which is why the beefalo hat is better, it's a reward. But because of that, there -needs- to be simpler items for players to at least be able to scrape by until then.

It's a cheap, basic piece of weather protection. It doesn't need fantastic insulation nor does it need better durability. It's just, quite simply, already good enough and fills its role well for new players. It being kind of average and easily outclassed is an intentional design.

It's also called the "Winter Hat" to make it as painfully obvious as possible for new players that it's a hat... that helps in winter. Short of having a popup yell "HEY KID! PUT ON SOME INSULATION!" it's about as natural as you can have something get hinted at.

Adding a bunny puff would make it unobtainable for caveless worlds. And even then, bunnymen are also not exactly a cakewalk for new players just trying to survive for the first time.

ok fair point but... so what's even the point of the cat cap?

it's neither easier or harder to make than winter hat and it's way worse, why not giving it 120 insulation? making it the beginner friendly hat for winter.

You are right about the name thing tho.

12 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Winter hat is so new players have a cloth option that doesnt involve fighting mobs with herd mentality

as i answered to another comment, yeah you are right, but if so, why the cat cap exist?

[Mike23Ua]

Winter hat has a cute lime green Santa hat skin, that’s all it ever needed to make it relevant.

But since Thermal Stones exist, it’s really just for looks and not really any survival purpose. Outside of maybe the few times you may not have Thermal Stone.

[Mysterious box]

7 minutes ago, Sacco said:

ok fair point but... so what's even the point of the cat cap?

Fashion at least that's what people I know use it for... just because we're freezing to death in the wilderness it's no excuse to unfashionible.

[Sacco]

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Winter hat has a cute lime green Santa hat skin, that’s all it ever needed to make it relevant.

But since Thermal Stones exist, it’s really just for looks and not really any survival purpose. Outside of maybe the few times you may not have Thermal Stone.

i think i'm the only one who notices a difference with clothes on or off even when equipping a thermal stone.

anyway, i think giving atleast a niche to every item is very important, there are currently too many things which have 0 uses.

[chirsg]

12 minutes ago, Sacco said:

ok fair point but... so what's even the point of the cat cap?

 

The whole entire thread should have been about this over the winter hat. Multiple people have answered and justified the role of the winter hat. The cat cap however is a junk item. 

[Wormboi]

Just now, chirsg said:

The whole entire thread should have been about this over the winter hat. Multiple people have answered and justified the role of the winter hat. The cat cap however is a junk item. 

I see the cat cap as the same way as the bunny earmuffs where you only use it as a temporary thing before you any real insulation.

[Sacco]

3 minutes ago, chirsg said:

The whole entire thread should have been about this over the winter hat. Multiple people have answered and justified the role of the winter hat. The cat cap however is a junk item. 

yes, maybe i should have said it...

i think the original devs didn't think much about it honestly, maybe a stupid thing about the cat cap which could be added is that it reduces freezing damage, you know, it covers your ears pretty well, but that's just a random thought.

1 minute ago, Wormboi said:

I see the cat cap as the same way as the bunny earmuffs where you only use it as a temporary thing before you any real insulation.

but the problem with that hat is that it isn't easier to acquire than Winter hat.

[Maxil20]

3 minutes ago, chirsg said:

The cat cap however is a junk item. 

I’ve actually used the cat cap quite a bit when I was Webber and it got a buff to only need 1 cat tail compared to 4. I basically view it as a cheaper top hat/discount tam (heck, it’s exactly half of a tam). It’s not going to be an insane boon, but a winter top hat goes a pretty long way in winter where 2/3rds of the day is dusk/night and especially as Webber who struggles with staying sane.

I wouldn’t be opposed to it getting a minor buff, but I think it’s spot is alright for now.

[chirsg]

3 minutes ago, Wormboi said:

I see the cat cap as the same way as the bunny earmuffs where you only use it as a temporary thing before you any real insulation.

I couldn't disagree more. Before catcoon dens were made 'renewable' they have always been 60 insulation. For such an item where by nature, it's such a scarce resource, having it be such an underperforming craft in the face of it's intrinsic flaw shouldn't have been treated as a temporary thing, as you so put.

It seems like a 'noob trap'.

Something that serves as a tool to put a new player in the state of a vicious cycle of warm and cold over and over. 

It's a stupid item only carried by how it looks. 

[arubaro]

22 minutes ago, Sacco said:

as i answered to another comment, yeah you are right, but if so, why the cat cap exist?

Iirc it gives more sanity and catcoons were added in RoG while the winter hat was since winter existed

Maybe klei just wanted to give variety of options or because it looks cool and funny

[Mike23Ua]

16 minutes ago, Sacco said:

i think i'm the only one who notices a difference with clothes on or off even when equipping a thermal stone.

anyway, i think giving atleast a niche to every item is very important, there are currently too many things which have 0 uses.

The games product description says we can craft items to survive “our way” it never said anything about figuring out what the most efficient item was and surviving by only that way.

And I think that’s what a lot of players don’t understand when it comes to dst and it’s craftable items, structures etc..

let me use an example here: For some players, maybe it is super easy to catch rabbits & live indefinitely off stacks of Bunny Earmuffs, sure they may be one of the worst items in the game you can use… if the player can’t fight spiders- OR if world Gen gave them the middle finger and they can’t FIND any spiders, then Rabbit earmuffs are better than nothing.

Same with Winter Hats Vs Beefalo Hats, the only thing I would really change is it’s crafting recipe… 

If a player is unable to obtain Beefalo hat due to for example: Maybe world extinction of Beefalos, then they’ll ALSO be Unable to craft Winter hat cause it also needs Beefalo Wool too.

If Klei is looking for suggestions for Winter Hat- I say add “Fur” as loot for both Catcoons And Otter, and let that replace the Beefalo Wool in its crafting recipe.

[chirsg]

2 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

I’ve actually used the cat cap quite a bit when I was Webber and it got a buff to only need 1 cat tail compared to 4. I basically view it as a cheaper top hat/discount tam (heck, it’s exactly half of a tam). It’s not going to be an insane boon, but a winter top hat goes a pretty long way in winter where 2/3rds of the day is dusk/night and especially as Webber who struggles with staying sane.

I wouldn’t be opposed to it getting a minor buff, but I think it’s spot is alright for now.

As webber, you can literally sleep in a level 3 den. The alternative to the cat cap is just tuned to a better place.

After night falls, you can turn the insurmountable amounts of food into health and sanity. You can start off every single day with the 3 stats maxed out, cat cap be damned. 

[Ridley]

I have an appreciation for the cheap winter gear because its the only feasible way to get a group of new players prepared for winter. The cat cap really surprised me once because we weren't all ready for winter but they had been killing the cats all autumn for food while I was away. Turns out we were up to our whiskers in cat tails.

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, Sacco said:

the thing i'm trying to say is that, atleast statwise, winter hat straight up sucks compared to the beefalo hat, and it doesn't make any sense. The winter hat should be the better than beefalo hat against Winter.

No it shouldnt the beefalo hat is more expensive.

 

You can much easier make winter hats for everyone in the server.

Though Winter gear is mid unless you use body armour.

[gaymime]

5 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Fashion at least that's what people I know use it for... just because we're freezing to death in the wilderness it's no excuse to unfashionible.

wow, called me out with a quickness

[AliceShiki]

When playing with a group of like, 3 players, we often ended up not finding any big Beefalo herd, so some people had to make do with Winter Hats because there weren't enough Beefalo materials for everyone.

Sometimes we did get the large enough herds though, but those occasions felt rarer.

So... Yeah, Winter Hats are nice for bigger groups.

Regarding stuff like Rabbits Earmuffs and the other low-tier items though... They kinda suck, and they aren't very useful... Main thing I can think of that they can do is like...

You're playing for the first time, you dunno winter exists, then suddenly you're dying from cold, so you go near a fire to get warmer... You figure there must be some way to help yourself, so you go to crafting menu and click on that Winter Tab and find some item you already have the materials for and... Well, you got some insulation, which is better than nothing.

That's the only use case scenario I can think of for stuff like Rabbit Earmuffs. They just aren't very useful... But Winter Hat is a solid option for worlds without many Beefalos when not playing solo.

[Echsrick]

cat cap is CLEARLY the better option.....ok but can we talk why beefalo hat is scince locked but winter hat alchemy locket? like.....huh?

[Frosty_Mentos]

Tbh most of the early singleplayer items and mechanics are extremely outdated for that they were made planned for what was being planned next for the updates.

Winter hat is pretty nice but but catcap is cheaper.

All these old items and concepts need their own rework and redesign, but they still do their job as intended. Not as exciting as for rn but they exist alright.