Feeling tired about ancient fuelweaver

[grm9]

19 hours ago, Waywarbler said:

I'm very curious what your ideal version of Celestial Champion is. I wouldn't mind it being made a bit harder, and I'm wondering what you might have in mind for making it closer to Fuelweaver's level of complexity

i'm currently working on a mod for that although no clue about anything specific, i've got some attacks but i still need to figure out how to make them work with each other and add something that you'd need to manage along with the boss like unseen hands and woven shadows requiring you to deal with them when FW's walking to you, being in attack state near you or using an ability

stuff that i've got done:

chop and black holes

charged moon glass

spin (ignore that gestalts don't increase grogginess and some of them aren't white, did that for testing, the point of this's to kill all 4 blue things before they fly into CC and heal it)

aerial view of it

[arubaro]

Just now, Evelo said:

The player is free to fight one before the other, but not required to

Sure the player is free but wouldnt be a player be free of building a giant base during summer or exploring the caves during winter? Players are free to do those thing but is a new player capable of doing them? No, they will be free once they are good enough the same way someone will be free of doing fw before CC or before moose goose once they practise enough 

One thing is being free of doing something and other thing is being good enough to be free. People want the freedom and the loot without the required steps

Lately in the society we are giving prizes and making everybody win without being winners

Back in my day, videogames didnt even have save points or were limited by passwords you wont by beating the levels, now videogames even advice you to save the game because you might be beaten

People want gems, thulecite, the best armor in the game, sanity inmmunity, a way to controll renimated skeletons, rift content, etc but without being good at the game

This brings me to the scary point of, if klei listen to these players what kind of mediocre rift content we will receive? The the event that triggers it gets nerfed we cant expect actual hard content because the "confidence furry & co" will cry to nerf that hardmode content

[NPCMaxwell]

2 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Sure the player is free but wouldnt be a player be free of building a giant base during summer or exploring the caves during winter? Players are free to do those thing but is a new player capable of doing them? No, they will be free once they are good enough the same way someone will be free of doing fw before CC or before moose goose once they practise enough 

One thing is being free of doing something and other thing is being good enough to be free. People want the freedom and the loot without the required steps

Lately in the society we are giving prizes and making everybody win without being winners

Back in my day, videogames didnt even have save points or were limited by passwords you wont by beating the levels, now videogames even advice you to save the game because you might be beaten

People want gems, thulecite, the best armor in the game, sanity inmmunity, a way to controll renimated skeletons, rift content, etc but without being good at the game

This brings me to the scary point of, if klei listen to these players what kind of mediocre rift content we will receive? The the event that triggers it gets nerfed we cant expect actual hard content because the "confidence furry & co" will cry to nerf that hardmode content

*cough* I am one of those guys who loves to struggle with content that is too hard for me to handle. And actually I wouldn't want this content to be nerved. So just saying: We people who AKNOWLEDGE we are bad at this game exist but who still enable rift content from day 1 and play with more then standard number of evil spawners, just for the sake of having fun

But I get where you are coming from. It would just be very saaaad for players like me who seem to be unable to "get good" by regular dst-playing fanbase standards to have to rely on mods to make the game more deadly. (although I of course already use mods that make the game more evil, so at the end, if a mod for it was my only way to make my characters suffer, I would probably get it anyway.)

Just wrote this so you can hopefully be a bit relieved that not all of us "bad" players want to have evil content AND want the evil content to be nerfed at the same time. Actually the world making me die all the time also in ways differnt from the singleplayer  DS/ROG/SW/HL is what I /like/ about DST or else I would probably not play it at all.

[Reiko24]

18 minutes ago, Evelo said:

Ah alright. So it is a strategy but at least in my eyes (this may be some fallacy idk), Klei created Fuelweaver and Celestial Champion as opposites. The player is free to fight one before the other, but not required to. While by numerous examples, fuelweaver is clearly capable of being defeated without any CC or Post CC loot, it may be encouraged to do so as certain characters gain bonuses only after AFW or CC is defeated. (Which I have my own opinions about but those are not relevant to this topic). Wormwood for example has bonuses with Brightshade Gear so it makes sense for Wormwood players to focus on CC first. Meanwhile Winona can get bonuses with Pure Horror which, while attainable prior to AFW being defeated, it is readily available post AFW (and unlocking the rifts). As such winonas are encouraged (if they take the path) to fight AFW first.

So the reason why I feel this isn't a valid argument is because if a player struggling with one endgame boss but not the other unless they specifically have to beat one before the other when they are meant to be comparable in terms of difficulty. CC is really easy and can be done with 6 darkswords and a little bit of healing and armor as any character with minimal strategy. AFW meanwhile has a smaller arena, and requires AoE or precice kiting which is fine, but it is just unfriendly to less skilled or disabled gamers. CC could definitely use a difficulty bump, because the hardest thing about CC is Crab King and Pearl's island which is kind of odd. Just my opinion of course. I am sure the argument is totally valid but I am just like "meh". To each their own yknow?

It is definitely kinda weird that CC and AFW aren't on the same level of strength.

 

But it opens a strategy for people that aren't as good at the game at beating AFW.

If you wanna beat AFW without Brightshade gear, then you need more skill. I don't think we should nerf AFW. There is both skill expression and easy mode. You can choose both ways.

[Riddla]

49 minutes ago, grm9 said:

i'm currently working on a mod for that although no clue about anything specific, i've got some attacks but i still need to figure out how to make them work with each other and add something that you'd need to manage along with the boss like FW still attacking you when you're dealing with unseen hands and woven shadows

Those attacks are pretty damn cool, I really like them so far.

My minor nitpick is that Charged Moon Glass and Spin attacks have faaar too many objects/entities, it gets cluttery and can lag the game

[Uedo]

56 minutes ago, grm9 said:

i'm currently working on a mod for that although no clue about anything specific, i've got some attacks but i still need to figure out how to make them work with each other and add something that you'd need to manage along with the boss like FW still attacking you when you're dealing with unseen hands and woven shadows

stuff that i've got done:

chop and black holes

 

charged moon glass

 

spin (ignore that gestalts don't increase grogginess and some of them aren't white, did that for testing, the point of this's to kill all 4 blue things before they fly into CC and heal it)

 

aerial view of it

 

I really like this @grm9! 

I especially like the charged moonglass attack, could even workout to be a way to farm charged glass without resetting CC - just leave phase 2 alive instead at lunar! Colour would be hard to see though

[gaymime]

1 hour ago, Evelo said:

Ah alright. So it is a strategy but at least in my eyes (this may be some fallacy idk), Klei created Fuelweaver and Celestial Champion as opposites. The player is free to fight one before the other, but not required to. While by numerous examples, fuelweaver is clearly capable of being defeated without any CC or Post CC loot, it may be encouraged to do so as certain characters gain bonuses only after AFW or CC is defeated. (Which I have my own opinions about but those are not relevant to this topic). Wormwood for example has bonuses with Brightshade Gear so it makes sense for Wormwood players to focus on CC first. Meanwhile Winona can get bonuses with Pure Horror which, while attainable prior to AFW being defeated, it is readily available post AFW (and unlocking the rifts). As such winonas are encouraged (if they take the path) to fight AFW first.

So the reason why I feel this isn't a valid argument is because if a player struggling with one endgame boss but not the other unless they specifically have to beat one before the other when they are meant to be comparable in terms of difficulty. CC is really easy and can be done with 6 darkswords and a little bit of healing and armor as any character with minimal strategy. AFW meanwhile has a smaller arena, and requires AoE or precice kiting which is fine, but it is just unfriendly to less skilled or disabled gamers. CC could definitely use a difficulty bump, because the hardest thing about CC is Crab King and Pearl's island which is kind of odd. Just my opinion of course. I am sure the argument is totally valid but I am just like "meh". To each their own yknow?

you know, i was never on the "cc should be harder" bandwagon, honestly i am still not but you have actually made a pretty good point here about the arena being a contributing factor to how the bosses play and how that would possibly affect disabled players. i am going to have to mull over this for a while. thankyou for the extra little bit of insight

[chirsg]

should have kept the lureplant cheese

[Wormboi]

1 hour ago, chirsg said:

should have kept the lureplant cheese

Honestly yeah, deleting the lure plant cheese (and any other cheese method that use a building to block the boss) has just open the flood gates to FW threads

[Theukon-dos]

10 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

 I agree with most of what you're saying. I wouldn't call Celestial Champion extremely easy - it's definitely harder than Dragonfly, for example. But, it is true that the post-rifts content, which most players find challenging, is substantially less difficult than Fuelweaver. Some way to make Fuelweaver less painful to deal with for the majority of players - or, alternatively, that being the default, and Klei adding a way to increase his difficulty back to what it is now - would be a perfectly reasonable compromise, as you've said with your comment about the moonlight shackle idea. Honestly, something like that being part of Fuelweaver's boss prep would help to further equalize him as a counterpart to Celestial Champion, since the lunar questline is far longer than the shadow one right now.

Also, for clarity's sake, I'm not calling people who just like Fuelweaver as-is insecure. I'm calling people whose only response to criticism of the boss is to tell people to "git gud", whether it's that sentiment spread out over more words or not, insecure. Their condescending attitude towards people whose arguments they refuse to consider valid has to stem from something, after all.

For someone complaining about people who disagree with them being "insecure", you sure do seem to relish in putting those people down at every opportunity whenever the topic comes up. Sure sounds like the pot calling the kettle black if you ask me.

 

As for the topic at hand, all I can really say is just don't worry about it. Ancient Fuelweaver may be to hard for you, but you've got nothing to loose in admitting defeat. No pride to be lost, no blood spilled. And if you want shadow rift content, you can just enable them in the world setting so you have something to play with.

 

Be proud that you managed to reach the AFW at all. That's far more than many players can say they've accomplished. And who knows? Give it a few more months, and perhaps you'll have honed yourself enough to finally give the devil it's due.

[DegenerateFurry]

1 hour ago, Theukon-dos said:

For someone complaining about people who disagree with them being "insecure", you sure do seem to relish in putting those people down at every opportunity whenever the topic comes up. Sure sounds like the pot calling the kettle black if you ask me.

A bit, yeah, but that's the result of genuinely trying to reason with these people or find a compromise with them, only to get insulted and told to "git gud" time and time again without them ever actually conceding that it could use some adjustment or alternate mode, and without them even acknowledging that what I'm saying has any merit. They don't treat me with respect and never did, so I see no reason that I should grant them that civility - I will instead call them out whenever it's relevant to do so.
I will also point out that when someone who likes Fuelweaver as-is said earlier in this thread that they get where people are coming from and would accept a compromise like the Moonlight Shackle idea (which'd be an optional nerf people could grind to be able to use, if you're not familiar), I didn't have a problem with that person.

The "git gud" crowd ruin every potentially fruitful discussion about bosses in this game with their elitist drivel, so why shouldn't I point out that they're out-of-touch, condescending, and think far too highly of themselves just for having practiced a single boss fight in a game for hours on end? It's not just me they do this with, either - Gashzer had a wonderful idea for a compromise (the Moonlight Shackle) and they all spewed their idiotic hatred at him for it like they do with anyone else who suggests making Fuelweaver more accessible to more players.

1 hour ago, Theukon-dos said:

As for the topic at hand, all I can really say is just don't worry about it. Ancient Fuelweaver may be to hard for you, but you've got nothing to loose in admitting defeat. No pride to be lost, no blood spilled. And if you want shadow rift content, you can just enable them in the world setting so you have something to play with.

Be proud that you managed to reach the AFW at all. That's far more than many players can say they've accomplished. And who knows? Give it a few more months, and perhaps you'll have honed yourself enough to finally give the devil it's due.

Oh, I've beaten Fuelweaver numerous times, solo and in multiplayer, and that does include without using any cheese method or mods. I just utterly loathe doing it and feel like it's a chore, and I'll typically avoid doing it without cheesing it/without other players helping if possible. DST is my favorite game, but Fuelweaver is the one part of it that makes me wish I was doing anything else whenever I reach the point where I need to kill him. I'm speaking from experience here: learning how to beat Fuelweaver doesn't make him suck less if you don't have a thing for inventory management and dumping resources. 

[Cheggf]

Don't Starve is the only game where "I'm bad at the game, and that's a problem with the game" is a common complaint. If you aren't good enough to beat the boss do things to make it easier like getting minions, or just don't fight him until you're good enough to fight him. 

[DegenerateFurry]

25 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Don't Starve is the only game where "I'm bad at the game, and that's a problem with the game" is a common complaint. If you aren't good enough to beat the boss do things to make it easier like getting minions, or just don't fight him until you're good enough to fight him. 

Funny joke, dude.

To give a counter-example: I play Deep Rock Galactic. I recall that when the Glyphid Stingtail was added to that game, a lot of people found it far too difficult of an enemy to deal with. A bunch of people complained about it, so the devs nerfed it to make it easier to kill because it was way too tanky and didn't have enough weaknesses for people to exploit. 

This is standard practice in game development: something gets added, it might be too powerful or too weak, and the devs adjust it after they get feedback. Why do they do this? I'll tell you: so that the game's as fun as it can be for as many people as possible. It's a really easy concept to understand. 

If you stopped using the toxic mindset of "forum person say thing too hard, that mean they STINKY", you'd probably be able to get that.

[cropo]

Honestly don't even bother trying to tell someone you beat fuelweaver.

The same groups do the same song and dance every time, it basically goes something like this:

"I think Fuelweaver has an issue"
"Just do this, or that, go on the other spectrum of the game to retrieve and item and you can beat him."
"I've beaten him, I have a problem with his design"
"Oh so you can't beat him and you just want to make him easier ffs I guess everyone wants everything handed to them on a silver platter these days, I'm a modern-day philosopher so I'm qualified to make this observation on society through the lens of the Don't Starve forums".

"Listen to me, I beat him. The issue isn't that he is "impossible" to beat because he's not, he just isn't fun for x reason"

"Wow, Don't Starve truly is the only game where some smurf  can just role up and expect the game to cater to them because they can't kill a simple boss."

They are having an entirely different discussion from you, so long as something is "hard" then it doesn't matter what the merits or context of that difficulty is. Any criticism on it is an admission that you're a poopy baby at Don't Starve and are not on their competitive seasonal level.

It's one thing to disagree on whether or not a mechanic is fun or not. There's a lot of discussion to be made on Fuel Weaver from many angles, but it simply will never happen. You could literally shout into a megaphone, directly into their ear, and show them video proof of you killing Fuelweaver and they would still accuse you of being unable to beat him, and just wanting to make a boss "easy".

It is impossible to have any discussion with this kind of mindset, you simply cannot do it, give up.

[DegenerateFurry]

25 minutes ago, cropo said:

Honestly don't even bother trying to tell someone you beat fuelweaver.

The same groups do the same song and dance every time, it basically goes something like this:

"I think Fuelweaver has an issue"
"Just do this, or that, go on the other spectrum of the game to retrieve and item and you can beat him."
"I've beaten him, I have a problem with his design"
"Oh so you can't beat him and you just want to make him easier ffs I guess everyone wants everything handed to them on a silver platter these days, I'm a modern-day philosopher so I'm qualified to make this observation on society through the lens of the Don't Starve forums".

"Listen to me, I beat him. The issue isn't that he is "impossible" to beat because he's not, he just isn't fun for x reason"

"Wow, Don't Starve truly is the only game where some smurf  can just role up and expect the game to cater to them because they can't kill a simple boss."

They are having an entirely different discussion from you, so long as something is "hard" then it doesn't matter what the merits or context of that difficulty is. Any criticism on it is an admission that you're a poopy baby at Don't Starve and are not on their competitive seasonal level.

It's one thing to disagree on whether or not a mechanic is fun or not. There's a lot of discussion to be made on Fuel Weaver from many angles, but it simply will never happen. You could literally shout into a megaphone, directly into their ear, and show them video proof of you killing Fuelweaver and they would still accuse you of being unable to beat him, and just wanting to make a boss "easy".

It is impossible to have any discussion with this kind of mindset, you simply cannot do it, give up.

You said it, brother. 

[cropo]

It is seriously baffling. It absolutely boggles the hell out of my mind, when Klei added rock-riftquakes underground, the lunar rain, etc. They were completely dodging the arguments made against them, it was hard to tell if they were doing it on purpose out of pure spite and bad faith. 

Like, I think Fuelweavers moveset is fine myself so I unfortunately disagree with any sort of direct nerf on Fuelweaver, but people are blatantly and I strongly suspect purposefully misrepresenting the "problem" and the "issue" people are bringing up with Fuelweaver.


These people are on such a level that they can steamroll 10-years worth of content in a single season; they play so meticulous and robotically that the game might as well be scripted at that point. They are arguing that people are whining that they should be catered to, but I think they are the ones asking for unreasonable levels of catering; do we really want the game to be balanced around people who can literally zerg-rush through every boss before the game even hits summer? Is that the standard we want to balance the game on? People who are able to sift through their inventory with a proficiency that would make AI blush?  People who are so insanely rehearsed in every piece of content the game has to offer, that even the slightest improvement or change to design to bring it up to modern polish would cripple their ability to have any sort of challenge because they are so good that they can beat it with their eyes closed?

I don't think the game should be catered to that crowd, personally. A product of that nature would be a complete nightmare to play.

[Reiko24]

14 minutes ago, cropo said:

It is seriously baffling. It absolutely boggles the hell out of my mind, when Klei added rock-riftquakes underground, the lunar rain, etc. They were completely dodging the arguments made against them, it was hard to tell if they were doing it on purpose out of pure spite and bad faith. 

What is the problem with rock-riftquakes and lunar hail?

Rock-riftquakes can be mitigated by using pillars and lunar hail can be mitigated by using the Umbralla.

What is the problem here? Are those problematic game design things that do not have counterplay and are unfun because of it?

 

The same way rain is mitigated by using umbrellas or Eyebrella. Do you want rain removed too?

[cropo]

1 minute ago, Reiko24 said:

What is the problem with rock-riftquakes and lunar hail?

Rock-riftquakes can be mitigated by using pillars and lunar hail can be mitigated by using the Umbralla.

What is the problem here? Are those problematic game design things that do not have counterplay and are unfun because of it?

This isn't a topic to go into length about it, but pillars weren't there at the very start. This was happening in the beta discussion thread.


As for Lunar Hail, it damaged critters. So if a megabaser had critters penned up in their base, it would kill them while not being any actual "challenge" to the player which meant its sole existence was to punish megabasers, and require them to set up 50 ugly Umbrallas throughout their megabase. It was zero difficulty, zero interesting gameplay, all inconvenience. But because it was "inconvenient" it was considered "hard" and because it was considered "hard" anyone who had a problem with it was accused of being a baby who just wants everything handed to them for free and couldn't survive if their mommies didn't put a binky in their mouth every night.

That's very TLDR, the actual arguments for and against this stuff can be read on old beta forum posts.

[Reiko24]

6 minutes ago, cropo said:

This isn't a topic to go into length about it, but pillars weren't there at the very start. This was happening in the beta discussion thread.


As for Lunar Hail, it damaged critters. So if a megabaser had critters penned up in their base, it would kill them while not being any actual "challenge" to the player which meant its sole existence was to punish megabasers, and require them to set up 50 ugly Umbrallas throughout their megabase. It was zero difficulty, zero interesting gameplay, all inconvenience. But because it was "inconvenient" it was considered "hard" and because it was considered "hard" anyone who had a problem with it was accused of being a baby who just wants everything handed to them for free and couldn't survive if their mommies didn't put a binky in their mouth every night.

That's very TLDR, the actual arguments for and against this stuff can be read on old beta forum posts.

I don't remember that. I remember the forum agreeing with each other that pillars are needed and lunar hail needs to not damage critters. Those posts have tons of likes.

 

Btw. You made it seem like the players that want hard stuff are literal gods better than AI, but I want hard stuff. I don't rush anything, I will kill like 1 or 2 bosses before summer hits. I am not skilled enough to rush anything. The content they are adding in comparison to the skill boss rushing requires is much easier.

You seem like you are villainizing the forums for no reason. You make people who want lunar hail or riftquakes seem like devils, and saying that the devils are misinterpreting you guys and saying "git gud". Does that ring a bell? You seem to be doing the same thing but reverse.\

 

 

 

Edit: 

proof. everyone in the replies is agreeing. Not a single person was like "hurr durr! they want to make the game easier! we don't want pillars!!!!"

You seem to have imagined certain traits of forumites and made them absurdly extreme, just to hate someone. Not necessarily on purpose, that is often done unconsciously. But think about it.

[cropo]

1 minute ago, Reiko24 said:

Btw. You made it seem like the players that want hard stuff are literal gods better than AI, but I want hard stuff. I don't rush anything, I will kill like 1 or 2 bosses before summer hits. I am not skilled enough to rush anything. The content they are adding in comparison to the skill boss rushing requires is much easier.

Most of us want "hard stuff", the disagreement comes on what is considered fun. Something may be hard, but is it fun to deal with that difficulty or is it a tedious chore?  That's the core of our disagreement, not just wanting Fuelweaver to die in two hits.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Reiko24 said:

I don't remember that. I remember the forum agreeing with each other that pillars are needed and lunar hail needs to not damage critters. Those posts have tons of likes.

I really don't feel like digging up old beta posts, if anyone on the "riftquakes suck" side of the debate can substantiate my claim that people did indeed want the rocks to stay as-is without pillars because the game "should be hard" please upvote this with a coconut. But I don't want to get into a detailed discussion on this stuff on a Fuelweaver topic especially since people actually got what they wanted here.

 

3 minutes ago, Reiko24 said:

You seem like you are villainizing the forums for no reason. You make people who want lunar hail or riftquakes seem like devils, and saying that the devils are misinterpreting you guys and saying "git gud". Does that ring a bell? You seem to be doing the same thing but reverse.

Yeah I totally am. Absolutely no form of bad-faith has been shown by the "don't nerf this" crowd, you've shown me for what a true demon lord I have been and I have learned the error of my ways and will reflect upon my actions.

[Reiko24]

2 minutes ago, cropo said:

Most of us want "hard stuff", the disagreement comes on what is considered fun. Something may be hard, but is it fun to deal with that difficulty or is it a tedious chore?  That's the core of our disagreement, not just wanting Fuelweaver to die in two hits.

 

 

I really don't feel like digging up old beta posts, if anyone on the "riftquakes suck" side of the debate can substantiate my claim that people did indeed want the rocks to stay as-is without pillars because the game "should be hard" please upvote this with a coconut. But I don't want to get into a detailed discussion on this stuff on a Fuelweaver topic especially since people actually got what they wanted here.

 

Yeah I totally am. Absolutely no form of bad-faith has been shown by the "don't nerf this" crowd, you've shown me for what a true demon lord I have been and I have learned the error of my ways and will reflect upon my actions.

Reply to my edit. There is no likes or anything in the old post because it has been archived. But the post itself HAD 1.2K VIEWS.

 

If that does not convince you, then I guess I won't waste my time arguing. You are too set on hating people and people like that can't be convinced not even in 1 week. It takes a long time and I am not commited to that.

3 minutes ago, cropo said:

Most of us want "hard stuff", the disagreement comes on what is considered fun. Something may be hard, but is it fun to deal with that difficulty or is it a tedious chore?  That's the core of our disagreement, not just wanting Fuelweaver to die in two hits.

The fact that so many people defend the Ancient Fuelweaver does not make you think that he is fun for a lot of people? He is certainly fun for me and I am not a god at the game. He may be unfun for you, but it seems like there is more people liking the boss than not.

[cropo]

4 minutes ago, Reiko24 said:

He may be unfun for you, but it seems like there is more people liking the boss than not.

He is fun for me, I am not on the "nerf AFW" side.

The only problem I have is not with Fuelweaver, but the availability of weather pains. The character-agnostic AOE item being locked behind one of the most annoying items to farm in the game, and a boss drop that needs to be mass-farmed by killing multiple of the same boss over and over again, but that isn't a problem with Fuelweaver itself. In my opinion, I want a pre-rift alternative to the weatherpain that has a more reasonable farming process to make lots of but some people view that itself as a "nerf" to fuelweaver so guess I'm out of luck o nthat.

[Primalflower]

14 minutes ago, Reiko24 said:

don't remember that. I remember the forum agreeing with each other that pillars are needed

i was very adamant that pillars shouldn't be a solution to earthquakes around when they were being discussed, but not out of any need for difficulty, i just didn't like the idea of gargantuan lightning rod-esque buildings to line every build with

[Reiko24]

3 minutes ago, cropo said:

He is fun for me, I am not on the "nerf AFW" side.

The only problem I have is not with Fuelweaver, but the availability of weather pains. The character-agnostic AOE item being locked behind one of the most annoying items to farm in the game, and a boss drop that needs to be mass-farmed by killing multiple of the same boss over and over again, but that isn't a problem with Fuelweaver itself. In my opinion, I want a pre-rift alternative to the weatherpain that has a more reasonable farming process to make lots of but some people view that itself as a "nerf" to fuelweaver so guess I'm out of luck o nthat.

So you are avoiding what I have said about the forumites. Alright.

I just checked like 20 pages of old beta posts and the post that was fitting your narrative about "toxic" people the most was this:

 

 

"In defense of boulders"

-Proceeds to say they are good for resource gathering BUT THEY NEED TO NOT DESTROY STUFF.

-People in the comments say that they need a support structure.\

 

 

Don't hate people for the sake of hating.

 

Edit: 

It seems like people that want the game to be easier hated the mechanic. So reverse of what you are saying about the forumites.

[cropo]

I am not going to go into a full investigation on debates and discussions on a topic completely unrelated to fuelweaver. Discussions that happened a whole year ago. I you don't want to believe me based on a couple of topics you can see then feel free to call me a liar.