Please let Winona have alignment damage increase/decrease

[Catapult 2.0]

Winona is currently the only character with a skill tree that does not have a faction bonus, which means she has one more disadvantage of lower attack and defense compared to other characters. Although the trebuchet has faction damage, the Trebuchet does not deal damage to many creatures (and Willow and Wurt have faction bonuses for both their own bodies and minions). Double alignments should be Winona's strength, not weakness. 

1. Winona has a bonus for each faction when she only clicks a faction's skill and does not click the other faction's skill. If both camps are clicked, they will have no bonus as they do now.
2. When Winona clicks the Founder's keepers Ⅱ skill or  Shadow Seeker Ⅱ skill, there is a bonus for the corresponding faction.
3. When Winona clicks Founder's keepers Ⅰ skill or  Shadow Seeker Ⅰ skill,  she has a bonus for the corresponding faction. She can have both faction bonuses.

[_zwb]

skill issue

seriously though is she not strong enough for you?

[MikoFanboy]

On 7/11/2024 at 11:22 PM, _zwb said:

skill issue

seriously though is she not strong enough for you?

by "she", you mean the Catapult?
if not then no

[_zwb]

1 hour ago, MikoFanboy said:

by "she", you mean the Catapult?
if not then no

if Winona is not considered powerful then idk what is

[MikoFanboy]

11 hours ago, _zwb said:

if Winona is not considered powerful then idk what is

Wolfgang, Wickerbottom, Wanda, Wigfrid, Wurt

lower you have Wx78, Wendy, Woodie, Wormwood,...

 

and again, by "she", you mean the Catapult?  

 

[Evelo]

1 hour ago, MikoFanboy said:

and again, by "she", you mean the Catapult?  

What is WX without theircircuits, Woodie without lucy and transformations, wendy without abigail, wickerbottom without her books, wurt without her Merms.
The catapults are a major part of winona.

[Zima Blue]

Sorry but in my opinion this doesn't make much sense, Winona is a builder not a fighter, she excells at her catapults doing the hard work for her. She's already extremely powerful where she is right now. 

[_zwb]

3 hours ago, MikoFanboy said:

Wolfgang, Wickerbottom, Wanda, Wigfrid, Wurt

lower you have Wx78, Wendy, Woodie, Wormwood,...

It seems that you didn't understand what I meant, I think Winona so powerful that all other characters seem weak in comparison. Is this clear enough?

3 hours ago, MikoFanboy said:

and again, by "she", you mean the Catapult?  

It's pretty obvious that Winona is a "she", and I was referring to Winona. As Evelo said, catapults should be taken into account when discussing Winona's power level.

[flamboyant wolf]

30 minutes ago, _zwb said:

It seems that you didn't understand what I meant, I think Winona so powerful that all other characters seem weak in comparison. Is this clear enough?

It's pretty obvious that Winona is a "she", and I was referring to Winona. As Evelo said, catapults should be taken into account when discussing Winona's power level.

Even without her catapults, Winona has both great utility and movement options, which makes her pretty good. 

[Cassielu]

I don't really care about the damage multiplier. But I think she should have player aligned tag.

It's just so inelegant to leave a character completely out of the system.

[MikoFanboy]

5 hours ago, Evelo said:

What is WX without theircircuits, Woodie without lucy and transformations, wendy without abigail, wickerbottom without her books, wurt without her Merms.
The catapults are a major part of winona.

Can you set up Wx's theircircuits, Woodie's lucy and transformations, Wendy's Abigail, Wurt's merm then switch to other character to use them? 

the only thing you might able to argue is Wicker book + Maxwell but then it limit to 2 characters instead of to everyone
Winona on her own has none 

the problem is you guy and klei view the catapults as her, making more half of her skill tree link to the catapults instead of her as a character

She is not powerful, her catapults (which doesn't requied her after you done setting it up) does

the only thing is is "good" now compare to older Winona is she can save resource early game by picking up her machine and move it (let also not mentioning the con of it taking too much inventory eveytime you want to move) but the older your world, the less useful it become because catapults are best to setup one and stay there 

You know what equal to "Winona is OP because of catapults?", it's "X character is OP because of 100 bunnyman follower with armor"

 

[Evelo]

4 hours ago, MikoFanboy said:

-snip-

Alright, practically everyone will disagree, but I won't kill you on this hill you want to die on. Take care now.

[cybers2001]

On 7/13/2024 at 8:57 AM, MikoFanboy said:

by "she", you mean the Catapult?
if not then no

If you're not using her catapults, you're playing her wrong.

6 hours ago, Cassielu said:

I don't really care about the damage multiplier. But I think she should have player aligned tag.

It's just so inelegant to leave a character completely out of the system.

Why is this necessary? Winona is in a unique spot compared to any other character because she has connections to both Wagstaff and Charlie.

[ShadowDuelist]

Winona more than compensates her lack of “physical” extra damage, as she can increase the DPS of the catapults by a lot: barrage, focused strike and planar strike (whatever alignment) are her unique bonus damage boosts.
If you have a skillful Winona in your team handling the catapults, they might deal about as much damage  (or maybe more?) than your average Wolfgang + unhandled default catapults. 

For the things that she can’t hurt with the catapults, most notably shadow creatures, I suppose that’s one extra hidden downside that can be worked around in many other ways.

[arubaro]

12 hours ago, MikoFanboy said:

Wolfgang, Wickerbottom, Wanda, Wigfrid, Wurt

lower you have Wx78, Wendy, Woodie, Wormwood,...

 

and again, by "she", you mean the Catapult?  

 

Why every character needs to be as strong as the strongers? A big part of having a fun character pool is having different levels of strength or should klei bufd wes to maxwell levels?

[cybers2001]

1 hour ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Winona more than compensates her lack of “physical” extra damage, as she can increase the DPS of the catapults by a lot: barrage, focused strike and planar strike (whatever alignment) are her unique bonus damage boosts.
If you have a skillful Winona in your team handling the catapults, they might deal about as much damage  (or maybe more?) than your average Wolfgang + unhandled default catapults.

With 2 shards + 1 pure brilliance, you can run 3 catapults with max planar strike spam. That's like 360 planar damage per second right there. Or you can do 5 catapults with some delay between attacks. Of course, you can always add more gemerators and even more catapults. Winona has the most insane scaling in the game right now.

[ZeRoboButler]

There is more of a lore reason as to why winona does not have alignment in the normal sense like other characters, The devs explicitly stated that since winona has connections to both sides, she isn't actually aligning with either. She receives aid from Charlie and Wagstaff both with intent to save her sister while also helping her boss/mentor (and possible inspiration for tinkering based off quotes) potentially bring brilliant inventions to the world. I suspect that other characters down the line could have similar abnormal connections, with Maxwell and Wanda receiving different bonuses for "alignment" or what ever it would be called specifically to them. 

In regards to the lack of a 10% boost/reduction for... at the end of the day, doesn't mean much. Winona is a mechanic/engineer whos concerns are working hard to build things up or finding ways to streamline or making things faster. You make teleporters to make travel easier and to transport items with ease, you make miniature robots to auto sort your items and collect resources easier, and you make catapults to accelerate boss fights, make farms for mobs and late game you can farm resources like trees and stone. 

This is not a combat character, This is an engineer that uses tech to solve her issues in the world, if you are focusing on 10% and are seeing this as a weakness with the strengths that she has despite this, I think your best bet is to pick another character who has it since this isn't what Winona is all about.    

[-Variant]

6 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

Why is this necessary? Winona is in a unique spot compared to any other character because she has connections to both Wagstaff and Charlie.

Whilst not necessary, it does just feel kinda weird.

Winona is the only character currently intentionally outright locked out of affinity perks, so the faction based extra damage, damage reductions, and smaller flavor stuff like hearing the shadow tools talk is just flat out impossible as Winona. 

Not the biggest deal but making a small handful of perks that apply to everyone that anyone can opt into and then plucking one of the bunch out of it does seem odd.

[Jakepeng99]

16 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

If you're not using her catapults, you're playing her wrong.

No

[cybers2001]

10 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

No

Yes

[Kevinnator]

She doesn't? That's so strange when I think every other character with a skill tree gets it. The boost is very small but still a neat bonus to have.

[chirsg]

This game isn't all combat. Winona can natively kill brightshades without getting hit even once without any rifts gear. 

She also has a teleport. Being combat centric doesn't always equate to being a good character. If we want to criticize anyone's playstyle, it should be wortox.

[Jakepeng99]

13 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

Yes

 

No, saying your playing her wrong for not wanting to use her catapults is no.

[cybers2001]

7 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

No, saying your playing her wrong for not wanting to use her catapults is no.

You can play her however you want. But if you refuse to use the weapon she's balanced around and then go to the forums and argue she's underpowered, then yes, you're wrong.

It would be like complaining that old Wanda is underpowered because she does below-average damage with tentacle spikes.